GTDesigned: A Community Vision GT Project

[citroengt1]

@wvmgmidget
I'll vote for you as a project manager.
For me it is all the same who is the PM,
as long he is capable and willing to do the part.

 

[MatskiMonk]

A brief is only needed if you want the designer to create a product that meets certain criterias. Free reins might lead to more nonsensical concepts but that's the entire point of competition: the community will vote for what they think is the best concept, and it doesn't matter if nonsensical concepts enter the competition, because what matters is the winning concept.

I agree with most of what you put except for this. It should have to meet criteria's set by majority vote, that way it will represent the majority of the community... I totally agree that voting for the brief can't just be a pick'n'mix of options.

Let's say what the majority of community wants is a RWD Front Engined I6 sports car... but all the designers want to draw Mid-engined V12 wedge's? The final vote goes through and the person with the best looking V12 wedge wins because the end poll only asks "which of these is your favourite?", not "Is this your idea of a GTP VGT?". The end result is the GTP VGT was not what people wanted, even though they may have taken the time to vote for the prettiest rendering.

No system will be perfect, but I still think going through a design process is important, not just skipping straight to the end.

I also think the Project manager should be voted for based on their explanation of how they will rung things. (I do not want to be PM by the way, just calling it as I see it!)

 

[Grandea GTR]

Our design process was so short before the design poll, and then all of a sudden became extremely extensive after that said poll. In my honest opinion, it doesn't seem right.

It should go like this, as I think it would be the more sensible option.

Component Poll > Design Process > Design Poll > Design Refining

 

[LosCules24SFA]

I can, yes but, I still think staff approval is necessary.

I too indeed think that staff approval is needed but from my point of view there's a lot of benefits we can get by starting without any approval. If we already done the Component Poll, It will be easier and faster for us to start the whole project when we get the official approval. From my experience of joining design competitions in GrabCAD, from the very first second the competition going live, we're provided by a pdf file containing the spec of the product ready to download.

I want our team to work like that. As soon as we get the go ahead signal we're ready for it, all we need to do is provide the pdf file containg every spec, component information, size measurements, etc based on the result of the poll and announce a competition for the design process.

Also we should share the poll sheet to our local GT Community , and shre it in other threads if neede to get as much samples as we need.

Our design process was so short before the design poll, and then all of a sudden became extremely extensive after that said poll. In my honest opinion, it doesn't seem right.

It should go like this, as I think it would be the more sensible option.

Component Poll > Design Process > Design Poll > Design Refining

That is spot on

-Component Poll
-Competition
-Choose the winning design
-Design refinement for aerodynamics, safety, etc

 

[eran0004]

I agree with most of what you put except for this. It should have to meet criteria's set by majority vote, that way it will represent the majority of the community... I totally agree that voting for the brief can't just be a pick'n'mix of options.

Let's say what the majority of community wants is a RWD Front Engined I6 sports car... but all the designers want to draw Mid-engined V12 wedge's? The final vote goes through and the person with the best looking V12 wedge wins because the end poll only asks "which of these is your favourite?", not "Is this your idea of a GTP VGT?". The end result is the GTP VGT was not what people wanted, even though they may have taken the time to vote for the prettiest rendering.

No system will be perfect, but I still think going through a design process is important, not just skipping straight to the end.

I also think the Project manager should be voted for based on their explanation of how they will rung things. (I do not want to be PM by the way, just calling it as I see it!)

It would represent the entire community by winning the competition. I don't see the need for a brief, what purpose would it have? It would just limit the creativity and kill off potential designs before they even have a chance to be pitched.

It's great to have polls as an indicator for what people would be interested in, you can get a hint of what you might want to do if you want to score a lot of votes. But I really don't think that it should be a requirement to stick to the result of the poll(s).

And I don't think people actually know exactly what they want before they see it. It's like picking your favourite car of a motor show before you even know which cars will be on display. Before you enter you may think that your favourite will be an FR turbocharged V8 coupe, but when you've seen all the cars you realise that your favourite is in fact a 4wd electric hatchback.

 

[MatskiMonk]

It would represent the entire community by winning the competition. I don't see the need for a brief, what purpose would it have? It would just limit the creativity and kill off potential designs before they even have a chance to be pitched.

It's great to have polls as an indicator for what people would be interested in, you can get a hint of what you might want to do if you want to score a lot of votes. But I really don't think that it should be a requirement to stick to the result of the poll(s).

And I don't think people actually know exactly what they want before they see it. It's like picking your favourite car of a motor show before you even know which cars will be on display. Before you enter you may think that your favourite will be an FR turbocharged V8 coupe, but when you've seen all the cars you realise that your favourite is in fact a 4wd electric hatchback.

Perhaps, as I said, I don't think any system is perfect. Without a design brief it's more a competition in-house for the gratification of the best designer, not a collaborative effort to represent the community ideals. If the only stage the community can actually participate in, is the final stage, and we just go straight for finished designs, a "none of the above" vote would be important in order to register the opinion of community members that don't happen to think any of the suggestions represent their opinion on what a GT car of the future should be like.

