Kazunori Yamauchi Responds to Gran Turismo 7 Fan Outrage

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590
Sweden
Stockholm
Regarding the high end cars.For example,i wanted the Mclaren F1 and the Porsche 917K what are my options to buy them?Just doing races isnt going to provide the credits is it,the economy is poor and no matter how you word it there is a problem.Im not paying MTX to buy them so its a very long slog to gain enough credits.Theres a difference between having enough credits for a race car or two and having enough credits for cars that you actually want.If you cant see it or dont want to thats fine,we all have our own opinions on it and i will not force anybody to accept mine.Regarding wether to believe Kaz or not will remain to be seen,his comments about not grinding are out there.II`ve had a good discussion with you about and enjoyed the points you made.👍
Ah yeah those would be the most expensive cars. I thought we were talking about things in the 3 million range. Right now it's a slog to get those 18-20 million cars but that's something I expect will change with the additional content. I'm also assuming that the cars we haven't seen yet won't be more expensive than 20 million, if the new cars come out costing 30 million things would be very different for sure! I think I've said it in here but I'll say it again for good measure, I believe Kaz/PD intend to make the best of things and I expect the new events and changed sport mode payouts to be reasonable. However there's always the possibility that isn't the case, that they don't turn up sport mode payouts enough and that the new events end up being even less efficient than the current set of races in terms of credits per hour, in which case I am going to revise my opinion about the state of the game's economy accordingly. I've enjoyed discussing things with you too (and a few other people in here). Disagreeing just means disagreeing 👍
 
2,219
United States
Tennessee
NoStopN
The main cause of GTS's streamlined car collection is simply because it gave you a car every day for driving a few laps. That also allows you to save your credits for the cars you really want/need. In contrast, I've never won a car from GT7's roulette. In fact 99% of the time I've won the lowest reward, the 5000 credits.

Yeah I do like collecting and driving all the cars in GT. Each one has a unique personality. But when we're talking about racing in Sport mode, there's also a pragmatic reason to want a lot of cars available quickly.
I suppose I have been spoiled by the GT7 roulette wheel. I've won several cars (Scirocco, 2 BMW i3s, & more). Also, the lowest credit payout on the wheel is 2K. So, at least you haven't gotten the lowest reward from the wheel. :D
No one is saying they don't want to drive the cars or play the game, no one is saying it shouldnt take a bit of time to afford the most expensive cars, they're saying it takes too long without the use of MTX's.
It's taking some time to build credits & save for what you want, but I don't feel like I have to have all cars either now or ever. I've never bought/owned all of the cars in any GT title. And I'm ok with that. Prior to playing on Sunday, I hadn't played in 2 weeks. What this sounds more like is a case of human psychology than game development. Also, still haven't "given in" to PD & made an MTX.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,882
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
It's taking some time to build credits & save for what you want, but I don't feel like I have to have all cars either now or ever. I've never bought/owned all of the cars in any GT title. And I'm ok with that. Prior to playing on Sunday, I hadn't played in 2 weeks. What this sounds more like is a case of human psychology than game development. Also, still haven't "given in" to PD & made an MTX.
Indeed, there's a big element of psychology involved in the presentation of MTX's in GT7. The majority of people will be expected to ignore or rarely use them, bit those with a certain type of addictive personality will make up a good 80%, they're known as Whales and they spend fortunes on MTX's in games if they can be hooked.

Again, I don't see anyone asking for all the cars this early on. But it could take the average gamer over 5 years to afford all of the cars in the base game. There's clearly some balancing issues there, be it due to insufficient prize cCr, not enough events, too highly priced cars or a combination of. That's not to say there won't be anyone that enjoys it balanced the way it is, but the majority appears to feel otherwise.
 
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590
Sweden
Stockholm
Indeed, there's a big element of psychology involved in the presentation of MTX's in GT7. The majority of people will be expected to ignore or rarely use them, bit those with a certain type of addictive personality will make up a good 80%, they're known as Whales and they spend fortunes on MTX's in games if they can be hooked.
Yeah everywhere I've seen people discuss actual figures for MTX, it's always a small-ish single digit percentage of spenders who spend a disproportionate amount of money. And usually only a small portion of the total playerbase who spend any money at all. It varies a little bit with genre and what form the MTX takes, games who do mostly/only cosmetic MTX (like Fortnite or Path of Exile) usually has more people paying than a game who is pay-to-unlock-quicker which is quite interesting when you think about it.
 
