Latin American Caravan(s) Headed for Southern U.S. Border

Johnnypenso

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Johnnypenso
Most of us are aware of the caravan that broke through the Guatemalan/Mexican border a couple of days ago. My impression is this is going to turn into an even bigger international story as it unfolds and so I thought I'd give it it's own thread. Hard to find an impartial take on it but our CBC here in Canada seems to provide a decent overview of events.

 
I see no reason why America should object to allowing these people in our country.
 
I see no reason why America should object to allowing these people in our country.
Me either, so long as they all enter legally.

I don't understand where they are getting food/water/clothes/diapers/etc., from local donations?

Also, there's no way they'll reach the US border by Nov 6 (1200 miles in 2 week = 85 miles a day) so this will not come to a head before the midterms, but I'm sure it will get plenty of media coverage though, gotta get everyone emotional before voting.
 
I get why this has become a political football being punted around, but at it's core these are humans honestly fleeing violence. We should, as the richest and most powerful country in the history of humanity, at least do the following.

1. Receive them if they come to the border
2. Evaluate the credibility of each individual as a refugee
3. Treat them as refugees

7,000 migrants (or whatever it is) sounds like a lot, but the US is a pretty damn big place. It's pretty cynical to turn away people running away from violence and death. And yeah, I'll pay for it. Caring for all of them probably equates to 0.25c or less of my yearly 5-figure tax bill. There are other things I'd rather not pay for.
 
Me either, so long as they all enter legally.

I don't understand where they are getting food/water/clothes/diapers/etc., from local donations?

Also, there's no way they'll reach the US border by Nov 6 (1200 miles in 2 week = 85 miles a day) so this will not come to a head before the midterms, but I'm sure it will get plenty of media coverage though, gotta get everyone emotional before voting.
Flatbed trucks won't take 2 weeks. Some of them could reach the border by the weekend. I too would like to know who is funding all of this. Flatbed trucks just show up out of the blue?
 
You mean besides the fact we have no clue what any of their backgrounds are?

Now we need background checks, yet didn’t when people arrived in New York? I know it was a different time, but the double standards are there.

Flatbed trucks won't take 2 weeks. Some of them could reach the border by the weekend. I too would like to know who is funding all of this. Flatbed trucks just show up out of the blue?

Oh noes!
 
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Than why on earth are you here if you have no desire to actually debate? If you just want to blurt things out and not have anybody respond this isn't the place for you.

Too bad

Taking over, lol. Leaders make bad deals for the people, then they lie and say it’s not them.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Legalize and regulate drugs, then these type of numbers will go down (like in Mexico, once THC was legalized in many states)

Sorry for the double post
 
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NBC is reporting another caravan, this time from El Salvador, might be gearing up to make the trek north to the U.S:

As the Trump administration makes preparations to combat the 6,500-member Honduran migrant caravan making its way toward the United States, the Department of Homeland Security is also tracking a new caravan taking shape — this time from El Salvador, according to two U.S. officials, a local source on the ground in Central America and an internal U.S. government report obtained by NBC News.

The El Salvadoran caravan is still forming, but its members have plans to begin their journey northward toward the U.S. next week, according to the sources.


The internal report indicates that DHS is tracking the communications of caravan members, including a 230-member WhatsApp group that intends to leave on Oct. 31.

NOTE: Thread title edited to reflect possible additional caravans.
 
You mean besides the fact we have no clue what any of their backgrounds are?
This is a very stereotypical, maybe even racist way to look at this situation. You seem to come off as if the members of the caravan, as well as Latino/a immigrants in general, are of high risk and pose as a potential danger for this country's security. That simply isn't true. These are people who are fleeing their home countries of Guatemala and Honduras due to persecution and extreme poverty. All they want is a better quality of life, not to cause harm, like conservatives think. Yes, drug cartels and violent gangs do exist, but the amount of people who "illegally immigrate" who are coming for the sole purpose of bringing in drugs and recruiting gang members is miniscule enough that it's irrelevant. It's a racist stereotype (perpetuated and encouraged by Trump) that most Latinos are criminals, when in fact that is as far from true as you can get.

