Is it unreasonable to not get my expectations up too much for the next Gran Turismo installment?

[nesa]

Ever since the release of GT6, which some may argue remains in the shadow of prior installments, along with the online SRF glitch that has been around for quite a while now in GT6 (which is probably worse than hacking, since it is blatant cheating for a select few but they won't get in trouble for enabling and using it)... it appears as though Polyphony Digital doesn't seem to care as much about the franchise as they once did. I have a feeling this will change with the release of GT Sport, but I could be wrong here. The ambiguous release of GT Sport and whether it is GT7 is also another factor.

 

[eran0004]

Ever since the release of GT6, which some may argue remains in the shadow of prior installments

While others may argue that it's the best Gran Turismo yet.

along with the online SRF glitch that has been around for quite a while now in GT6 (which is probably worse than hacking, since it is blatant cheating for a select few but they won't get in trouble for enabling and using it)... it appears as though Polyphony Digital doesn't seem to care as much about the franchise as they once did.

At what point in time did they fix bugs this late in a game's life cycle?

I have a feeling this will change with the release of GT Sport, but I could be wrong here. The ambiguous release of GT Sport and whether it is GT7 is also another factor.

The game is clearly GT Sport. And in what way is that a factor?

 

[nesa]

While others may argue that it's the best Gran Turismo yet.

Functionality wise, some would disagree though.

At what point in time did they fix bugs this late in a game's life cycle?

This bug has probably been around since early release. If someone gets caught hacking at this particular point, late in the game's cycle, I'd imagine they'd still get their playstation banned. How is this any different? People still buy games, such GT6, even late in their cycle. Not to mention that playing GT6 online is currently still open to the public.

The game is clearly GT Sport. And in what way is that a factor?

but why the name... when everyone was expecting GT7?

 

[eran0004]

Functionality wise, some would disagree though.

While others would not. So?

This bug has probably been around since early release. If someone gets caught hacking at this particular point, late in the game's cycle, I'd imagine they'd still get their playstation banned. How is this any different? People still buy games, such GT6, even late in their cycle. Not to mention that playing GT6 online is currently still open to the public.

And how long has the bug been known? This is the first time I've heard about it and I probably spend more time around here than PD.

Banning hackers and fixing bugs are not even remotely the same thing.

but why the name... when everyone was expecting GT7?

How is that relevant?

 

[FPV MIC]

And how long has the bug been known? This is the first time I've heard about it and I probably spend more time around here than PD.

A bit over a year ago it was reported, but others may have known about it for longer.
Activating SRF in some quick matches?

 

[eran0004]

A bit over a year ago it was reported, but others may have known about it for longer.
Activating SRF in some quick matches?

2.5 years into the game's life cycle.

 

[FPV MIC]

2.5 years into the game's life cycle.

Yes, I'm not making any point about it, just answering the bold bit, you did ask (not me, but I knew the answer).

 

[nesa]

While others would not. So?

Banning hackers and fixing bugs are not even remotely the same thing.

You need to give reasons on why you believe this.

How is that relevant?

Why would PD change the name to GT Sport?

2.5 years into the game's life cycle.

Are you saying that all those who posted in the thread that FPV MIC referred to are wrong, and there was no point in doing so since it has been 2.5 years into the game's life cycle?

 

[Thematic]

Why would PD change the name to GT Sport?

The name wasn't changed. It is clear the game is something different. In fact, if they did call it Gran Turismo 7, it might result in unhappy customers. People that do not follow the development at all.

 

[nesa]

The name wasn't changed. It is clear the game is something different. In fact, if they did call it Gran Turismo 7, it might result in unhappy customers. People that do not follow the development at all.

I'll quote Kazunori Yamauchi's very words on the matter: "Gran Turismo Sport" is indeed "Gran Turismo 7." It is like considering "Gran Turismo" 1 to 6 as a first generation era, and then GT Sport as a start of a new generation.

Question remains, why replace a successful and best selling series with a different name?

 

[kilesa4568]

He isn't changing the name. It's still Gran Turismo but with the big push into e-sports, which is long overdue, the "Sport" moniker makes perfect sense.

As for the SRF QM bug not getting fixed, that leaves me cold as the game is still current but they're not addressing the cheating they know is happening in it.

