Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

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Kaz says the standards are going to be in GT7. Is this a deal breaker for you?

  • If standards are in GT7, I'm out.

    Votes: 171 19.5%
  • I will buy GT7 regardless.

    Votes: 498 56.9%
  • On the fence, I'll wait for the reviews and then decide.

    Votes: 206 23.5%

  • Total voters
    875
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Lets be honest here, guys. This thread may have a lot of voters (700+ currently) but that doesn't come close to even being in the 1 percentile of total gran turismo buyers. Even if GT7 was the worst selling game in its franchise, itd be around 2 million-3 million in sales. All of GTPlanet voting (~240,000 members) would be around 10 percent. This site is big, and its characters even bigger, but lets not fool ourselves these polls are a basis for the whole of Gran Turismo's buyers.
 
True indeed. If you take a look in Eurogamer and IGN's comment section, people are angry about this, outraged that PD idiotically desided to keep these garbage assets.
All the more reason why I have a good hunch on this.

There has been negative feedback about standards since before GT5 even released. You would hope they would notice the decline in sales and get the hint, but now we are going on GT7 and still standards.
That's true, but there was less of it for GT5 & 6 I think since there were people more leant due to the PS2 cars being only 1 generation behind and the car list wasn't as big at the time otherwise. Now though, with the PS2 models being possible for a PS4 game, I think the negative feedback will explode to a point where PD will feel like they have no choice, but to drop the PS2 cars. Especially since there's no need for them due to the 500-600 high quality cars possible for GT7.
 
All the more reason why I have a good hunch on this.


That's true, but there was less of it for GT5 & 6 I think since there were people more leant due to the PS2 cars being only 1 generation behind and the car list wasn't as big at the time otherwise. Now though, with the PS2 models being possible for a PS4 game, I think the negative feedback will explode to a point where PD will feel like they have no choice, but to drop the PS2 cars. Especially since there's no need for them due to the 500-600 high quality cars possible for GT7.
Its a lose / lose situation. If they drop cars and release it with less cars than GT6 that's bad (F5). If they keep in standards again that's also bad. What they need to do is FINISH the game with all premium cars before releasing. And that would take many years since they can only produce about 200 premiums every 2-3 years.
 
Its a lose / lose situation. If they drop cars that's bad (F5). If they keep in standards again that's also bad. What they need to do is FINISH the game with all premium cars before releasing. And that would take many years since they can only produce about 200 premiums every 2-3 years.
For sure it is, but it has been said before many times in this forum that the Forza 5 method is the best of the 2 bad decisions; consistancy & quality is better than quantity.

Also, I disagree with your second statement, I don't want to wait several years for another GT title again like GT5 just to see every PS2 car remodeled. It's better if PD only remodels a few of the more popular PS2 cars such as the e46 M3 & Mk.4 Supra.
 
For sure it is, but it has been said before many times in this forum that the Forza 5 method is the best of the 2 bad decisions; consistancy & quality is better than quantity.
And I am pretty sure F5 has been the lowest selling game of the series. I am not positive, but I know the sales have not been doing that well. It is also the lowest rated game of the series. So clearly removing the majority of the cars and tracks is not the answer.
 
What they need to do is FINISH the game with all premium cars before releasing. And that would take many years since they can only produce about 200 premiums every 2-3 years.

They don't need to model all cars to premium, just make them look "OK" at first place. Like the RUF's in GT6.
 
I really want to say if standards are in GT7, then I won't buy it. However, if I can't use my Fanatec wheel on the PS4, then I'll jump to A/C and PCars on PC exclusively and drop GT like a bad habit and only reminisce about the good ol' GT1-4 days.


Jerome
 
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I thought some people hated blindly pro-GT Toko.
People certainly did. Acting the same way as before, except now you hate everything that PD does unilaterally (see: Bringing up how ugly the Nissan Vision GT was as a complete non-sequitur in multiple threads) makes it so in practice you have very little difference from the people mentioned here:
Ugh seeing those who will defend everything PD does, even standard cars, is really starting hurting my head thinking if this is reality...
FACEPALM.gif
All I'm going say is, is that PD will never learn anything at all if we just blindly accepted everything they do right or wrong, ESPECIALLY the wrong.

Wake up already.
Tell me: How much are PD going to "learn" if everything they did was met with rage? Not even specifically targeted complaints, but rambling scattershot anger.