I put "illegally immigrate" in quotes as I am a firm believer in the principle of "no human is illegal on stolen island". 400 years ago white people "illegally immigrated" to the Americas to seek a better life and few people seem to care, but when brown people start doing the same, it suddenly becomes a national crisis. And don't say it was because "America wasn't civilized back then", because it certainly was. Native American cultures nationwide had set up organized governments and were more advanced than most of us think. Iroquois, as an example. There are over 600,000 known illegal immigrants fro Europe in America but no one ever talks about that being problematic. Whether we want to admit it or not, this is an issue of xenophobia and racism. White people are simply scared of those who do not look or act like they do living in America, this supposed melting pot. America, a country that is not only tremendously wealthy, developed safe haven, but one that is compassionate and accepting. We should feel sympathetic for the "illegals" and provide them the means to prosper here, rather than alienate them and see them as the problem. These people "illegally immigrate" for a reason, and it's not because they're criminals. Getting full citizenship in Americas takes multiple years. For many, it's a life or death situation; they can't afford to wait all this time to become granted as "actual Americans". And that's totally acceptable.

As for paying this mass immigration, it can totally be done. Not under a capitalist, nationalist Trump government, however. Yes, the majority of these "illegals" will need government services, just as food stamps, rent assistance, and other forms of welfare. That is also totally acceptable. The government should also provide job training, childcare, contraception, free health care (covering mental health conditions and pre-existing conditions as well), and free university to them. How can this be done. Simple. Tax the wealthy and large conglomerate corporations more. We all need to pitch in. No, not everyone will be enthusiastic about their taxes going up (albeit by a very small amount), but it's for a good cause. We're helping people. At the end of the day, citizenship is just a certificate, not a way to judge who is valid and who isn't.

America can not truly progress if we continue to have the regressive mindset that brown "illegal" immigrants are the problem. Xenophobia is the problem. Whether they have their citizenship or not, the extreme majority are productive members of society. Bigotry accomplishes nothing. Trump, for example, threatening to close the US border and cut off food aid with Honduras if the caravan isn't stopped is a prime example of regressive, xenophobic bigotry. It's no small issue, and in fact, it should be seen as a breach of human rights. He is putting lives on the line, of innocent people. And those who think, "not Americans, so not our problem", only cause more insult to the injury.
 
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This is a very stereotypical, maybe even racist way to look at this situation.

Not really, if you go to any foreign country they are going to do a background check. Even going across the border into Canada requires one.

You seem to come off as if the members of the caravan, as well as Latino/a immigrants in general, are of high risk and pose as a potential danger for this country's security. That simply isn't true.

Where did I say that? :confused:

but the amount of people who "illegally immigrate" who are coming for the sole purpose of bringing in drugs and recruiting gang members is miniscule enough that it's irrelevant.

You're 16 so you're still in school. Now, the likelihood of your school hiring a pedophile teacher is very low, does that mean they should just skip the background check part of the hiring process?

America, a country that is not only tremendously wealthy,

A tremendously wealthy country with 13 trillion dollars in debt? That's a new one! :lol:
 
Me either, so long as they all enter legally.
Perfect example of "easier said than done".

You clearly have no idea how long it takes and how much of a process it is to finally be granted an American citizen. Hence why so many "illegally immigrate" rather than wait. This is a matter of signing a few papers and waiting in a short line. It takes years.

Not really, if you go to any foreign country they are going to do a background check. Even going across the border into Canada requires one.



Where did I say that? :confused:



You're 16 so you're still in school. Now, the likelihood of your school hiring a pedophile teacher is very low, does that mean they should just skip the background check part of the hiring process?



A tremendously wealthy country with 13 trillion dollars in debt? That's a new one! :lol:
I bring up racism because people aren't screaming "BACKGROUND CHECK!" when it's whites who immigrate here, whether it's "illegally" or the lawful way. Yes, everyone should be background checked. Nowhere did I say they shouldn't. We think that whites are totally safe and law-abiding and that brown people are the ones causing mischief and need to be patted down, and this mindset is totally unacceptable. So yes, racism plays a part.

You never explicitly said, but that's how you came across, a typical white conservative viewpoint. Perception is reality.

Again, never did I say background checks shouldn't happen.

There are pretty obvious ways that we can enter ourselves of debt, though our imperialist, nationalist government will see them as absurd. Demilitarize, stop funding Middle Eastern affairs (exception: unless it's to aid Palestine or the Yemeni famine), raise taxes for the privileged and large companies.
 
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Perfect example of "easier said than done".