 

[nesa]

He isn't changing the name. It's still Gran Turismo but with the big push into e-sports, which is long overdue, the "Sport" moniker makes perfect sense.

But is it Gran Turismo number 7...

As for the SRF QM bug not getting fixed, that leaves me cold as the game is still current but they're not addressing the cheating they know is happening in it.

If it doesn't get fixed, how can we have faith that GT Sport and subsequent releases won't be prone to the same underlying issues. What is the point of continuing to participate in online matches when you know, the moment you step in, that you won't be on a level playing field.

 

[kilesa4568]

I think it's a primary release so yes, it's the 7th but that doesn't mean it has to have 7 in the title. It still has Gran Turismo in the title so saying either 7 or sport is just splitting hairs.

I'll be honest and say it's knocked my confidence in PD with them not patching such a rudimentary glitch but at the same time, I know they know about it and I can only hope they don't make the same mistake twice. Hopefully they won't leave SRF in the game though.

(I've given up on the QM's and think everyone who doesn't use the glitch should do the same. Set up a lobby race with a few trusted friends instead.)

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Ever since the release of GT6, which some may argue remains in the shadow of prior installments, along with the online SRF glitch that has been around for quite a while now in GT6 (which is probably worse than hacking, since it is blatant cheating for a select few but they won't get in trouble for enabling and using it)... it appears as though Polyphony Digital doesn't seem to care as much about the franchise as they once did. I have a feeling this will change with the release of GT Sport, but I could be wrong here. The ambiguous release of GT Sport and whether it is GT7 is also another factor.

The question posed in the Op contains a double negative, which is a bit confusing - one negative cancels out the other so the question is: "Is it reasonable to get my expectations up too much for the next Gran Turismo installment?"

My answer would be No - it is not reasonable to get your hopes up too much.

I don't see how we can have high expectations of Gran Turismo Sport. Based on what has been shown so far my expectations are very low.

I think that Polyphony Digital care greatly about the franchise (and presumably so do Sony), but for some reason they have got themselves in a right old mess and appear to be all at sea. They are falling further and further behind schedule with the release of Gran Turismo Sport and their current game - GT6 - is a country mile behind its next generation competitors in terms of sound and physics.

Yamauchi said (what seems like a very long time ago now) "No, they won't wait that long." I believe this was in reply to whether people would have to wait until 2017 for GTS.

Whether or not GTS is GT7? No - it doesn't appear to be - it appears to be a slimmed down, rebooted game focussing on E-Sports hence the word Sport in the title. For marketing reasons Yamauchi had to say something along the lines of "It's got so many new features that it could have been called GT7". But to misquote Christine Keeler "They would say that wouldn't they!"

 

[eran0004]

You need to give reasons on why you believe this.

No I don't, but if you say "please" I will gladly do that.

Why would PD change the name to GT Sport?

Change from what? It has always been GT Sport for as long as we've known about it.

Are you saying that all those who posted in the thread that FPV MIC referred to are wrong, and there was no point in doing so since it has been 2.5 years into the game's life cycle?

Wrong about what? You claimed that the bug not having been fixed was a sign that PD didn't care as much about the franchise as they once did. But for which previous game in the franchise did they fix bugs that popped up after 2.5 years?

 

[Aggserp4]

But for which previous game in the franchise did they fix bugs that popped up after 2.5 years?

Before GT5, there was no way for PD to fix glitches (except for releasing a new version of the game disc), and in GT5 I don't recall there being such a game-changing bug. Considering that they have delayed GT Sport so many times now there's no way to defend them just because the bug appeared late in the game's lifetime. Remember that GT6 is still the latest game in the series and they haven't even announced a release date for the next one. Not to mention they took their sweet time fixing the other bugs in the game (*cough* custom wheel glitch *cough*)

 

[eran0004]

Before GT5, there was no way for PD to fix glitches (except for releasing a new version of the game disc), and in GT5 I don't recall there being such a game-changing bug. Considering that they have delayed GT Sport so many times now there's no way to defend them just because the bug appeared late in the game's lifetime. Remember that GT6 is still the latest game in the series and they haven't even announced a release date for the next one. Not to mention they took their sweet time fixing the other bugs in the game (*cough* custom wheel glitch *cough*)

Which means that the argument that this bug indicates that they don't care as much as they once did is invalid.