I actually like the way I am nowadays, especially having to be realistic and not felt for PD's traps of disappointment. :sly:
There's a bit more to being a realist than loudly stating how proud you are to be burning a GT effigy and how awesome it is going to be when everyone else stops liking the series like you already have. And contrary to what Imari said earlier, it only counts as vindication when you actually forward an argument to begin with. In that respect, "bandwagoning" was the most important word of that sentence.
 
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There should be option that says "I want standards in gt7" because that is option I would pick

I understand there is no way they have the time to remodel all those standards so im happy to have those cars in gt7. Even use them as traffic on maybe a highway course or public road course

And for the times ive used cockpit view on a standard, it was surprisingly good, i barely noticed the difference in actual game situation
 
Haha not if you didn't link to the post. I'm genuinely shocked. Especially so close to the game actually coming out. I always assumed GT6 would sell 4-5 million copies MAX...I guess I just figured everybody else did to? Maybe that's why I'm so much less dissapointed with GT6? I bought the game and pretty much got what I was expecting.

I'm probably about as pessimistic as you can get and I expected a backlash from the GT5 fiasco, but I expected 7-8 million at worst.

If somebody told me GT6 would sell less that 5 million, I would have said "I sort of hope so, that will be a real kick up the behind!" and then added "But it will never happen".

In the end, it does actually appear to have happened, and it's not much of a kick up the behind.
 
I really want to say if standards are in GT7, then I won't buy it. However, if I can't use my Fanatec wheel on the PS4, then I'll jump to A/C and PCars on PC exclusively and drop GT like a bad habit and only reminisce about the good ol' GT1-4 days.


Jerome
It looks like apart from Thrustmaster nobody else is keen on making quality wheels for current gen or making the old ones compatible.
 
I'm probably about as pessimistic as you can get and I expected a backlash from the GT5 fiasco, but I expected 7-8 million at worst.

If somebody told me GT6 would sell less that 5 million, I would have said "I sort of hope so, that will be a real kick up the behind!" and then added "But it will never happen".

In the end, it does actually appear to have happened, and it's not much of a kick up the behind.
Kind of ironic that you and I were were fairly positive about GT6 sales, you would have said 8 million, I did say 10 million+, and yet @ironman44321 expected only 5 million. Not sure what to make of that:lol:
 
And I am pretty sure F5 has been the lowest selling game of the series. I am not positive, but I know the sales have not been doing that well. It is also the lowest rated game of the series. So clearly removing the majority of the cars and tracks is not the answer.
Here's the thing though; FM5 got bad feedback for losing most of their content is because the cars on FM4 didn't have much of a graphical difference from the FM5 cars. They would probably still look fine on FM5, but the GT4 cars on GT7 will not; the graphical difference is huge between the PS2 & PS3 cars.

Also, I'll reiterate; GT7 is going to up to 600 cars with the premium car detail and that's close to GT4's car count. I don't think people are going to complain so much about PD dropping their cars like Turn 10 did and if they do; then the fanbase officially has lost their minds.
 
By the time GT7 hits, there will be even more gaming choices on the market, I like the GT series but I can do without standards personally, and if the sounds are not significantly upgraded I will most likely take a pass. Of the cars that I own ( less than 100),I probably drive maybe 25% of them on a regular basis. So no I would not miss the standards. Would it make sense to gradually convert a number of them over? Everybody has an opinion on the subject so to each his own. The sounds keep me from playing more. On the plus side, the tracks, weather and time changes are a winner.

When the competition is dropping what they consider to be subpar content (Forza) so as to bring it back fully upgraded, I scratch my head that the powers that be at Polyphony are so entrenched and hellbent on keeping content that is ,excuse the pun, below standard. I love the GT series, but can't agree with the decision to keep standards, unless of course the begin to upgrade them.
 
I know everyone has got and opinion on this but we just have to wait and see what PD does with the standard cars If they upgrade them or not and you would think with the standard cars on PS4 they would be a lot better than on PS3, this is just and 💡.
 
And I am pretty sure F5 has been the lowest selling game of the series. I am not positive, but I know the sales have not been doing that well. It is also the lowest rated game of the series. So clearly removing the majority of the cars and tracks is not the answer.