You clearly have no idea how long it takes and how much of a process it is to finally be granted an American citizen. Hence why so many "illegally immigrate" rather than wait. This is a matter of signing a few papers and waiting in a short line. It takes years.

I actually believe there's a different process for refugees.

I bring up racism because people aren't screaming "BACKGROUND CHECK!" when it's whites who immigrate here, whether it's "illegally" or the lawful way.

Screaming? Like in the media? Probably not. But anyone immigrating to the US, regardless of your race is subjected to an extensive background check.

====

I guess my biggest issue is that they are coming here to just be here. Most illegal immigrants are coming here to work or at the very least find work. They almost always either have some sort of skill or at least a work ethic that means they're willing to be in a field long hours picking produce, cleaning nasty hotel rooms, do landscaping, etc. All the guys I've hired at Home Depot have been some of the hardest working people I've ever met with an outstanding hustle and drive to work. They also don't milk the job or charge me some insane amount of money for a task.

I'm not so sure those in this caravan are in it to work and make a life for themselves. Also, it's not like they're going to go back like many of the seasonal illegal immigrants do in the US.

If you want to come here and work, I have no problem whether you're legal or illegal. If you're coming here to mooch off the system, then you can leave.
 
I bring up racism because people aren't screaming "BACKGROUND CHECK!" when it's whites who immigrate here,

Is there some large contingent of undocumented white immigrants I'm not aware of? :confused:

You never explicitly said, but that's how you came across, a typical white conservative viewpoint. Perception is reality.

Dude, please don't go down this road. Respond to what people actually post, not what you think they mean.

Again, never did I say background checks shouldn't happen.

Than why are you taking so much issue with my original post?
 
This is a very stereotypical, maybe even racist way to look at this situation. You seem to come off as if the members of the caravan, as well as Latino/a immigrants in general, are of high risk and pose as a potential danger for this country's security. That simply isn't true. These are people who are fleeing their home countries of Guatemala and Honduras due to persecution and extreme poverty. All they want is a better quality of life, not to cause harm, like conservatives think. Yes, drug cartels and violent gangs do exist, but the amount of people who "illegally immigrate" who are coming for the sole purpose of bringing in drugs and recruiting gang members is miniscule enough that it's irrelevant. It's a racist stereotype (perpetuated and encouraged by Trump) that most Latinos are criminals, when in fact that is as far from true as you can get.

I put "illegally immigrate" in quotes as I am a firm believer in the principle of "no human is illegal on stolen island". 400 years ago white people "illegally immigrated" to the Americas to seek a better life and few people seem to care, but when brown people start doing the same, it suddenly becomes a national crisis. And don't say it was because "America wasn't civilized back then", because it certainly was. Native American cultures nationwide had set up organized governments and were more advanced than most of us think. Iroquois, as an example. There are over 600,000 known illegal immigrants fro Europe in America but no one ever talks about that being problematic. Whether we want to admit it or not, this is an issue of xenophobia and racism. White people are simply scared of those who do not look or act like they do living in America, this supposed melting pot. America, a country that is not only tremendously wealthy, developed safe haven, but one that is compassionate and accepting. We should feel sympathetic for the "illegals" and provide them the means to prosper here, rather than alienate them and see them as the problem. These people "illegally immigrate" for a reason, and it's not because they're criminals. Getting full citizenship in Americas takes multiple years. For many, it's a life or death situation; they can't afford to wait all this time to become granted as "actual Americans". And that's totally acceptable.

As for paying this mass immigration, it can totally be done. Not under a capitalist, nationalist Trump government, however. Yes, the majority of these "illegals" will need government services, just as food stamps, rent assistance, and other forms of welfare. That is also totally acceptable. The government should also provide job training, childcare, contraception, free health care (covering mental health conditions and pre-existing conditions as well), and free university to them. How can this be done. Simple. Tax the wealthy and large conglomerate corporations more. We all need to pitch in. No, not everyone will be enthusiastic about their taxes going up (albeit by a very small amount), but it's for a good cause. We're helping people. At the end of the day, citizenship is just a certificate, not a way to judge who is valid and who isn't.

