If you think we are the only intelligent life in the Universe, you are in idiot.

[Event]

True statement, when you think of the size of the universe. It's nearly impossible to fathom its size.

Chew on this: If the milky way is a average sized galaxy with its ~300,000,000,000 (300 billion) stars, and there are over 100,000,000,000 (100 billion) galaxies in the visible universe, thats 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (30 sextillion) stars in the VISIBLE universe.

Theres no way that theres not at LEAST 1 other star out there that has or had a planet orbiting it that has or had has intelligent life on it.

We'll never meet them without ripping a hole in space-time, but that doesn't mean they're not there.

 

[Tornado]

The title of this thread is ironic.
And I'd have to agree just because it makes sense. There doesn't seem to be a possible way for us to be the only intelligent life in universe simply because of its size.

 

[Zrow]

I've always wondered, what does Christianity say about this? Did God make the other planets generally the same way? Is this world he created supposedly just one of many?


I've always said, if we meet aliens and they mention some guy named Jesus, call me a convert.

 

[Mrs. Famine]

I can't bring myself to imagine anything but there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

In fact, part of me wonders how and why we can be described as intelligent life - especially the males amongst you

*runs away, very quickly*

 

[exigeracer]

thats 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (30 quadrillion) stars in the VISIBLE universe.

Wouldn't 30,000,000,000,000,000 be 30 qudrillion? Or are you measuring it in the British way, where they demand to mess things up in the name of individuality?

Theres no way that theres not at LEAST 1 other star out there that has or had a planet orbiting it that has or had has intelligent life on it.

Why do you presume they need a star to sustain life?

In general, science fiction depicts alien forms as human-like beings, even to the point of generalizing every one of them having optic nervous system as ours (eye).

 

[Tornado]

I can't bring myself to imagine anything but there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

In fact, part of me wonders how and why we can be described as intelligent life - especially the males amongst you

*runs away, very quickly*

I was tempted to say something along those lines.

 

[Danoff]

It depends on a few things.

1) How specific the conditions must be for life to initially form
2) How rarely those conditions arise
3) How rare intelligent life is given that life has formed

We don't know the answers to any of those questions. Personally, I expect that we'll find extraterrestrial life within our own solar system (soon), which would pretty much seal the deal in my mind that there would be intelligent life out there. But it's still largely an answered question. If you cook the numbers properly you can show either that there must be intelligent life out there, or there is almost certainly none.

NASA, specifically the portions of NASA concerned with non-manned spaceflight, has made finding the answers to these questions a main purpose of the space agency.

 

[Event]

Wouldn't 30,000,000,000,000,000 be 30 qudrillion? Or are you measuring it in the British way, where they demand to mess things up in the name of individuality?



Why do you presume they need a star to sustain life?

In general, science fiction depicts alien forms as human-like beings, even to the point of generalizing every one of them having optic nervous system as ours (eye).

Sorry, I meant 30 Sextillion.

Well, it's much easier to count stars than planets. There are countless asteroids out in the nothingness of space between stars, possibly. It would only improve the chances of life.

 

[ledhed]

Sex is good but SEXtillion is MUCH better.

 

[a6m5]

Sex is good but SEXtillion is MUCH better.

Other than that, there isn't much new stuff in this thread...... From the thread title, I was hoping for a bit more.

 

[niky]

It depends on a few things.

1) How specific the conditions must be for life to initially form
2) How rarely those conditions arise
3) How rare intelligent life is given that life has formed

We don't know the answers to any of those questions. Personally, I expect that we'll find extraterrestrial life within our own solar system (soon), which would pretty much seal the deal in my mind that there would be intelligent life out there. But it's still largely an answered question. If you cook the numbers properly you can show either that there must be intelligent life out there, or there is almost certainly none.

NASA, specifically the portions of NASA concerned with non-manned spaceflight, has made finding the answers to these questions a main purpose of the space agency.

I'm kinda pessimistic about that one. Sure, we'll keep finding organics... the widespread presence of organic material in the solar system is one possible reason why life flourished here, but current living organisms? Unless we've got the technology to hang probes for long periods of time in the Jovian atmosphere, it's a long shot.

The problem is... if there's so much intelligent life out there... where are the signs and signals? Statistically, the chances of human-level intelligence elsewhere ought to be good, but we have no proof yet of extraterrestrial signals. And they should be there... we've been radiating coherent signals into space for nearly a hundred years ourselves.

It's hard not to believe in extraterrestrial life, as science tells us it's possible, but it's kind of depressing to think that, given current evidence, an interspecies dialogue might never happen.

 

[Mark T]

If you look at the figures above there is a very good chance that there is other intelligent life out there.

I think you have to look at the conditions needed for life to be stable; Gravity, temperature, atmosphere, resources on the planet etc. The chances of another planet existing with the balance we have on Earth are slim.

I think there is other life out there in the form of bacteria.

