Mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio

  • Thread starter Novalee
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Armed, crazed, entitled white men are and have been the biggest and most serious threat in the United States, more so than any other identity or group. They account for over 65% of mass shootings, yet Trump and the media claim that illegal immigrants, African Americans and Muslims cause the most crime and that they are the “real problem”. We can’t truly end this crisis and reach a solution until we acknowledge who the real terrorists are, and that these people are empowered by Trump’s racist and extreme rhetoric as well as by radical alt right/ white nationalist groups which are increasingly become more popular and vocal. What a damn shame. People in my country can’t even go to a WalMart without worrying that a crazed mass shooter will kill them.
 
GranTurNismo
Armed, crazed, entitled white men are and have been the biggest and most serious threat in the United States, more so than any other identity or group. They account for over 65% of mass shootings, yet Trump and the media claim that illegal immigrants, African Americans and Muslims cause the most crime and that they are the “real problem”. We can’t truly end this crisis and reach a solution until we acknowledge who the real terrorists are, and that these people are empowered by Trump’s racist and extreme rhetoric as well as by radical alt right/ white nationalist groups which are increasingly become more popular and vocal. What a damn shame. People in my country can’t even go to a WalMart without worrying that a crazed mass shooter will kill them.
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Are we calling for a civil war?
 
Northstar
You're very right, take your first post for instance! You sit there and decry Trump's racism, than say something that is rather racist in itself.

We very much do have a problem in this country, posts like your first one most certainly do nothing to help.
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So it's racist to call out racism now? How is it racist to acknowledge that armed, crazed, and entitled white men can be a threat and that they make up the majority of mass shootings. Obviously, they are the most empowered by the ever-popular wave of alt-right extremism.

If I said that Muslims or "gang members" were the biggest threat, surely that would be fine and not racist, right? It's only controversial when it's white men who are being called out, and I say this as a white male of privilege.
 
GranTurNismo
So it's racist to call out racism now? How is it racist to acknowledge that armed, crazed, and entitled white men can be a threat and that they make up the majority of mass shootings. Obviously, they are the most empowered by the ever-popular wave of alt-right extremism.
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Calling any race the "real" problem is racist. Saying white people are the problem because they commit the most mass shootings is no less racist than saying black people are because they commit most gang violence. It's all racist it doesn't suddenly change because of your political views.
 
Northstar
Calling any race the "real" problem is racist. Saying white people are the problem because they commit the most mass shootings is no less racist than saying black people are because they commit most gang violence. It's all racist it doesn't suddenly change because of your political views.
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I didn't say "white people", what I said was "armed, crazed, and entitled white men", technically a small (but vocal) minority of white people. You're right, blaming an entire race for a certain tragedy would be inaccurate and could be racist, and that, I simply did not do.
 
GranTurNismo
I didn't say "white people", what I said "armed, crazed, and entitled white men", technically a small (but vocal) minority of white people.
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That literally makes 0 difference and in fact reminds me of Trump's "some, I'm sure, are good people" quote.

We have a violence problem, it's not just one race either, it's all of them! Until people realize this, nothing will change and my belief that people don't want it to will only strengthen.
 
Northstar
That literally makes 0 difference and in fact reminds me of Trump's "some, I'm sure, are good people" quote.

We have a violence problem, it's not just one race either, it's all of them! Until people realize this, nothing will change and my belief that people don't want it to will only strengthen.
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It makes all the difference. Calling out a small, violent subset of a group is not nearly the same as calling out the entire group. For example, it's perfectly okay to call out radical Islamic terrorists (a minuscule portion of Muslims), but obviously not okay to call out Muslims in general or Islam as a religion. The former is a normal reaction to an act of terror, the latter is a racist, bigoted generalization.

The second part of your statement though, I wholeheartedly agree with. We do have a violence problem, which is principally rooted in entitlement, anger, lack of mental health services, poverty, drug addiction, alcohol addiction, patriarchy/toxic masculinity, neocolonialism, racism, extreme political and socioeconomic divides, the popularization of harmful, bigoted rhetoric, and so many more factors. There's no reason that in all of Europe, Oceania, and Brazil combined, only five mass shootings happened this year, but in just one country alone, America, there has been roughly 250 of them.
 