242
United States
United States
I feel like I was rushed in a way. I wanted the Enzo, so getting the Ferrari Invite was really nice. But there are 3 Ferraris that require an invite so I missed out on 2 of them. I've worked on tuning Enzo's in every GT they've been in so I was excited.

Then I got an invite from Pagani. I'm not a huge Pagani fan but I do like the Hyuara (and those colors OMG) but as the days ticked by we got a free $1mil, I got $.5mil for a wheel so I grabbed it before the thing expired. I never know when I'll get those other two Ferrari's to complete my Ferrari Collection.

I had about $4.5mil left waiting for the 787B to come.

Then I get an invite from Lamborghini. I dont even want the Veneno '14, and it's way overpriced. Then the CLK LM came out, and I wanted a unique Gr2 race car.

I farmed some and grabbed the Mercedes. Now i have $750,000 and I'm sitting here hoping the 787B dont come out till a week or so after this supposed credit upgrade comes out.

Wish invites were more reliable. I wouldn't have bought that Pagani. Also, if I get another Ferrari invite now, I can't afford the 787B and the K XXR.

I'm fine with this kind of forced exclusivity right now. However, if a few months down the line, I still dont have a full Ferrari Garage AND the 787B then there is a serious problem for a game that partially sells us on the idea of playing with cars that we can't own in real life.
 
11,342
United States
Chicago, iLL
GTP_Nismo
I feel like I was rushed in a way. I wanted the Enzo, so getting the Ferrari Invite was really nice. But there are 3 Ferraris that require an invite so I missed out on 2 of them. I've worked on tuning Enzo's in every GT they've been in so I was excited.
The invite is good for all the cars from that MFR til it expires. It's not limited to 1 car per invite.
 
840
France
Concarneau
Lomic2
Indeed, there's a big element of psychology involved in the presentation of MTX's in GT7. The majority of people will be expected to ignore or rarely use them, bit those with a certain type of addictive personality will make up a good 80%, they're known as Whales and they spend fortunes on MTX's in games if they can be hooked.
Why annoy all the player base to appeal only to a small minority ? Make something desirable to the whales without rendering the economy horrendous for everyone.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,882
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
Why annoy all the player base to appeal only to a small minority ? Make something desirable to the whales without rendering the economy horrendous for everyone.
Because that small minorty of people pay the majority of money. As much as some people are happy with the economy as it is, the whole thing is a cash grab, it's just about grabbing the right peoples cash. Whereas most people won't pay anything (or will pay very little) in MTX's and were expected to just get on with it. The backlash however has been significant, so let's see how it develops in the coming weeks and months.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,882
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
That's why I said :
Like i said further along, the rest of the people were expected to just get on with it, but the backlash has been significant. To expand on that, I think the backlash has caught them completely off guard and gained a lot more traction than expected with the number of influencers jumping on board and the review bombing on metacritic it became an issue that they can't really afford to ignore for too long.

Also, there's a science in presenting the MTX's in the way that they have, but it's just pushed them too far for a AAA £70 title which has created a lot of the agression towards them in GT7.
 
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242
United States
United States
The invite is good for all the cars from that MFR til it expires. It's not limited to 1 car per invite.
Sorry I wasnt clear. I know i could have bought all 3. I wanted to have save a big chunk of what I had for the 787B.

However, I wanted to make the point that I did that. Because that is partly what led me to buy the Pagani, since I was feeling regret for not getting all 3.

Like i said, I felt rushed to buy them. And then you're left with no money. Then a car you want comes up on the LCD. And the cycle continues.

Again, this forced exclusivity is fine for now. But not in 3 or 4 months.
 
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regnar

Senior Member
Premium
1,601
United States
Florida, USA
red95gts
Desman1982
Two things with the Legend Cars, instead of limited stock showing, there needs to be a counter, counting down the days, hours, minutes until the car is no longer purchasable and Just like a real auction,
not just the knowing what cars are on the floor, there needs to be a list of 8-10 cars coming up next. This would give the player more to plan out what they want to buy, instead of always being rushed.

Personally I would do away with the auction, and just have the cars always available, though there price might change day to day.
 
2,219
United States
Tennessee
NoStopN
Indeed, there's a big element of psychology involved in the presentation of MTX's in GT7. The majority of people will be expected to ignore or rarely use them, bit those with a certain type of addictive personality will make up a good 80%, they're known as Whales and they spend fortunes on MTX's in games if they can be hooked.
And this is the reason why it's good to be a small fish in a big pond.
 

Touring Mars

ツーリング マルス
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25,885
Scotland
Glasgow, Scotland
GTP_Mars
When it comes to the "astronomical" price of some cars in the game, I've come to a conclusion that explains my mixed feelings on MTX:

I love the concept, but I hate the reality of what it means for players.