Just my opinion, personally I'm highly unlikely to contribute either way, even if I had the skills and the tools, I don't have the time, whereas I'm sure you will continue to contribute quite a bit, so I'm just offering my two cents.

 

[eran0004]

Perhaps, as I said, I don't think any system is perfect. Without a design brief it's more a competition in-house for the gratification of the best designer, not a collaborative effort to represent the community ideals. If the only stage the community can actually participate in, is the final stage, and we just go straight for finished designs, a "none of the above" vote would be important in order to register the opinion of community members that don't happen to think any of the suggestions represent their opinion on what a GT car of the future should be like.

Just my opinion, personally I'm highly unlikely to contribute either way, even if I had the skills and the tools, I don't have the time, whereas I'm sure you will continue to contribute quite a bit, so I'm just offering my two cents.

The community would be involved in every stage, because anyone would be free to enter the competition. Wether they take the chance or not is up to each individual.

A concept car is an idea. It would be a waste to cut 90% of the ideas off before we've even started. It's better to let people go crazy, think outside of the box, do something that they have inspiration for. That can't be done if we set a brief that everyone must stick to.

Anyway, I don't think participation through poll is really participation. To participate you need to contribute. The best way to give everyone a chance to contribute would be to have a competition with as few preset limitations as possible.

 

[cgg]

In order to get the community involved in the polls etc, we need to get a staff member on side. When the polls go live it would be useful of them to be put on the front page of GTPlanet, therefore more people would know about them, and we would get a wider range of input from the community. This would turn it into a community project rather than one with 5 members.

 

[LosCules24SFA]

The community would be involved in every stage, because anyone would be free to enter the competition. Wether they take the chance or not is up to each individual.

A concept car is an idea. It would be a waste to cut 90% of the ideas off before we've even started. It's better to let people go crazy, think outside of the box, do something that they have inspiration for. That can't be done if we set a brief that everyone must stick to.

Anyway, I don't think participation through poll is really participation. To participate you need to contribute. The best way to give everyone a chance to contribute would be to have a competition with as few preset limitations as possible.

What if we have a separate competition for each car class like (hatchback competition, lmp competition, supercar competition, sedan, etc) and see who wins at each category before finally pitch it against each other for the best of the best design. But decide the powertrain from the poll (Engine position will not be included) what do you guys think?

To participate you need to contribute

Indeed, the poll is meant for getting samples

 

[LosCules24SFA]

In order to get the community involved in the polls etc, we need to get a staff member on side. When the polls go live it would be useful of them to be put on the front page of GTPlanet, therefore more people would know about them, and we would get a wider range of input from the community. This would turn it into a community project rather than one with 5 members.

Good idea but the question is who?

 

[cgg]

What if we have a separate competition for each car class like (hatchback competition, lmp competition, supercar competition, sedan, etc) and see who wins at each category before finally pitch it against each other for the best of the best design. But decide the powertrain (Engine position will not be included) what do you guys think?

I agree that we need to keep as many ideas as possible, but also we can't just have any old idea flying around. We need to start by having a design brief, however this cannot be restricting in terms of propulsion, aero, etc etc. A brief outline, decided by the community will be necessary to start the project properly.


I'm not sure, we will probably have to see if anyone is interested. If we propose the idea someone might like it.

 

[Xiamoto]

Just to mention a few things and re-focus the discussion here:

• To repeat my last post, I have proposed this to PD/SCEA, and there is some interest. However, it's important to remain realistic, as it could be months (or even years) before we learn if or how they will support the project.
• If this were to become an actual project, it would be important to start from the very beginning, involving everyone - not just the handful of people participating in this thread. Therefore, it's superfluous and presumptuous to make any decisions on behalf of the "community" when only a tiny fraction of the fan base is even aware this is going on.
• At this point, the most (and really, only) productive thing that anyone can do is 1.) show their support and enthusiasm here, 2.) get creative and keep sharing ideas and sketches, and 3.) discuss the hypothetical process that would be required to to make this a reality.

If the time comes, I'll be sure that we have enough infrastructure, communications platforms, and resources to work through that process to turn this car into (virtual) reality. I know a lot of you want to jump straight into this, but until we have any kind of official word, attempting to finalize decisions with any degree of permanence is just getting ahead of ourselves.

Hello Jordan, would you consider launching this program and dedicating resources without PD/SCEA involvement? Is it reasonable to propose that we create a community designed virtual car that is so highly visible (let alone the first ever truly community designed virtual car in the industry) that the Software Publishers would literally compete for the rights to publish it in their Title? How many people do you feel would need to be involved here on GTP in order for this project to be considered a truly community designed virtual car?

Thanks in advance for your reply and for all you do for the Virtual Motorsports industry.

 

[LosCules24SFA]

I agree that we need to keep as many ideas as possible, but also we can't just have any old idea flying around. We need to start by having a design brief, however this cannot be restricting in terms of propulsion, aero, etc etc. A brief outline, decided by the community will be necessary to start the project properly.


I'm not sure, we will probably have to see if anyone is interested. If we propose the idea someone might like it.

