Manual Gearbox: "fundamentally unsafe"?

  • Thread starter Famine
  • 126 comments
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This dude is an idiot. I'm 15 and have only driven my sisters Cobalt SS three times and only found it somwhat difficult to drive the first day. Since then it has been a peice of cake. Since when is it difficult to hit the brakes in a stick shift.

Thats a good letter Amp. I walk into walls or something everyday and I still keep walking though.
 
The steering wheel is an inherently unsafe way of controlling a car. I propose all new cars utilize steering by telepathy. All you "steering wheel enthusiasts" are just resisting progress.


Back to GTP after a long time away. Wooo!
 
What a F'n idiot. Just because you stall out every time you try and drive stick, doesn't mean it's dangerous or outdated. It simply means that you are an uncoordinated, lazy, pathetic excuse for a driver.
I was about to write a very angry letter back to him, but I'm lacking the time to do so... so I'll congratulate amp88 for doing so.
 
Re-reading his article, it really does seem like he has his own interests in mind. Perhaps he's sitting on an auto-tranny design that no company will pick up???
 
He's a retard.

On the subject...I had my first experience with a manual tranny a couple weeks ago. Only going down a driveway though...however, I did start 'er up and get rolling without stalling or buckin'. Kinda happy on that one, haha... :sly:
 
I agree with most everything here.

I will say though that once CVTs gain popularity, become cheaper to produce, and or more reliable and able to cope with high-torque loads, then we might see the demise of the manual, since a CVT is basically the perfect transmission (in terms of efficiency). Once CVTs become ubiquitous, I can’t really imagine why any automaker would continue offering manuals (or automatics, of course).

Which makes me sad. :(
 
Sage
I agree with most everything here.

I will say though that once CVTs gain popularity, become cheaper to produce, and or more reliable and able to cope with high-torque loads, then we might see the demise of the manual, since a CVT is basically the perfect transmission (in terms of efficiency). Once CVTs become ubiquitous, I can’t really imagine why any automaker would continue offering manuals (or automatics, of course).

Which makes me sad. :(
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Manuals will probably be more reliable than CVT's will ever be, except for the clutch replacement. Besides, where's the fun of zinging the car to the redline and snicking another upshift before zinging to the redline again?
In an auto, and CVT, and those gay SMG/F1/DSG things, you just put your foot on the accelerator and go. There's no driving involvement.
 
I'm just guessing at statistics here. But i think that 75% of people in the US use an Auto, and 75% of people in the UK use a Manual. But the UK has a lower accident rate than the US.

Go figure.
 
Sage
I will say though that once CVTs gain popularity, become cheaper to produce, and or more reliable and able to cope with high-torque loads, then we might see the demise of the manual, since a CVT is basically the perfect transmission (in terms of efficiency). Once CVTs become ubiquitous, I can’t really imagine why any automaker would continue offering manuals (or automatics, of course).
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Possibly sports cars will still have manuals – just to please the real “driving drivers”… hopefully. :nervous:
 
I've had my fair experience of both manual and automatic trannies, even with only 3 years total driving experience. It may just be that I'm more used to a manual but I absolutely hate auto's. Slowing down for anything is more difficult in an auto, driving my dads SC400, which is an auto, I find that I dont brake any where near as well as the many manuals I've driven. I find myself drifting out a little bit into intersections just because I dont have the option of engine braking.
I hate corners in autos - they scare me. I once went for a drive in my friends 318i with my other friend driving. While going around a corner, he accelerated a little making the auto trannie kick down a gear, causing an instant increase in power which caused a huge and unexpected oversteer moment. On literally the next corner he wrote the bmw off.

This guy is a complete idiot who, as the rest of you are saying, obviously cannot drive a manual properly, in my opinion they are much safer just because of the extra safety of engine braking and no sudden increases in power around a corner. This guy cant drive a manual - shame on him, just dont take it out on the manual - its not its fault that you cant use it right.

Excellent reply to the article amp - I agree with every point you make , you'd make a good debatist.

Ohh almost forgot - we came 1meter from going off a cliff on ice in our bedford van because the auto kicked down a gear causing 1 wheel to spin, propelling us across the road towards the cliff - causing me to crap myself.
 
Sage
I agree with most everything here.

I will say though that once CVTs gain popularity, become cheaper to produce, and or more reliable and able to cope with high-torque loads, then we might see the demise of the manual, since a CVT is basically the perfect transmission (in terms of efficiency). Once CVTs become ubiquitous, I can’t really imagine why any automaker would continue offering manuals (or automatics, of course).

Which makes me sad. :(
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I would think they would still offer manuals in many sportier/performance cars (like blake said) as alot of the fun factor is lost with CVT.
 
I'm probably going to get a huge serve for this, but I don't think autos are nearly as generally bad as all of you believe they are.

Although I don't actually own a car anymore, I do regualy drive my mothers Automatic, and my fathers manual.

(Just a word of warning mrhambone, I'm not meaning to offend you, but your post was just here)

mrhambone
Slowing down for anything is more difficult in an auto, driving my dads SC400, which is an auto, I find that I dont brake any where near as well as the many manuals I've driven. I find myself drifting out a little bit into intersections just because I dont have the option of engine braking.
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At normal road speeds. Braking distance isn't really going to make a whole lot of difference between auto and manual. If some kid runs out in front of you, chances are you're just going to slam on the brake, regardless of what you're driving. I know, if I was say, crusing at 60km/h in forth, and some kid ran out in front of me, I sure as hell wouldn't be worring about engine braking 3 times in a split second. If you're drifting out into intersections, you're driving to fast, and braking to late.

mrhambone
I once went for a drive in my friends 318i with my other friend driving. While going around a corner, he accelerated a little making the auto trannie kick down a gear, causing an instant increase in power which caused a huge and unexpected oversteer moment.
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A huge oversteer moment... Was the road wet? Or was he just taking the corner to fast? The brand spanking new 318i has all of 105kw at it's disposal. As far as I knew, 318i's don't have huge peaky motors. Sorry, if I seem aggressive, but I'm finding it hard to believe that an auto kick down, (In a 318 BMW no less), causes huge, uncontrolable oversteer.

