Israel - Palestine discussion thread

60fpshacks
This is a real quote as well.
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It is (but has been quote-mined), and not only is the date wrong (Smith died in 1910), but it's also out of context and misrepresented.

Smith wasn't Jewish, quite the opposite, Professor Alan Mendelson described him as "the most vicious anti-Semite in the English-speaking world", and the quote you cited was part of a wider anti-semetic screed he wrote, which in full is "The Jewish objective has always been the same, since Roman times. We regard our race as superior to all humanity, and we do not seek our ultimate union with other races, but our final triumph over them."

en.wikipedia.org

Goldwin Smith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Scaff
It is (but has been quote-mined), and not only is the date wrong (Smith died in 1910), but it's also out of context and misrepresented.

Smith wasn't Jewish, quite the opposite, Professor Alan Mendelson described him as "the most vicious anti-Semite in the English-speaking world", and the quote you cited was part of a wider anti-semetic screed he wrote, which in full is "The Jewish objective has always been the same, since Roman times. We regard our race as superior to all humanity, and we do not seek our ultimate union with other races, but our final triumph over them."

en.wikipedia.org

Goldwin Smith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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I removed it.
 
donna nevel.png
 
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UKMikey
apnews.com

Israel strikes Iran's nuclear sites and kills top generals. Iran retaliates with missile barrages

Israel has launched blistering attacks on the heart of Iran’s nuclear and military structure, deploying warplanes and drones previously smuggled into the country to assault key facilities and kill top generals and scientists — a barrage it said was necessary before its adversary got any closer to bu
apnews.com apnews.com
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Well, well, well. Let's see how, "No New Wars" tackles this.
 
This feels like Israel is trying to undermine the US-Iran nuclear talks and Trump is too much of a dumbass to realize he's being played here. Trump thinks he can use the attacks to strong-arm Iran into making a nuclear deal with the US, but really, all it's going to do is cause Iran to give the US the finger because Trump is shouting about how the attacks will continue. While Iran isn't going to attack the US directly with conventional weapons, it's things like this that lead to another 9/11.

It's going to be slightly amusing when Israel gets the entire Middle East shooting at it and Trump goes "America first" and then doesn't bother to help. Either that or his bribe from the Qataris comes into play. Either way, I'm not sure Israel is prepared here for the US not to go in and bail them out again. Sure, we will continue to sell them weapons because there's a ton of money in that, but I'm not sure we will put boots on the ground here.
 
Joey D
This feels like Israel is trying to undermine the US-Iran nuclear talks and Trump is too much of a dumbass to realize he's being played here. Trump thinks he can use the attacks to strong-arm Iran into making a nuclear deal with the US, but really, all it's going to do is cause Iran to give the US the finger because Trump is shouting about how the attacks will continue. While Iran isn't going to attack the US directly with conventional weapons, it's things like this that lead to another 9/11.

It's going to be slightly amusing when Israel gets the entire Middle East shooting at it and Trump goes "America first" and then doesn't bother to help. Either that or his bribe from the Qataris comes into play. Either way, I'm not sure Israel is prepared here for the US not to go in and bail them out again. Sure, we will continue to sell them weapons because there's a ton of money in that, but I'm not sure we will put boots on the ground here.
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The talks don't seem to be going well and Trump once again feels he knows what he's doing. He doesn't.
 
Joey D
It's going to be slightly amusing when Israel gets the entire Middle East shooting at it and Trump goes "America first" and then doesn't bother to help.
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If there's one thing both halves of Capitol Hill agree on, it's unconditional support for Israel. Israel obviously operates with self-believing impunity directly because of this. I would be very surprised at the day the US turns its back on Israel, whether it's the right thing to do or not.
 
Joey D
This feels like Israel is trying to undermine the US-Iran nuclear talks and Trump is too much of a dumbass to realize he's being played here. Trump thinks he can use the attacks to strong-arm Iran into making a nuclear deal with the US, but really, all it's going to do is cause Iran to give the US the finger because Trump is shouting about how the attacks will continue. While Iran isn't going to attack the US directly with conventional weapons, it's things like this that lead to another 9/11.

It's going to be slightly amusing when Israel gets the entire Middle East shooting at it and Trump goes "America first" and then doesn't bother to help. Either that or his bribe from the Qataris comes into play. Either way, I'm not sure Israel is prepared here for the US not to go in and bail them out again. Sure, we will continue to sell them weapons because there's a ton of money in that, but I'm not sure we will put boots on the ground here.
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Unfortunately with Trump, when it comes to international policy, he always contradicts himself. "I'll end the war, day one. I'll be the peace maker. I'll make deals that benefit America".