America can not truly progress if we continue to have the regressive mindset that brown "illegal" immigrants are the problem. Xenophobia is the problem. Whether they have their citizenship or not, the extreme majority are productive members of society. Bigotry accomplishes nothing. Trump, for example, threatening to close the US border and cut off food aid with Honduras if the caravan isn't stopped is a prime example of regressive, xenophobic bigotry. It's no small issue, and in fact, it should be seen as a breach of human rights. He is putting lives on the line, of innocent people. And those who think, "not Americans, so not our problem", only cause more insult to the injury.
It's not racist to want people entering your sovereign nation to be vetted according to your own laws. Bringing racism into the argument is a strawman intended to discredit another's opinion.
 
You let in a group of 6,500 Hondurans, then another large group of Salvadorans, at what point does one stop and think, “Uh oh. We may need to slow down and halt this til we figure out how to take care of anymore refugees.” It’s not like these people are being greeted with shelter, food, and a pamphlet at the border; it’s going to take time to go through each of these folks and see who we can help.

The sad reality is we can not take everyone and we can’t send the impression that we’ll take everyone else willing to trek here.
 
I don't see why America has to take anyone, should be Americas choice not the migrants on who gets to come into the country.

There is no war in these countries, and while these countries in question do have high crime rates so does many parts of the world.

Mexico has a significantly higher standard of living then those central American countries and has even offered asylum if they apply, yet most of have shown disregard for it to go for the US.

We will see how this goes though, if they storm the Border and overwhelm border security they will not help their case, but if they try to apply for asylum legally at the border checkpoints then they will help their case signifcantly.
 
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I don't see why America has to take anyone, should be Americas choice not the migrants on who gets to come into the country.

There is no war in these countries, and while these countries in question do have high crime rates so does many parts of the world.

Mexico has a significantly higher standard of living then those central American countries and has even offered asylum if they apply, yet most of have shown disregard for it to go for the US.

We will see how this goes though, if they storm the Border and overwhelm border security they will not help their case, but if they try to apply for asylum legally at the border checkpoints then they will help their case signifcantly.

Dude Mexico is at war with the Cartels and violence is a daily occurence in Mexico while Honduras and El Salvador are in a much worse state which the people themselves are escaping from.

Trade one place of violence for another.

Mass migration has always been bad especially for countries that are not equipped for it.

People got to remember the top 10 refugee taking countries are in Asia and Africa. These are a few Hondurans while Pakistan has 1 million Afghan refugees.
 
Dude Mexico is at war with the Cartels and violence is a daily occurence in Mexico while Honduras and El Salvador are in a much worse state which the people themselves are escaping from.

Trade one place of violence for another.

Mass migration has always been bad especially for countries that are not equipped for it.

People got to remember the top 10 refugee taking countries are in Asia and Africa. These are a few Hondurans while Pakistan has 1 million Afghan refugees.
There is a reason why Turkey, Pakistan, Lebanon and others have soo many Refugees, it's because they are escaping literal war, their homes and neighbourhoods have likely been bombed to non-existence there is nothing to go back to, this is not the same situation.

I know the number isn't large compared to what other countries are bringing in but you can't compare those to United states, if the US was willing to take that many the number would rise and not stop it isn't feasible, given the gulf in living conditions of the US to it's southern neighbours, it would be economic migrant central.

US has a land border between them and some of the highest crime rates in the world, Western Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc do not have this situation so it can't be judged the same.

A country should have the right to accept who it chooses if that is what the people in said country want, they elected a government to represent them and it isn't far fetched to have that government represent what people in said country want.
 
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Mother Nature could play a role in the fate of the current caravan. Or maybe it is not Mother Nature but Trump weather engineers in the basement at HAARP?

 
Unless they can cover 1000 miles on foot, today, then they aren't likely to encounter the hurricane. But you knew that already.

Also, as I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere....I can't think of a single escape route for fleeing central Americans, that doesn't involve almost certain death, than coming to the US. Mexico may be a better option than their current situation, but its nothing like as safe as the USA or Canada. I saw somebody mention that they could go to South America. The thing is, they really can't. There isn't really a passable route on foot between Panama and Colombia. I doubt many would survive. Traveling by ocean is just as, if not more perilous.

It's pretty clear to me that the powers of the Western Hemisphere are not doing enough to foster stability in Central America. We can't deal with migrants, in one way or another, or we can look at the actual problem. Have there been any real, concerted efforts or proposals in recent years to do this?
 
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Unless USA legalizes every drug nothing is going to change in those countries, but given how big these gangs and cartels are they will likely move into something else.
 
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