Megadrought in the US West; Worst in 1200 Years?

[Dotini]

The last few years I've seen - unprecedented in my lifetime - forest fire smoke from Canada or California penetrate over Seattle for extended weeks during the summer. Other states have had it much, much worse than mine. And it looks set to become worse yet. The headlines say worst in 1000 years, and now worst in 1200 years. What that might really mean in near-term disruption to the economy and lifestyle of the region or the nation, I do not know.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/18/us-heatwave-west-climate-crisis-drought

 

[Joey D]

We could, as a human race, accept that climate change is real and something that needs to be tackled. Whether it's influenced by humans or not, it's still very much a problem and something that needs to be studied and have solutions found. We have the collective intelligence to do it, we just need to put forth the effort and fund it appropriately. I'm of the mind that humans do influence climate change,. but I also accept that some of it are likely due to the cycles of the Earth. It's an easier time to address the human element, so we should probably start there.

As for water, it's imperative that we come up with an efficient, cost-effective way to desalinize water. Build these plants along the coast and pipe the water where it needs to be. If we can send oil thousands of miles without issue, we can do so with water.

Power production needs to switch to make use of these new conditions. The west has gigantic areas with nothing in them that are hot, sunny, and dry. Build solar power stations there and use them to power the cities instead of relying on fossil fuels. Here in Salt Lake, the lake itself could easily support a nuclear power station too.

Areas in drought conditions need to take a good hard look at their industries too. Here in Utah, we grow alfalfa, which is one of the thirstiest crops making it extremely water-intensive. We don't have the water to sustain that, nor do we have the water to sustain huge cattle herds. We need to switch to a less water-intensive crop and probably switch to chickens or something for livestock. I get that you can't just ask farmers to quit farming, but you can make it prohibitively expensive for them to grow water-intensive crops. What's even worse is that a majority of our alfalfa doesn't even make it into the stomachs of American cows. It gets shipped to Asia since the quality of it sucks. Unfortunately, Gov Cox is an alfalfa farmer and wouldn't dream of doing anything to upset his homies.

Assuming none of that works, then the US government really needs to figure out a way to relocate people over the next 100 years.

 

[Keef]

The west has gigantic areas with nothing in them that are hot, sunny, and dry. Build solar power stations there and use them to power the cities instead of relying on fossil fuels.

And every single city has empty warehouse roofs sitting idle. Solar panels.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

And every single city has empty warehouse roofs sitting idle. Solar panels.

Bay area, at least, is on this path.

As of 2017, San Francisco mandates 15% and 30% of roof space on most new construction projects incorporate solar, living roofs, or a combination of both.

I'm pretty sure Oakland has something similar.

 

[Dotini]

Are their any solar desalination plants in in North America?

 

[Keef]

Are their any solar desalination plants in in North America?

I'm not sure what you mean. Desalinization is rare as it is but it doesn't really matter how they're powered as long as it's renewable.

 

[Joey D]

Are their any solar desalination plants in in North America?

Do you mean like a traditional reverse osmosis desalination plant powered by solar energy, or like a large-scale solar desalination plant that uses thermal energy?

There are small-scale solar desalination plants, but I can only think of one large-ish scale one in Abu Dhabi. I'm not sure how many traditional desalination plants use solar energy though, but if I had to take a guess, it would be less than 5%.

 

[Dotini]

For convenience, here is a Western Drought Megathread from reddit, linking to a wide range of relevant content:

 

[Dotini]

Solar X-VAP technology may be one way out of the mega drought.

 

[Danoff]

Solar X-VAP technology may be one way out of the mega drought.

They put all of their money into research and development, and had approximately $3 left for marketing. At least that's what I hope, because that was a terrible presentation.

 

[Dotini]

They put all of their money into research and development, and had approximately $3 left for marketing. At least that's what I hope, because that was a terrible presentation.

You're right. I had to dig like a gopher in order to find this.

 

[Keef]

 

[Dotini]

This video says the UN is warning that 2/3 the world population will live in water scarce regions by 2025, and that water wars are coming.

 

[Keef]

Water conflicts could very easily be avoided within America if the dozens of billions of dollars in old mans' pockets were rerouted toward desalinization and renewable energy.

The US should institute a personal wealth cap of $1 billion. Anything above is taxed 100% and divvied up to fund future-focused public works like sustainable water, power, education, etc. The US should lead the world in these technologies, there's absolutely no reason why that isn't possible.

 

[Danoff]

Water conflicts could very easily be avoided within America if the dozens of billions of dollars in old mans' pockets were rerouted toward desalinization and renewable energy.

The US should institute a personal wealth cap of $1 billion. Anything above is taxed 100% and divvied up to fund future-focused public works like sustainable water, power, education, etc. The US should lead the world in these technologies, there's absolutely no reason why that isn't possible.

..except the constitution and the fact that it's not a good idea. Other than that sure.

 

[Keef]

..except the constitution and the fact that it's not a good idea. Other than that sure.

Then the people should pressure and boycott and riot and be otherwise disobedient until the wealth and class systems these people control become crippled and change is forced to happen.

 

[Danoff]

Then the people should pressure and boycott and riot and be otherwise disobedient until the wealth and class systems these people control become crippled and change is forced to happen.

Riot? What class system?

You've mixed two issues which I know are important to you into one, but the two issues really need not be mixed. One issue is climate change. The other issue is inequality of outcome. Climate change can be addressed in many ways, including, and especially, fees or bans on pollutants - especially air pollution, which cannot reasonably limited to one's property and necessarily impacts the property rights of everyone else. I personally prefer fees to bans, simply because occasionally there is a really really good reason to do even just a tiny amount of pollution, and it might be worth the money.