I did admit, that the concentration required to drive a manual improves my driving greatly. I rarely speed in my fathers Manual (A 2.6L Vectra), compared to my mothers Auto (A 1.8 Ford Laser), just because I am more aware of my speed when driving a manual.

However, driving an Auto is not the end of the world. Car companies are making more and more Autos every day. Even uber-sports cars like the BMW M5 has an Auto, so obviously there is some demand for them. CVT is still auto, it's not like you continually vary the transmission yourself.
 
Casio
Even uber-sports cars like the BMW M5 has an Auto
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But the new M5 does not have an automatic transmission. It is a manual transmission with a hydraulically accuated clutch. There's quite a bit of difference between a conventional automatic and what the M5 has --both technically and functionally. What most people hate is the torque converter and what it does.


M
 
Casio
(Just a word of warning mrhambone, I'm not meaning to offend you, but your post was just here)


At normal road speeds. Braking distance isn't really going to make a whole lot of difference between auto and manual. If some kid runs out in front of you, chances are you're just going to slam on the brake, regardless of what you're driving. I know, if I was say, crusing at 60km/h in forth, and some kid ran out in front of me, I sure as hell wouldn't be worring about engine braking 3 times in a split second. If you're drifting out into intersections, you're driving to fast, and braking to late.


A huge oversteer moment... Was the road wet? Or was he just taking the corner to fast? The brand spanking new 318i has all of 105kw at it's disposal. As far as I knew, 318i's don't have huge peaky motors. Sorry, if I seem aggressive, but I'm finding it hard to believe that an auto kick down, (In a 318 BMW no less), causes huge, uncontrolable oversteer.
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Thank you. I was just thinking this myself, as well as the "truck on ice" paragraph.

An automatic transmission won't kick down unless you ask it for a substantial amount of power via the throttle. Poor throttle control is not the fault of the transmission.
 
No auto's arn't crap or a bad thing, but the idea that Auto's are safe and manual's are a death trap which is what the artical was implying is absolute rubbish.
 
DQuaN
I'm just guessing at statistics here. But i think that 75% of people in the US use an Auto, and 75% of people in the UK use a Manual. But the UK has a lower accident rate than the US.

Go figure.
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:grumpy: It's because in the UK you actually have to LEARN HOW TO DRIVE... vs. here in the U.S. where you are practically given your license.
 
That guy's an idiot, plain and simple. Automatic transmissions aren't for "safety", they're for people who don't have the skill or desire to learn how to properly drive a car.

When I bought my car recently, I specifically asked the salesman for a stick shift.. I was NOT going to buy an automatic. And I've never looked back. I don't think I'll ever buy another automatic. Ever.
 
Actually, automatics are more dangerous than manuals, and i read a hilarious article a while back saying how automatics made Americans fat. :P
 
:odd: Ok... did you hear about the idiot(oh yeah... another one) that stepped on the gas instead of the brake and went thru a bakery? :scared: that happens too often around here.
 
Raghavan
Actually, automatics are more dangerous than manuals, and i read a hilarious article a while back saying how automatics made Americans fat. :P
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Heh, I was about to make a post saying that autos are infact more dangerous than manuals, but you beat me to it!

But it has been proven that autos are more dangerous since manuals force drivers to pay more attention to driving instead of some sort of distraction.

But having experience driving nothing but autos (save for a manual Tercel for around four minutes), I have to say I hate fully automatic transmissions. For normal city driving they are okay, but once I get on a highway, you'll hear me start to curse the autobox. When I give the car some throttle to pass, I hate the time it takes to downshift; with a manual this would happen as soon as the driver wishes.

And of course, lets not even begin to talk about pushing a car with an auto.

The closest thing I've driven to a manual on the road is my mom's Hyundai Santa Fe which has a manual feature with the automatic tranny. Being able to select gears makes a huge difference to me even in normal driving situations. But of course, this is not a true manual, so the system is not fully intuitive.

I know I'm going to buy a car with a manual transmission when I get my first car.

And isn't BMW going to offer the M5 with a six speed manual sometime in the near future?
 
No it's got a seven speed semi-auto, thats all that will be offered in the M5, you can select gears as and when you want, or you can set it as an auto.
 
After having switched back to a manual after driving an automatic for years, I've been wondering which one is safer. Obviously some tests should be done and whichever one is less safe should be immediately outlawed.
 
danoff
After having switched back to a manual after driving an automatic for years, I've been wondering which one is safer. Obviously some tests should be done and whichever one is less safe should be immediately outlawed.
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Are you serious?
 
Swift - haven't you been reading danoff's posts long enough to work that out? :D
 
Famine
Swift - haven't you been reading danoff's posts long enough to work that out? :D
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Yeah, I have. But to be honest, he's said some rather extreme things(compared to what I think) before. So I figure better safe then taking him the wrong way.
 
Swift
Yeah, I have. But to be honest, he's said some rather extreme things(compared to what I think) before. So I figure better safe then taking him the wrong way.
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:) I guess that is safer. No I wasn't serious.
 

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