 

[nesa]

Which means that the argument that this bug indicates that they don't care as much as they once did is invalid.

Nope once again. The fact that GT5 had no game-changing bugs of such magnitude to begin with, disproves your point.

 

[kilesa4568]

Which means that the argument that this bug indicates that they don't care as much as they once did is invalid.

Of course it's valid. They've got a current game that they're still supporting with new seasonal's and quick matches. The seasonal's are just an extension of the career mode but the quick matches are true multiplayer and they know that people are using a long standing bug to cheat with. It's a core game issue so it's likely been there from the very start of quick matches.

They know all about the SRF bug but they're refusing to fix it because they froze their code. That's the reason I was given. Does that sound like they care about the cheating going on?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't think there's any difference in how much Kaz and the rest care about the GT series now. It's just going off in a different direction that may suit some more than others. If anything, Kaz might be overestimating the strength of the fan's continuing connection and loyalty to the franchise through what many consider to be a couple of sub-par efforts for the series in GT5/6.

 

[cjr3559]

Nope once again. The fact that GT5 had no game-changing bugs of such magnitude to begin with, disproves your point.

It's QM, who cares. It's the worst online feature of GT6 hands down. God awful dirty smash up derby anyway when you're lucky enough to get a room with more than 3 drivers. Be happy PD throws credits at you just for participating.

Of course it's valid. They've got a current game that they're still supporting with new seasonal's and quick matches. The seasonal's are just an extension of the career mode but the quick matches are true multiplayer and they know that people are using a long standing bug to cheat with. It's a core game issue so it's likely been there from the very start of quick matches.

They know all about the SRF bug but they're refusing to fix it because they froze their code. That's the reason I was given. Does that sound like they care about the cheating going on?

Well, the Seasonal Events aren't exactly new, just updated. Hello Gilligan's Island.

I believe that PD cares enough about GT6 just to keep it running. I haven't expected updates any only minor fixes since the CM was released in late 2015.

 

[kilesa4568]

It's QM, who cares. It's the worst online feature of GT6 hands down. God awful dirty smash up derby anyway when you're lucky enough to get a room with more than 3 drivers. Be happy PD throws credits at you just for participating.

I care as it's the only online racing I did so with that viewpoint, it's definitely not the worst aspect of GT6's online side. The people who use cheats have that honour, and why would I be happy about credits when they've been bombarding us with them for so long? There's nothing left to spend them on.

Well, the Seasonal Events aren't exactly new, just updated. Hello Gilligan's Island.

I believe that PD cares enough about GT6 just to keep it running

They're still selling GT6 so a lot of those seasonal's are new to the people still buying the game, only to find the quickest gateway (QM) into online racing is rife with people cheating.

 

[eran0004]

Nope once again. The fact that GT5 had no game-changing bugs of such magnitude to begin with, disproves your point.

GT5 didn't even have Quick Match events. Hard for a game mode specific bug to appear in a game which doesn't have that game mode.

And if you seriously suggest that the presence of bugs is an indicator of "care" rather than system complexity then you don't know very much about software development.

Of course it's valid. They've got a current game that they're still supporting with new seasonal's and quick matches. The seasonal's are just an extension of the career mode but the quick matches are true multiplayer and they know that people are using a long standing bug to cheat with. It's a core game issue so it's likely been there from the very start of quick matches.

They know all about the SRF bug but they're refusing to fix it because they froze their code. That's the reason I was given. Does that sound like they care about the cheating going on?

No, because the argument is: "This bug indicates that PD doesn't care about the franchise as much as they used to". You can't make a comparison like that without having something to compare with.

 

[kilesa4568]

No, because the argument is: "This bug indicates that PD doesn't care about the franchise as much as they used to". You can't make a comparison like that without having something to compare with.