 

[the Interceptor]

The problem is... if there's so much intelligent life out there... where are the signs and signals? Statistically, the chances of human-level intelligence elsewhere ought to be good, but we have no proof yet of extraterrestrial signals. And they should be there... we've been radiating coherent signals into space for nearly a hundred years ourselves.

True, but that means that our signals have only travelled almost 100 lightyears at best, which is kind of ridiculous in terms of distances to possible life out there. Our Galaxy measures 100.000 lightyears in diameter for example.

 

[TB]

Well, it's much easier to count stars than planets.

I recently saw an episode of NOVA where they described a new process for finding planets. They would focus on a star and then watch if it elongated indicating a gravitational force pulling on it, which they said indicated the existence of a planet. Then they had to find it. Just because they know a planet is there doesn't mean they can/will see it anytime soon.

That doesn't stop me from running SETI on my computer, though.

 

[FoolKiller]

I've always wondered, what does Christianity say about this? Did God make the other planets generally the same way? Is this world he created supposedly just one of many?


I've always said, if we meet aliens and they mention some guy named Jesus, call me a convert.

The Bible has always been a history of man's relationship with God, nothing else. If there is other life in the universe the Bible would never mention it purely because of its perspective alone. Whether extraterrestrial life would intefere with a Christian's belief will purely depend on their own thoughts on whether man is God's only little experiment in this vast universe.

It could also be said that in order to create man God had to create the universe and any other life could just be a side effect, which woudl then mean that they have no religion or concept of God, but doesn't disprovce his existence.

Some non-believers that think the Bible makes a good historical document have pointed to things as signs that extraterrestrial life has visited Earth in the past, such as a chariot in the sky. I've even heard the idea that Jesus was an alien.

I read an Anne McCaffrey book once (Freedom Trilogy?) where these all powerful aliens freed human slaves from their alien captors and when one of the humans says, "Jesus," one of the aliens says, "Is he not among you?"

Why do you presume they need a star to sustain life?

In general, science fiction depicts alien forms as human-like beings, even to the point of generalizing every one of them having optic nervous system as ours (eye).

Because life, as we know it, requires a star. We do not know if life can exist under extremely different circumstances or if we will find it one day as an entity just floating through the void, gobbling up planets.

Plus, every process we see requires radiation at some point and the greatest source for all this radiation are the stars. It would be safe to assume that any life that develops would have systems based on using this radiation in some way. "Visible" radiation will require life to have some form of optical system, even if it works on a different scale from ours.

I think you have to look at the conditions needed for life to be stable; Gravity, temperature, atmosphere, resources on the planet etc. The chances of another planet existing with the balance we have on Earth are slim.

Now you are being a planetist/atmospherist. You are assuming that all life must live like you. We have life on our own planet that thrives on different food and air sources. It is safe to assume that life could sprout on other planets that developed according to those conditions. As I stated above, we can't even assume that life will require a planet.

All we know is what it takes for us to exist.

 

[exigeracer]

Any scientologists here wishing to explain the real link between religion an otherworldly life? Ha!

 

[FoolKiller]

Any scientologists here wishing to explain the real link between religion an otherworldly life? Ha!

You must be referring to Xenu, ruler of the Galactic Confederacy.

In Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu) is an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of aliens to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.

 

[Danoff]

I'm kinda pessimistic about that one. Sure, we'll keep finding organics... the widespread presence of organic material in the solar system is one possible reason why life flourished here, but current living organisms? Unless we've got the technology to hang probes for long periods of time in the Jovian atmosphere, it's a long shot.

It's hard to know whether it's a long shot, because we don't know how specific the conditions are under which life can arise.

The problem is... if there's so much intelligent life out there... where are the signs and signals? Statistically, the chances of human-level intelligence elsewhere ought to be good, but we have no proof yet of extraterrestrial signals. And they should be there... we've been radiating coherent signals into space for nearly a hundred years ourselves.

A hundred years doesn't get you very far. And signal strength falls off rapidly with distance.

I think you have to look at the conditions needed for life to be stable; Gravity, temperature, atmosphere, resources on the planet etc. The chances of another planet existing with the balance we have on Earth are slim.

Who says we need the balance we have on Earth? We don't know how specific the conditions are under which life can take hold.

I think there is other life out there in the form of bacteria.

That's how we got started - basic-as-you-can-get organisms.

 

[a6m5]

The problem is... if there's so much intelligent life out there... where are the signs and signals? Statistically, the chances of human-level intelligence elsewhere ought to be good, but we have no proof yet of extraterrestrial signals. And they should be there... we've been radiating coherent signals into space for nearly a hundred years ourselves.

Crop Circles! j/k

Considering how HUGE the universe could be, I would guess that receiving any extraterrestrial signals, even accidentally would be very slim. Plus, I don't think hundred years or two isn't even close to the time we need to hunt for any alien transmissions.

If we were to have received such signal by now, it would've had to been headed to our direction, also in a very small window of like 50 years or more(? how long has SETI been around?). How about the frequencies, or do they even use same types of methods, technology that we use? And finally, if we did receive such signals, would it make it onto CNN, or Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones show up in black suits?