Cars costing 20 million Cr. really does reflect the rarity and exclusivity of the car, and makes the whole car collecting aspect of the game more realistic - too realistic IMO - but realistic nevertheless.

But... speaking of "realistic", I feel that there needs to be some recalibration of what can be realistically expected of players - not just casual players, but all players - as to what is required to obtain these "rare" items (bearing in mind that they are not actually rare items, just items in the game where rarity has been superimposed upon them in order to imitate reality).

And when that means literally hundreds of hours of game play are required just to obtain a single car or (cynically and greedily) a truly massive outlay of real cash to be able to buy these cars, then we're getting into the realms of turning what used to be a game into something other... something less, something just a tad... grubby.

I never thought I'd see the day when that was a word I'd associate with my beloved GT and respected PD.

:(
 
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Silver Arrows

(Banned)
4,715
Canada
Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
I mean, people give Forza Horizon since 3, really, but specifically 4 and 5, guff for having a gameplay loop and economy that devalues most things, and hands things to you on a silver platter, and they're valid complaints, but compared to GT7's approach to the in game economy issue? Give me FH's economy 10 times out of 10, because at least I know that any and all cars from the Autoshow can be obtained through simply playing the games, and the cash rewards are mostly based around length of the race then anything else, and are plentiful enough even if you don't have the bonuses that come from the VIP Pass. And most of the high level cars in the Autoshow are expensive, yeah, but at the very least prices are set and not gated based on invites or fluctuating prices or whatever. What you see is what you get, so you can at least plan instead of mad-dash grinding in order to get a car that may be cheaper or more expensive the next time it comes around in the cycle.

Polyphony knew what they were doing when they created the base loop for GT7's economy, and really, it's so incredibly obvious that it really puts every other major racing game's own economies, specifically FH's, into perspective on how good they are by comparison. But some people want to say that FH is a grind, or too easy or whatever.
 
570
Australia
Australia
I got the game on March 12 and have done the menus, some of the missions and 2 circuit experience. I do grind.... 9 minutes a day equal 2 truck races on Daytona. So far I have spent 4 millions on cars and 9 millions on tuning parts, because I am running a time trial here and testing different cars. I also have a million on my profile now.
I am well aware that it's much harder to get credits here than in GTS but I already explained my view on why.
I don't think it's as bad as people say it is. Sure, if you feel you have to buy that unicorn at the very moment it shows up it is either really grindy or geared for mxt. But you can choose to buy it the next time it comes around.
I would much prefer the game economy to be restructured; to value the player's time and energy. As it sits however, if they made some key changes then I could come to your opinion in merry agreement, till that happens, it's a no from me. It's bad.
THIS...........EXACTLY!!! The real reason I wasted $90 on this game was the "return to form" promises. The "deep single player mode" promises. What a disappointment. And I STILL have never received the 3 cars that were supposed to come with package.
Yup. Pretty much GT7 was sold as a "return to form" and they've not yet fulfilled all those promises despite the game being sold on them! Kaz put out a statement, that says he will, but it's your time, money(depends how much you personally value it) and frustration against his words... Not a good look but looks like we're in it for the long haul... just to see if Kaz will keep his word or not
 
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175
United States
Pennsyltucky
ruggermole
I have to say that I'm pretty happy that that upset consumers have been able to force a change in the product. It might be in the macro but I'm happy to see that there can be demand side affects on products and hopefully people will learn from this.

The game is still a bit ruined for me as I only play it for the Manufacturer's series and my League has returned to GTSport due to GT7's lobby issues.

I've made dumber, more expensive purchases so at the end of the day I'm not too upset. I really like driving sims and all the confusion surrounding the driving kind of ruins the game for me. The old games were just drive, collect, and tune. Now I have to worry about invites and cars rotating in and out of the market. I like my video games to be a little more straight forward than that. I get that there are maybe a lot of people who like that so I'm happy they got (or will get) a game they like.
 
93
Norway
Equalityland
With hope, someone in PD read this.

As a simple guy that have bought all PlayStation consoles since the very first, only to play the GT series.
Indeed, A not so cheap investment for only one game.

- Please, allow the players to report other players on the grid/final positions screen, as in GT Sport.
Some players are driving deliberated to ram and ruin other players races, maybe because they found
that there is no report feature after races.
And no, the report options inside player's profile page is very cool, but it doesn't have the option to report
a player for the matter.