It was also a launch title for a system with a much smaller install base to its predecessors. Some reviewers did express a desire for more cars and tracks - but as far as I am aware, nobody asked for generation-old assets that were visually and functionally behind the rest of the product.
 
I buy 300 standards and I even don't use it all! All of the standards is in the stockyard! I buy and use premiums only for now! The standards are my backup plan if my whole garage is error! I will always buying Gran Turismo forever since I believe the franchise will always do better in the future! Go Gran Turismo!
 
It was also a launch title for a system with a much smaller install base to its predecessors. Some reviewers did express a desire for more cars and tracks - but as far as I am aware, nobody asked for generation-old assets that were visually and functionally behind the rest of the product.
And honestly people are forgetting that GT5 launched with just 200 premium cars - same as Forza 5, except one came 3 years into console's life and the other one is a launch title. And since launch FM5 has added 3 tracks for free and 100+ cars through DLC.
 
And I am pretty sure F5 has been the lowest selling game of the series. I am not positive, but I know the sales have not been doing that well. It is also the lowest rated game of the series. So clearly removing the majority of the cars and tracks is not the answer.

That's not necessarily the case, because GT3.

And anyway, the opposite is hardly true either, GT6 is the lowest selling and rated GT, and that has the most tracks and cars of anything.

I think it's a lose:lose. You simply cannot win for that first game on a new system. Either you cut content and get hammered for it (the GT3 model), or port content and get hammered for it (the GT5 model). Bar something weird happening like GT3 turning into the best selling GT ever, which I suspect was an outlier due to a bunch of weird stuff going on.

The difference comes later on. In the second game on the new system, the GT3 model with all new content will be building back up to good levels of content, and high quality content at that. The advantages of having all high level assets start to become clear. You end up with a game like GT4, debatably the high point of all Gran Turismos.

In the second game on the new system the GT5 model runs into the same problem that they had with the first. However much high quality content they put in, they're still going to be pummelled for including old assets. You end up with a game like GT6, debatably the low point of all Gran Turismos.

The problem now is that they're on the back foot. Usually that second game on a system is the one that really establishes the power of the brand, so they can afford to suck up the hit with a slightly underwhelming first game on the next system. Polyphony have fluffed that, they're underwhelming right now and they need the first game on the new system to be a massive hit to undo the damage they've done to the brand with GT5 and GT6.

Sadly, that's not one of the options. I think it's doable though, they're not light on content really. They have ~400 premium cars (yes, less if you count them like a normal person). They *should* be able to make a couple hundred more between now and the release of GT7. ~500-600 cars is very, very high, if the list is well selected. See the car list for FM4 for examples.

If I was them, I'd stick to premium content only and go really, really hard on blockbuster features. The game needs a course maker and it needs to be AWESOME. It needs the world's most robust and diverse online ecosystem. It needs an entirely new paradigm for single player that makes everyone sit up and take notice. It needs something that has never been seen in a racing game before that will make it walk off the shelves because people just have to try it.

They're never going to wow people with what can be done with 15 year old assets. The way out is forward, not by doubling down on what worked in the past.
 
I know everyone has got and opinion on this but we just have to wait and see what PD does with the standard cars If they upgrade them or not and you would think with the standard cars on PS4 they would be a lot better than on PS3, this is just and 💡.

That said, we all haven't even seen what the standards will look like in GT7. For all we know the worst looking standards are comparable to the semi-premium models like the Rufs. (Not saying they are)

I buy 300 standards and I even don't use it all! All of the standards is in the stockyard! I buy and use premiums only for now! The standards are my backup plan if my whole garage is error! I will always buying Gran Turismo forever since I believe the franchise will always do better in the future! Go Gran Turismo!

That's the spirit!
 
If they upgrade them or not and you would think with the standard cars on PS4 they would be a lot better than on PS3, this is just and 💡.
Why would I think that? There was nothing about GT5 and GT6 being on the PS3 that was limiting how good ported PS2 assets looked. Simply being on the PS4 isn't going to make them look any better unless they upgrade them.
 
That said, we all haven't even seen what the standards will look like in GT7. For all we know the worst looking standards are comparable to the semi-premium models like the Rufs. (Not saying they are)
That's right we haven't even seen what the standards will look like in GT7.
 