 

[exigeracer]

You must be referring to Xenu, ruler of the Galactic Confederacy.
[/IMG]

I've read up enough on that joke to have learned to not be able to take a single thing seriously from anyone who belives, practices or supports that whack-job "religion."

 

[Smallhorses]

The thing to bear in mind here, regarding the initial question, is the word intelligent.
There are many forms of life here on Earth, found in the most extreme conditions, for example the strange and random bacteria that thrive at ridiculous ocean depths, staggering temperatures and notriously toxic sulphur concentrations of ocean floor magma vents, but then you'd hardly describe something like that as intelligent. When was the last time you saw one of them paint the Sistine Chapel, launch a Space Shuttle or decode the Human Genome?
Now I'm no God-freak, nor do I have any problem with any person who holds a strong faith towards any particular resplendent being of any description either, but I do believe that there is a relatively strong connection between the formation of a concious brain, and the need to believe in something out there looking out for us. Humans are concious. Lots of us believe in a higher power of some sort. Humans have written books about it. Humans have had huge fallings-out over whose book is right?!!!!
Dolphins, Pigs, Giraffes, Amoeba, Crabs, Giant Sequoias, Millipedes or Penicillin have never had such arguments have they? Is it purely 'cos they're not "intelligent" or 'cos they're not concious and therefore don't care? Personally I'm more willing to accept that the Milliard Gargantubrain exists, than I am inclined to believe that any of the various far-fetched religious texts available offer the scantest grain of truth!
The Universe is an enormously vast and thusly scary place. The chances of life not existing anywhere else is, at best, minimal. But how to define life?
If life only begins when there are 2 eyes, 2 arms, legs, ears, lungs, and a brain capable of recognising all these things, then there's as much chance of a fat, ugly, guy with no money getting laid in a strip club, as there is of making contact with another race like that. If you define life as something which must be Carbon based and requiring sun (or starlight) to survive then you're in the same boat. However, if you're prepared to accept that life is whatever can make a living out of the somewhat rotten conditions offered to it anywhere, then life has as much probability of existing anywhere as George Clooney walking into an obsesity convention wearing a jacket constructed of $50 bills inscribed with "I shag fat chicks" and getting no takers!

 

[Danoff]

The Universe is an enormously vast and thusly scary place. The chances of life not existing anywhere else is, at best, minimal. But how to define life?

Life has a pretty clear definition. And we don't know what the chances of life existing anywhere else are. We think they're pretty good, but we don't know how rare life is. The chance could be anywhere between 99.9999% and 0.000001%

 

[niky]

Well... statistically speaking, it's nearly impossible that there's no other intelligent life out there... even if you consider that it takes a whole lot of evolutionary "accidents" to produce "intelligent" life... if, what we mean by "intelligent" is technological.

But the main point of my post, and my major beef is:

It's hard not to believe in extraterrestrial life, as science tells us it's possible, but it's kind of depressing to think that, given current evidence, an interspecies dialogue might never happen.

Given current evidence, there appears to be no sapient-made signals within local space. Thus, even if we do find signals from further away, meaningful dialogue most likely will never occur. And unless we find a way to break the laws of physics... neither will physical contact in the far-flung future... it just takes way too much energy to send humans out there... and it's too difficult to figure out a way to keep them alive (or even in a reasonably safe form of hibernation) for the timespan it would take to get anywhere.

All depressing... and lonely.

 

[a6m5]

Given current evidence, there appears to be no sapient-made signals within local space. Thus, even if we do find signals from further away, meaningful dialogue most likely will never occur. And unless we find a way to break the laws of physics... neither will physical contact in the far-flung future... it just takes way too much energy to send humans out there... and it's too difficult to figure out a way to keep them alive (or even in a reasonably safe form of hibernation) for the timespan it would take to get anywhere.

All depressing... and lonely.

I agree with that. We need to come up with such technology before we die out, or our planet dies.

 

[Danoff]

Well... statistically speaking, it's nearly impossible that there's no other intelligent life out there... even if you consider that it takes a whole lot of evolutionary "accidents" to produce "intelligent" life... if, what we mean by "intelligent" is technological.

While it is true that as the number of stars approaches infinity, the probability of intelligent life existing approaches 100%, don't pretend to know all of the variables.

We don't know how often life occurs, or however often intelligent life occurs. Until we do, we can't know how special we are. It's possible (unlikely, but possible) that intelligent species are a very rare event in the universe.

 

[Omnis]

They might be intelligent, but they don't celebrate Earth Day.

 

[mrnoname]

life on an other planet is 1 in a googleplex

 

[Danoff]

life on an other planet is 1 in a googleplex

...and how did you arrive at that precise figure?

 

[FoolKiller]

...and how did you arrive at that precise figure?

It is a number so large that it can only be found within the Google headquarters.

 

[Mrs. Famine]

It is a number so large that it can only be found within Famine's brain.