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I live in El Paso, about 10 minutes from where the incident took place and all day long I have been receiving texts and calls from friends and family asking to see if I was ok. Coincidentally, I was at the mall last night picking up my new laptop and I wake up and see this.
 
GranTurNismo
It makes all the difference. Calling out a small, violent subset of a group is not nearly the same as calling out the entire group. For example, it's perfectly okay to call out radical Islamic terrorists (a minuscule portion of Muslims), but obviously not okay to call out Muslims in general or Islam as a religion. The former is a normal reaction to an act of terror, the latter is a racist, bigoted generalization.
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It might be slightly less racist, but it's still racist. For reference, look up Avenue Q's everyone is a little bit racist. I would post it, but my connection is t good enough to check for any naughty words right now.

The second part of your statement though, I wholeheartedly agree with. We do have a violence problem, which is principally rooted in entitlement, anger, lack of mental health services, poverty, patriarchy/toxic masculinity, neocolonialism, racism, extreme political and socioeconomic divides, the popularization of harmful, bigoted rhetoric, and so many more factors.
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Drugs also play a role.
 
Northstar
We have a violence problem, it's not just one race either, it's all of them! Until people realize this, nothing will change and my belief that people don't want it to will only strengthen.
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when it comes to mass shootings such as this or terrorist extremist type attacks in USA there is no doubts as to who is doing the killing .

murder in general in USA is being done by everyone but when it comes to this type of shooting and or extremist type violence , it is white rightwing leaning nationalists/ extremists. the ratio is not even close
 
I am predicting a bleak US future of increasing fascism combined with increasing socialism. This will lead via multiple parallel paths to a constitutional crisis, regional rebellion and break-up of the union. Those who are organized, well-funded, etc. will do the best in the testing time to come.
 
Novalee
when it comes to mass shootings such as this or terrorist extremist type attacks in USA there is no doubts as to who is doing the killing .

murder in general in USA is being done by everyone but when it comes to this type of shooting and or extremist type violence , it is white rightwing leaning nationalists/ extremists. the ratio is not even close
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So only murders done by white people need to be addressed? I'm not really sure what you're getting at here to be honest.
 
Northstar
So only murders done by white people need to be addressed? I'm not really sure what you're getting at here to be honest.
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I think they're just suggesting that it's an epidemic. Things along the nature of this need to be looked at. Anecdotal coming from me, but I recall reading that white males, after a certain age, are more prone to depression. I just looked it up online for a moment and found this quote from an article by HuffPost (iffy in reputation), but provides quotes from psychiatrists, lists their workplace, study, etc.

I think that it could be correlated, but correlation is nothing without proof, so this is just me doing a little looking around.

White men were experiencing the least stress in their lives," lead study author Dr. Shervin Assari, a research investigator at the University of Michigan Department of Psychiatry, told The Huffington Post. "They don’t get a lot of it and they are not used to it, so they are more prone to its harmful effects.

Logically, people who haven't dealt with stressful life events, or who have encountered them infrequently, lack the coping mechanisms and support systems that develop when overcoming hardship. Social support and religion, for example, are proven and effective coping mechanisms for dealing with stress.
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That's just one article which talks about this. There are plenty more throughout the internet. I know a counter-argument against this could be "There are a lot of privileged people who aren't white that likely suffer the same problems.", but with how disproportionate the United States is in terms of its racial, economic and social climate, it's foolish to ignore.

Me using this article isn't me trying to paint everyone with one brush, I'm just looking at the facts of the matter. The biggest issue, in my mind, is the overall lack of mental health advocacy.
 
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It says alot when over 20 people have been killed in a Mass shooting and this thread can't hit two pages.

It's almost not even news at this point, America has massive issues with Mental health and overt nationalism which are probably combined in alot of cases.
 