People certainly did. Acting the same way as before, except now you hate everything that PD does unilaterally (see: Bringing up how ugly the Nissan Vision GT was as a complete non-sequitur in multiple threads) makes it so in practice you have very little difference from the people mentioned here:

Well I still don't really like the Nissan VGT though, so I'll put that aside. So what do I need to be? Only be positive all the time? Well I tried but, I'm just not happy with the direction PD is taking the series, and them taking forever on certain things, like features. Let me guess, I'll have to move on?
Tell me: How much are PD going to "learn" if everything they did was met with rage? Not even specifically targeted complaints, but rambling scattershot anger.
They still won't learn a thing, lol. :sly:
There's a bit more to being a realist than loudly stating how proud you are to be burning a GT effigy and how awesome it is going to be when everyone else stops liking the series like you already have. And contrary to what Imari said earlier, it only counts as vindication when you actually forward an argument to begin with. In that respect, "bandwagoning" was the most important word of that sentence.
Wrong. I still love the series, but I don't like PD and their design choices.
 
That's not necessarily the case, because GT3.

And anyway, the opposite is hardly true either, GT6 is the lowest selling and rated GT, and that has the most tracks and cars of anything.

I think it's a lose:lose. You simply cannot win for that first game on a new system. Either you cut content and get hammered for it (the GT3 model), or port content and get hammered for it (the GT5 model). Bar something weird happening like GT3 turning into the best selling GT ever, which I suspect was an outlier due to a bunch of weird stuff going on.
I think that GT3 was very lucky, PS1 was a massive success for a new player on the market, and then the hype for PS2 was through the roof, people treated Dreamcast like it was Saturn 1.5, they were blown away by PS2 tech demos which painted an image of PS2 being a massive leap even over DC in graphics, let alone PS1. GT 2000 impressed people a lot as well. PS2 didn't have any real competition at that point, and same goes for GT3. It was way above anything seen before in the racing genre. When it came it was the go to realistic racing game, people had no options, the high and consistent quality of the game helped a lot as well, so people bought the game, recommended it to their friends, etc. Today such success simply can't be replicated, people have heaps of options on a wide variety of platforms and a wide range of prices. While PS4 is leading in the market, it's not really humiliating Xbone or WiiU like PS2 did with Dreamcast. It might seem ridiculous now, but PS2 was the only alive console for a whole year and PS2 library is really unmatched by any console in history and chances are it will never be surpassed. So back on topic, with the amount of games being released in the racing genre today and simracing in particular GT is quickly falling behind competition and loses mindshare by employing questionable design decisions like standard cars and tracks.
 
I know everyone has got and opinion on this but we just have to wait and see what PD does with the standard cars If they upgrade them or not and you would think with the standard cars on PS4 they would be a lot better than on PS3, this is just and 💡.

Funny thing is, when we got the first inklings of standards for GT5, this is exactly what a lot of people were saying. They'll be touched up, they'll be better, they couldn't possibly be straight out of GT4 because that would be just silly. They'll at least go through and smooth over some of the rough edges so that they don't look out of place, even if they are only single part models.

And yet PD ported the vast majority of the models directly from GT4, untouched.

If they're comfortable doing that from PS2 to PS3, I don't see why it would bother them now to port models directly from PS2 to PS4.
 
So what do I need to be?
"Acting the same way as before" was the key bit of that sentence. jimipitbull has alluded to it in the past quite a few times of late, but I'll be more blunt about it: Abruptly deciding that you're now fanatically and loudly anti-PD in any and all contexts doesn't win you any more popularity points than when you were fanatically and loudly pro-GT in any and all contexts. In fact, the main difference between the Toko of two months ago and the Toko of now is that now it's harder to actually argue a point against some design direction of the series when it's latched onto by someone else as a way to express how awesome it is going to be when GT7 is a sales bomb because of it.



Put another way, no one would start taking potshots at amar if he expressed himself the same way as he does now but decided that he no longer liked the series' direction; because the specificity of his viewpoints isn't why he garners the respect he does.
 
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Kind of ironic that you and I were were fairly positive about GT6 sales, you would have said 8 million, I did say 10 million+, and yet @ironman44321 expected only 5 million. Not sure what to make of that:lol:

Secretly I'm the most negative person on GTP hahaha :D

But to be serious I actually think my lower expectations are probably why I'm less dissapointed in the game than others.
 
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