The issue of inequality of outcome is not really one to address in principle. Inequality of outcome is a guarantee of any fair system. If you want to get more tax revenue out of billionaires, advocate instead for a flat tax (for which there is a constitutional argument) or the simplification of the tax code. There's basically zero constitutional (or moral) basis for a wealth cap, and the economic case is even worse.

 

[Keef]

One issue is climate change. The other issue is inequality of outcome.

Found the non-intersectionalist.

All of these issues are directly related. Dayton put its land fills and water treatment plants on the west side of the city, same area that was redlined, same area they never built the highway loop, same area all the black people still live in, same area that has remained poor for decades, same area where EPA superfund sites exist, etc. Literally all of the modern issues we deal with today from racism to the environment is related and virtually all of them point directly to corporatism. Our society has been formed around the idea of making money and most of our problems are a direct result of that.

The poorer classes in America the world have no power to do anything except try to ruin the game for the few players at the top.

 

[Danoff]

Found the non-intersectionalist.

All of these issues are directly related. Dayton put its land fills and water treatment plants on the west side of the city, same area that was redlined, same area they never built the highway loop, same area all the black people still live in, same area that has remained poor for decades, same area where EPA superfund sites exist, etc. Literally all of the modern issues we deal with today from racism to the environment is related and virtually all of them point directly to corporatism. Our society has been formed around the idea of making money and most of our problems are a direct result of that.

The poorer classes in America the world have no power to do anything except try to ruin the game for the few players at the top.

It's a steady drum beat of class warfare.

Sure, multiple issues can show up in the same geographical location, or within the same country, or even the same person. But the issues of climate change and inequality of outcome do not have to be linked. You're the intersection.

 

[Joey D]

Utah’s Great Salt Lake has been shrinking for years. Now it faces a drought

The receding water is affecting wildlife and could send arsenic-laced dust into the air that millions breathe

www.theguardian.com

"Winds can whip up dust from the dry lakebed that is laced with naturally occurring arsenic, said Kevin Perry, a University of Utah atmospheric scientist."

So along with having some of the most polluted air in the country, we also might get arsenic dust storms. We're all just going to get cancer, aren't we?

 

[Danoff]

Utah’s Great Salt Lake has been shrinking for years. Now it faces a drought

The receding water is affecting wildlife and could send arsenic-laced dust into the air that millions breathe

www.theguardian.com

"Winds can whip up dust from the dry lakebed that is laced with naturally occurring arsenic, said Kevin Perry, a University of Utah atmospheric scientist."

So along with having some of the most polluted air in the country, we also might get arsenic dust storms. We're all just going to get cancer, aren't we?

Don't throw away that mask.

 

[Dotini]

Utah’s Great Salt Lake has been shrinking for years. Now it faces a drought

The receding water is affecting wildlife and could send arsenic-laced dust into the air that millions breathe

www.theguardian.com

"Winds can whip up dust from the dry lakebed that is laced with naturally occurring arsenic, said Kevin Perry, a University of Utah atmospheric scientist."

So along with having some of the most polluted air in the country, we also might get arsenic dust storms. We're all just going to get cancer, aren't we?

Brilliant. Maybe Brigham Young was wrong after all, SLC is the wrong place, and the Mormons need to continue their migration?

 

[Darla Starch]

arsenic dust storms

So Utah is the new Australia, I assume?

 

[MIE1992]

Someone made a Groudon hold a Red Orb and sent it into battle, that's what.

 

[Dotini]

Lake Mead comes into focus:

 

[MIE1992]

Did someone send out a Primal Groudon or something?

 

[Dotini]

Step by step the megadrought gathers pace across the American West. The farmers will be first to be seriously affected.

 

[Keef]

Imagine if drinking water wasn't even a factor in a drought like this because it was all desalinated.

I wonder how much energy it would take to desalinate all potable water for the entire state.

Edit: Just to be clear I'm getting really tired of hearing about all this. These people have chosen to live in dry, water-scarce areas. They chose to live in the desert. They chose to live where a rain storm can start fires rather than put them out. And now these videos imply that reservoirs like Mead will stop flowing and their hydroelectric dams will stop generating, straining already strained power grids, requiring power to be sourced from elsewhere, and now suddenly just keeping the West afloat becomes an Ohioan's problem. I don't like that. Everything's fine here, we've designed our society to deal with the problems we have. Clearly the West did not prepare for the inevitable, and they keep packing more and more people in each day because the "weather is nice" or whatever.

Get it together, West. I don't want to hear that electricity is having to be pumped from the Midwest so y'all can keep the lights on in your weed dispensaries. Somebody needs to do a better job of sourcing water and electricity over yonder. I've got AC, I've got heat, I've got water, and I don't see what's so hard about any of that. This is like a Texas cold spell except I've been hearing about it constantly my entire life and nobody did anything to fix it.

 

[Joey D]

These people have chosen to live in dry, water-scarce areas.

It's not so much about living here, but rather people choose to farm in the desert which is just stupid. For example, something like 10% of all water usage in Utah is for personal consumption. Everything thing else goes towards farming, livestock, and industry which is just absurd. We wouldn't have a water problem if we didn't feel the need to grow water-intensive crops like alfalfa. The snow every year would more than sustain us without issue.

California has a similar problem with agriculture, particularly crops like almonds which is one of the most water-intensive crops there are.

We need to rethink our food, or shift production to areas where it makes sense.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Arizona is getting drenched right now. It rained all morning here, standing water everywhere. More supposed to be coming tonight/tomorrow.