Northstar
We have a violence problem, it's not just one race either, it's all of them! Until people realize this, nothing will change and my belief that people don't want it to will only strengthen.
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Indeed, as a 3rd party viewer of US affairs, I can very much see a triad effect with the hatred within the USA's three largest demographics. Whites, Blacks, and Latinos are always at each other's throats.
That being said, per individual case, whites do create the largest number of casualties, and are therefore the biggest threat when we do fall to extremism. African and Latino hate crime is prevalent, but one doesn't often hear of them taking out a dozen or more people on their own. Not on this continent anyway.
Regardless, all these hateful types all share that same motivation, that being an unbridled hatred of one another. When such hateful people decide to act, people focus too much on the what, when it is the why that will end this for good. Kill the motivation, kill the extremism.

Anyhow, nobody here has been necessarily wrong thus far. I just think that you're taking GranTurNismo's buzzwords the wrong way. I can see why, considering that it IS the kind of hateful rhetoric the far-left tends to use against the moderate right, but in this case, there is no denying the truth of it. This was very much a white, far-right, racist extremist. One who believed that democrats are bringing an influx of Latinos into the country as future voters, turning Texas blue, and throwing the country into a state of eternal democratic rule. So like any idiot, he decides to kill twenty of them, as if that'd change anything at all. If anything, this'll only reinforce opposing public/politician views on the matter, and make his fear ever closer to becoming a reality.

One thing's for sure though. He'll be seeing a fair few Latinos where he's going, and he won't have a gun to hide behind this time.
 
GranTurNismo
Armed, crazed, entitled white men are and have been the biggest and most serious threat in the United States, more so than any other identity or group. They account for over 65% of mass shootings, yet Trump and the media claim that illegal immigrants, African Americans and Muslims cause the most crime and that they are the “real problem”. We can’t truly end this crisis and reach a solution until we acknowledge who the real terrorists are, and that these people are empowered by Trump’s racist and extreme rhetoric as well as by radical alt right/ white nationalist groups which are increasingly become more popular and vocal. What a damn shame. People in my country can’t even go to a WalMart without worrying that a crazed mass shooter will kill them.
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Are there any statistics that prove "armed, crazed, entitled white men" are a more serious threat than armed and crazed men of any other races??
 
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As @Danoff has said, the United States has a serious violence problem. It must be addressed and can't be ignored with 250+ mass shootings this year so far.

I hope @Keef is alright and wonder if he can shed light on the shooting in Dayton, OH where a further nine people were killed yesterday.
 
Rest in Peace to all the victims.

What a waste of life.

I hope some common sense happens regarding guns. I'll be honest I like guns even if Im an Australian but there should be laws and regulations.

Also it feels like guns are a religion in the USA.
 
MaxAttack
Something must be done about mental health and firearms.
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Wide sweeping mental health evaluation and treatment is impossible and when you think you've identified an individual as "safe" they just change their mind. We have parents killing their own children.
It pains me to say this as I'm a licensed conceal/carry gun owner, but the only effective measure government can take is ammunition control. The bump stocks, 25 round banana clips and ammo stock piling is unnecessary. The question congress needs to ask is how many rounds do you need to hunt, or protect your family. Establish a nationwide database that monitors all ammo purchases, tighten the gaps that occur at gun shows. Yes, folks can make rounds at home but it's not easy.

Murders will still be occurring long after we're gone we have to control how many people one individual can harm. I don't hunt and have 10 rounds for my 9mm which is plenty for protection.
 
DesertPenguin
Someone will go to the lengths of facilitating the process and production on a larger scale for private market. Sad but true.
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No doubt, at which point officials find the snitches to take it down which becomes similar to our war on drugs and we all see how non-effective that is.
I just don't see any way out of this EVER.
What was that Tom Cruise movie where they could see a murder before it occurred and make the arrest? Maybe advanced technology like that far off in the future would end it, today we just helplessly watch the news.
 
Or just do what Australia did and get rid of firearms. If you hunt, you have to go through a much tougher process and you can only get your gun and ammo from an officially designated store. You only get access to your gun when you are going on a hunting trip. Otherwise it's locked up there and you have to get it. You also have to fill out paperwork to get your hunting trip approved so they approve the gun, etc. Sounds good right?
 

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