- Please, make a penalty for the overtaking dive bombers.
I mean pushing lateral contact in corners to overtake.
Just happened a few mints ago at Dingle Dell Corner, with me, again.
The D****** carried on his race, while I have lost 5 places, while trying to leave the grass before Stirlings.

It is ridiculous, some 'good and fast' players, are only able to overtake in corners pushing the other cars outside
and getting no penalty for that. Why? The driver in front, lose the place unfairly and the wise guy get away with
no penalty and one position gain.

- Please allow the possibility to be able to search for more content on the GT Official site on PC.
As we can do in GT Sport.
View attachment 1130413

In GT7 we can see only the first page. And if what I search is on another page I can't get access?
Where can I select to go to the next page?
View attachment 1130414

- Please set races with production/street cars. There are plenty. In fact, there are more than racing cars.
I would like to race them with other players, not AI.

- Please insert the rear braking balance option in races.


Now. Thank you, PD.
I like to manage my cars and money and the way I spend it.
Thank you for introducing the penalties for crossing the pit exit lines.
In GT Sport, many idiots crossed it, causing some accidents and ruining some races. Yes I repeat, idiots.
It is a continuous white line, dividing a race path with an exit path. Jeeezzz. Strong Kudos to PD.



I maybe lost my time, but life is full of surprises sometimes. We never know. Maybe PD will add some of my asks.



Now to GTP community.
This post is not meant to open any discussion. Please, face this as a telephone talk with someone at PD.
It is only a simple couple of words regarding what I feel about GT7 needs, right now.
And in the meantime hoping that some of the words get to PD. :)



Thank you.
It would be easy [coding time a few days perhaps] to design a penalty system so that it is similar in GT7 to rules in real world motorsports including DTM, WTCC, F1. I'm thinking of factors like the player/driver from behind gets the penalty if the car hits/touches from approximately 50% from the front end part of the car to the middle of the car, and also a contributing factor for the probability of getting a punishment should be that a car changes speed and/or direction or not. The car that changes the speed&direction the least should be the least probable to be punished for a collision.
 
93
Norway
Equalityland
What is most difficult to accept is that mostly everything that GT7 needs to be an amazing game is already there, it's just that there's far too many problems with how the game's content is used/delivered, with too many limitations, obstacles, irritations and impracticalities that spoil what should be a much better game.

Most of GT7's ills boil down to the in-game economy, but I do also wonder if those people in charge at PD actually play all aspects of the game, because it's hard to fathom why some things have been done the way they have when small changes could make the game so much easier to enjoy.
Since Kaz insists of having much or most content/gameplay/cars locked away or hard to obtain since GT5, I wonder if we suggested to Kaz/PD that at least after 50%-75% or all of the GT Cafe [or 100% of single player completion rate] have been done, that we get to actually change the rigid options in single player mode like PP, tyre, BHP? At least if so, GT7 would be good&acceptable even if some other choices are lacking compared to GT3/GT4/GT5.
 
175
United States
Pennsyltucky
ruggermole
And when that means literally hundreds of hours of game play are required just to obtain a single car or (cynically and greedily) a truly massive outlay of real cash to be able to buy these cars, then we're getting into the realms of turning what used to be a game into something other... something less, something just a tad... grubby.
I feel like in a game where collecting everything in the game isn't the primary purpose but is a goal of most players; there should be a resaonable hour target for the average player to play in order to collect everything. For me that would be 2-4 hours a week over a couple of years in order to collect all cars. I don't know what that would come down to on a per car basis but it certainly wasn't the pre-patch economy and I'm not sure about now.
 
93
Norway
Equalityland
And I do still think that GT Sport's economy is fundamentally broken/unbalanced. The game heaped credits over you at every turn, and there was absolutely no sink at all except buying cars.
It is the players choice to spend money on cars, and a choice to use fast cars or slow cars, to make it easy or difficult to win against the AI in single player. It is never a problem because more credits makes the player with more choices/options for game play variability. So it is impossible that the credit access in GTS is a problem. The problem for you it seems, is that you are not good at using the most suitable cars or setup to race, for you to have the most fun in single player mode. Or even online against other humans?
More credits never a problem only increased choices and possibilities for game play!
 
93
Norway
Equalityland
If you want one of the unicorns there's a longer grind ahead of you now, for sure, but I've said several times now that I think it should take time and effort to get those cars. I can't answer whether the current time/effort is the appropriate one though.
Longer grid would make the game boring for many of us, and how about not having cars above $10m? Since most people here who played GT3/GT4/GTS + GT5&GT6 with seasonals think these five games had good progression pace with credits, you can't answer if current time/effort is good enough in GT7? Really?