Ruling out the fact quick matches didn't exist in GT5, I'll point you to this news item:

What is clear is that, despite developing GT6 at present, PD are still supporting the community of GT5 gamers to keep the playing field level.

https://www.gtplanet.net/pd-take-action-against-illicitly-modified-game-data/

If you notice the date, you'll see the game was 2.5 years old when they said they were going to tackle the cheating in GT5 and they went as far as scanning game data to find those cheats. That was client side cheating used online. This is a basic single player driving option look up carrying over from the core game into the quick matches. There's no complexity in having a fresh driving options set up going into quick match each and every time.

It's laziness on their part to not address it and shows they couldn't give a monkey's about who's left playing GT6.

 

[eran0004]

Ruling out the fact quick matches didn't exist in GT5, I'll point you to this news item:



https://www.gtplanet.net/pd-take-action-against-illicitly-modified-game-data/

If you notice the date, you'll see the game was 2.5 years old when they said they were going to tackle the cheating in GT5 and they went as far as scanning game data to find those cheats. That was client side cheating used online. This is a basic single player driving option look up carrying over from the core game into the quick matches. There's no complexity in having a fresh driving options set up going into quick match each and every time.

It's laziness on their part to not address it and shows they couldn't give a monkey's about who's left playing GT6.

Why would they scan game data when it was the savefile that was hacked?

And what makes you think that it wasn't addressed? If you go to the thread you'll find that there was a server maintenance and that it improved the situation.

 

[nesa]

It's QM, who cares. It's the worst online feature of GT6 hands down. God awful dirty smash up derby anyway when you're lucky enough to get a room with more than 3 drivers. Be happy PD throws credits at you just for participating.

I disagree. Quick Match is the place that brings drivers of all skill levels together. What better way is there to learn or unwind? I'd rather lenient and fun than too strict and real, and no place shows this more than in Quick Match Events. It's the most enjoyable online feature for me.

GT5 didn't even have Quick Match events. Hard for a game mode specific bug to appear in a game which doesn't have that game mode.

GT5 had fairer online racing.

And if you seriously suggest that the presence of bugs is an indicator of "care" rather than system complexity then you don't know very much about software development.

Yes I do in fact. It's called debugging, and it requires an element of care.

No, because the argument is: "This bug indicates that PD doesn't care about the franchise as much as they used to". You can't make a comparison like that without having something to compare with.

No, this bug indicates that PD doesn't care about having fairer races with GT6.

And what makes you think that it wasn't addressed? If you go to the thread you'll find that there was a server maintenance and that it improved the situation.

The point here is that this bug is still there to be exploited, and nothing has currently been done to address this. So what message does this send to the online community? And also importantly, why are you defending such a bug?

 

[kilesa4568]

At what point in time did they fix bugs this late in a game's life cycle?

https://www.gtplanet.net/pd-take-action-against-illicitly-modified-game-data/

If you notice the date, you'll see the game was 2.5 years old when they said they were going to tackle the cheating in GT5 and they went as far as scanning game* data to find those cheats. That was client side cheating used online.

I said it was client side so obviously meant "save". Sorry for confusing you.

And what makes you think that it wasn't addressed? If you go to the thread you'll find that there was a server maintenance and that it improved the situation.

What??? That late in the game's life cycle? They were willing to tackle cheating so late on?

The bug is very simple. It looks up single player driving aids before going in to QM when it shouldn't. It's not rocket science.

@nesa I think you've got your answers. Going back and forth with eran is just flogging a dead horse. A total waste of time.

 

[nesa]

@nesa I think you've got your answers. Going back and forth with eran is just flogging a dead horse. A total waste of time.

Agreed.

 

[eran0004]

GT5 had fairer online racing.

Why do you think that and how is it relevant to this discussion?

Yes I do in fact. It's called debugging, and it requires an element of care.

Debugging doesn't magically make all bugs disappear. Neither does it magically detect all bugs.

No, this bug indicates that PD doesn't care about having fairer races with GT6.

How so?

nothing has currently been done to address this.

What's your source for that?

So what message does this send to the online community? And also importantly, why are you defending such a bug?

When did I defend the bug?

@kilesa4568 Feel free to stop talking whenever you want to. I'm not forcing you or anyone else to reply.

 

[Latin Avenger]

Nope! Franchise is washed up. They turned into cash cows. Find another sim game as me & my other 42 friends did. Save yourself the grief of disappointment. One former GT fan since it's original release.