He has been such a supporting mouth piece for Netanyahu since before the election was decided, I'm sure he will 100% try to push that getting involved in a war with Iran somehow also benefits "America First" & the cult will eat it up.
 
I'm all for the assholes in the Iranian government/military being cutleted but things could spiral very quickly into a mass casualty conflict like the Iran Iraq war. Netanyahu has this delusional fantasy about Iran being this hyper belligerent state intent on attacking anyone and everyone...but in reality that state is Israel...and almost entirely in the service of prolonging his own grip on power.

The attack seems to be very extensive and I'm not sure Iran can really even respond at this point, even if it wanted to. Hopefully that means there's a chance to de-escalate.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
I'm all for the assholes in the Iranian government/military being cutleted but things could spiral very quickly into a mass casualty conflict like the Iran Iraq war. Netanyahu has this delusional fantasy about Iran being this hyper belligerent state intent on attacking anyone and everyone...but in reality that state is Israel...and almost entirely in the service of prolonging his own grip on power.

The attack seems to be very extensive and I'm not sure Iran can really even respond at this point, even if it wanted to. Hopefully that means there's a chance to de-escalate.
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That's the risk I fear too. Netanyahu needs to be removed from power but by his own people. The entire attack seemed to be planned out like the Hezbollah pager attack but Netanyahu pushed the button to execute it. Once the coalition in Knesset collapses (and it will, not if), Bibi will be facing a likely jail sentence.
 
Blitz24
Once the coalition in Knesset collapses (and it will, not if), Bibi will be facing a likely jail sentence.
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What is his reputation and perception in Israel? It's not something you ever hear about in English-language media. In fact, you never hear anything about domestic Israel, only geopolitical Israel.
 
Liquid
What is his reputation and perception in Israel? It's not something you ever hear about in English-language media. In fact, you never hear anything about domestic Israel, only geopolitical Israel.
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They don't like him a lot. The government was actually about to lose its majority hold as of last week as the far-right bloc was threatening to remove their support for him. Having exemptions for them from military service (among other things) is a divisive issue. I think I had heard that if the coalition fell apart last week, he'd easily lose an election. In some ways, this attack is good for him as Israel is going to be hesitant to have an election during an active war.
 
The loss of Hossein Salami, Commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, is bad news for Iran - no matter how you slice it.
 
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Blitz24
They don't like him a lot. The government was actually about to lose its majority hold as of last week as the far-right bloc was threatening to remove their support for him. Having exemptions for them from military service (among other things) is a divisive issue. I think I had heard that if the coalition fell apart last week, he'd easily lose an election. In some ways, this attack is good for him as Israel is going to be hesitant to have an election during an active war.
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It's probably a big part of why Netanyahu will do anything to keep the conflicts going. If things get peaceful he's going to be out on his toches, and then he's probably in danger from all the people who want him locked up for genocide. He will probably walk us all into WW3 rather than step down, and that's very dangerous.
 

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edition.cnn.com

“When Israel launched its series of strikes against Iran last week, it also issued a number of dire warnings about the country’s nuclear program, suggesting Iran was fast approaching a point of no return in its quest to obtain nuclear weapons and that the strikes were necessary to preempt that outcome.

But US intelligence assessments had reached a different conclusion – not only was Iran not actively pursuing a nuclear weapon, it was also up to three years away from being able to produce and deliver one to a target of its choosing, according to four people familiar with the assessment.”

Israel government lying? Shocking.

The speculation about US strikes on the nuclear facilities is also concerning to a Brit. As I understand it those aircraft would be operating from US bases on British territory - we really don’t need Trump and Netanyahu dragging us into this conflict.
 
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This is only tangentially related to nuclear weapons. Hamas and Hezbollah are flattened, Syria is rebuilding, the Houthis have been minimized, Russia is distracted, and Iran's air defenses were taken out in the prior operation - almost none of these conditions were going to remain static. Netanyahu saw a window to take down the Ayatollah, most likely still involving the US being dragged in, and invented a pretext to start the operation. This was never going to be a limited operation to prevent the Islamic Republic from acquiring a nuclear weapon, it was about removing the Islamic Republic. What Netanyahu has done now is created a condition where the regime has to be eliminated...if they don't it's abundantly clear that they will have to develop nuclear weapons. This was Bibi's trap for Donald Trump, because he's too stupid to realize it, and I'm afraid its too far along now to stop...the US will be partaking in nation building once again...
 

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