Yes indeed we'll decide the design brief in a poll with the whole community. We need a solid idea that wouldn't waste much creativity but at the same time keep it regulated. That's kind of our problem and it's the best idea i got, for now.

 

[LosCules24SFA]

Sorry, double posted

 

[wvmgmidget]

We could use polls as guidelines in order to help influence designers to design a car but not require them. The problem with this idea is that it could turn people away who are not able to design or not give everyone a fair voice. Like I said we should hash out a process with the staff or developers (If we could contact them)

 

[sar593]

I think we should start deciding the car we want (road or race car) and from there go into more detail, like deciding which kind of race or road car should it be, then the drivetrain, the engine, and so on. At the very beginning there should be as many ideas as possible, like a brainstorm, and with those ideas make a poll.

 

[lGNAl]

I think a mod/admin with the right car design/development 'know how' should be the project manger. For better organisation.

 

[Grandea GTR]

I think we should start deciding the car we want (road or race car) and from there go into more detail, like deciding which kind of race or road car should it be, then the drivetrain, the engine, and so on. At the very beginning there should be as many ideas as possible, like a brainstorm, and with those ideas make a poll.

That's the point of my idea of the component poll. We see what people see on a VGT through their selection of engine, transmission, body style, etc. From there we can go on making our renditions of a VGT based on the popular components, and move on out from there.

 

[sar593]

Shouldn't the project constraints (scope, cost and scedule) be defined before anything?

 

[Gerarghini]

Well do we know how much it's going to cost to get the project into GT to begin with? Would PD charge a fee (?) in order to have it in game?

I think regardless of how the project comes out, the sacrifice to put it in the game will be, I'm guessing, the same relatively speaking (road v. race car, I would believe it'd be the same).

 

[sar593]

Right, it is difficult to have a cost of the project, but what about the scope and schedule? We can decide how detailed will be our design, and with that seat a time goal. I think if we don't have a deadline we will just rumble around forever.
A full schedule could be hard too, so maybe a weekly or monthly based schedule can do the job.

 

[Gerarghini]

Spend like a month or so with the first design, figure out what it'll be like. I agree that we must have deadlines and act on them, otherwise we'll just be rumbling around everything

First things first: race or road car

 

[iName]

Right, it is difficult to have a cost of the project, but what about the scope and schedule? We can decide how detailed will be our design, and with that seat a time goal. I think if we don't have a deadline we will just rumble around forever.
A full schedule could be hard too, so maybe a weekly or monthly based schedule can do the job.

I understand your point, but thoughts like this cause major fear-of-wasted-effort-based slow downs. Let's get this thing running, then worry about that type of stuff before we finalize it all. Even if this will be a wasted effort, let's at least have some fun doing it.

 

[sk8er913]

Re Poll if u want, but not much point until we get @Jordan and PD onboard the project.

Judging by the amount of Disagreement and confusion in this thread, its going to take a very long time. Lol

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well do we know how much it's going to cost to get the project into GT to begin with? Would PD charge a fee (?) in order to have it in game?

I think regardless of how the project comes out, the sacrifice to put it in the game will be, I'm guessing, the same relatively speaking (road v. race car, I would believe it'd be the same).

Most likely some legalities to sort out between Jordan and Sony/PD over the "GTPlanet" name, and also design rights of the winner that gets their car in the game, too.

 

[citroengt1]

Hello everyone.
I have to apologize for not doing my job as a freehand sketcher.
Lately i have been busy with my graduation and my final year in school.
And i have also realized what my career might be in the future.

Since i love designing cars that are so extreme and wild, i turned my attention
to Hot Wheels.Their designers explained that in HW Design Team your imagination
is only thing you need to draw on a pair of wheels.So i will try to became a Hot Wheels
Designer.
And here's is my first sketch:
I call it the Stinger.

 

[LosCules24SFA]

Hello everyone.
I have to apologize for not doing my job as a freehand sketcher.
Lately i have been busy with my graduation and my final year in school.
And i have also realized what my career might be in the future.

Since i love designing cars that are so extreme and wild, i turned my attention
to Hot Wheels.Their designers explained that in HW Design Team your imagination
is only thing you need to draw on a pair of wheels.So i will try to became a Hot Wheels
Designer.
And here's is my first sketch:
I call it the Stinger.

Nice 👍 get your dream mate, the shape of the car kind of reminds of a hot wheels i owned called slingshot? or something.

Btw, guys i think it's better for us to get a final decision for our poll plan. Guys i want you all to list your ideas regarding the poll and we'll discuss the pros and cons for each idea together

 

[kembro]

I agree @LosCules24SFA . Defining the poll categories and content for each would be the most productive thing we could do. Not sure of the best way to compile it together, where everyone can contribute and keep it organised. Ideas?

 

[ScottPuss20]

What I think we should do is come up with some concepts and see which the majority likes. By concepts, I mean something that is not traditional like a front engined rear drive V6.

 

[citroengt1]

We've done that already.We need more people.
One way is to share this idea of a community created car around the globe to get as much people as possible involved with the polls and then get PD approval on our project.

The second is to wait for PD approval.