[Mod] Gran Turismo 2 plus (bug fixes, restored content and new content) - beta 7 released

  • Thread starter pez2k
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I'm not sure pez has or will do any name changes on cars that have a "new" menu entry because we can't edit the that screen's name.
If i recall correctly, pez already has everything he plans to include in GT2+ mapped out already.
 
Is it possible to enforce whitelisting/restrictions on some championships, such as the 80's cup and 4door cup, similarly to manufacturer races and BHP limited entries, so that you wouldn't have kiddies flexing on AIs at the muscle car cup with their R34s?
 
More cars need to be available for displacement increase tune ups as well. We all know that muscle cars are perfect for this in reality so having that expressed in the game is a necessity. The muscle cars need more hp in general when tuned considering how much hp they make in real life.

I also agree with Masgel on the entry restrictions in races. 4 Door cup should only allow sedans and 80's cup likewise with 80's cars and so on.
 
Masgel
Is it possible to enforce whitelisting/restrictions on some championships, such as the 80's cup and 4door cup, similarly to manufacturer races and BHP limited entries, so that you wouldn't have kiddies flexing on AIs at the muscle car cup with their R34s?
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Apart from horsepower checks, the game only checks for drivetrain (for FF, FR, 4WD, and Midship Challenges) and engine aspiration (for NA/Turbo races). Doing this requires building an eligible car list for each event, and there's a limit on how much cars can fit inside the eligible car list.
 
Masgel
Is it possible to enforce whitelisting/restrictions on some championships, such as the 80's cup and 4door cup, similarly to manufacturer races and BHP limited entries, so that you wouldn't have kiddies flexing on AIs at the muscle car cup with their R34s?
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The only restrictions that the game supports are NA / Turbo, drivetrain, normal / racing modified, power limits, and whitelists of up to 16 models. The whitelists are too short to be of any use for of the more general events, hence why they're only really used for manufacturer races.

I also don't see it being a problem that people can enter whatever cars they'd like - it's optional to give yourself the challenge of doing it 'properly', but if someone is not as skilled or does not have the time to buy and tune an appropriate car, they can still enjoy the game.

Raine
More cars need to be available for displacement increase tune ups as well.
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That's not a bug, it seems to be have been a fairly deliberate choice to only allow displacement upgrades for cars powered by a Nissan RB, Honda B16A / B16B, or BMC A-series engine.

I spent a while researching realistic displacement upgrades for a similar Forza 4 mod some years ago, and the research alone takes many, many months to do displacement upgrades accurately.
 
At least stuff like what Masgel and I were talking about are for the most part fixed in GT4. I just think it's rather odd that they made all these events and didn't bother putting restrictions on entries. Money wouldn't even be an issue though. For the four door cup you can enter the Mugen Accord SIR-T won from the first FF cup it handles well and is capable of winning the more powerful Chaser you get from the Clubman R5 race that can then be used to win the final race. For the Station Wagon Cup just use the Impreza Wagon GT-B won from the first 4wd race. For the Pure Sports Car cup one can use the TRD 2000GT won from the first MR event or the Mazdspeed RX-7 won from the final FR cup. In essence a lot of the events could have restrictions and still be cost effective to enter. The only exception for this being the manufacturer events that for some reason were programmed to have the restrictions the other races should have also had.

It's not my rom mod though so who am I to say.
 
Unless there are unused flags we're not aware of that do allow for restricting o a certain type of car, like pez said, it's just not possible at all to enforce championship/cup restrictions sadly.
Also @pez2k the car entry restriction lists have 32 slots, 16 is for the ai opponents choices.
But anyways, as pez said, and even with 32 possible slots, there's always gonna be some cars that can't be entered that should be entered and so PD decided to not use them that way.
 
submaniac93
Unless there are unused flags we're not aware of that do allow for restricting o a certain type of car, like pez said, it's just not possible at all to enforce championship/cup restrictions sadly.
Also @pez2k the car entry restriction lists have 32 slots, 16 is for the ai opponents choices.
But anyways, as pez said, and even with 32 possible slots, there's always gonna be some cars that can't be entered that should be entered and so PD decided to not use them that way.
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Like the Sil80 and the Drag 180SX on the Silvia event?
 
I guess it goes without saying that everyone that follows mods like this are waiting on major breakthroughs on ways to modify the game files. Even if it's for the smallest of changes.
 
Jomaf
Is possible to add or change racing events in the game? And thank you for doing this mod
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It's certainly possible to modify them. In theory it's possible to add new events, but without being able to modify the menus to actually allow the player to enter the new events they're a bit useless. I suspect it would cause problems with the completion percentage too, allowing more than 100% completion.

Masgel
I guess it goes without saying that everyone that follows mods like this are waiting on major breakthroughs on ways to modify the game files. Even if it's for the smallest of changes.
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Yeah, the problem is that I'm just about the only person writing GT2 tools, and so I have to choose between GT2+ development, tool development, or having any amount of a personal life. Currently tool development is the lowest priority out of the three, although there are a few things I want to investigate after the new GT2+ release.
 
Just take your time. I do understand that quite a bit of time is passing, but there really isn't anything significant that can be done. Maybe other than just spreading the word that this mod and it's development actually exist.
 
I think spreading the word at "romhacking.net forums" might garner more interest myself.
 
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pez2k
That's not a bug, it seems to be have been a fairly deliberate choice to only allow displacement upgrades for cars powered by a Nissan RB, Honda B16A / B16B, or BMC A-series engine.

I spent a while researching realistic displacement upgrades for a similar Forza 4 mod some years ago, and the research alone takes many, many months to do displacement upgrades accurately.
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I always found it weird that they have this specific upgrade choice for only a handful of cars, instead of just tacking the horsepower gain to the Stage 3 NA Tuning for those cars. I can't remember but I don't think they changed the engine displacement in the spec sheet either when you apply this upgrade.

Another weird upgrade is Yaw Controller for Prelude despite it being FF and not 4WD like all the other cars that can receive it (mostly Lancers).
 
Exactly, yeah - it's actually accurate to have AYC on that specific Prelude (the Type-S '96). It's the only car outside of the Evo 4/5/6 and Galant / Legnum VR-4 to get the upgrade.
 
Wow I just looked that up.. the 1997 Prelude Type S does indeed have a yaw control system in the car. That was innovative of Honda to incorporate that into their FF sedan.
 
pez2k
I don't think there's much else for the JGTC cars specifically
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Just a suggestion but is there anyway to handicap the RE Amemiya RX-7? This car is way too fast compared to other GT300 JGTC cars. In real life it was the slowest competitor for whatever reason and hardly made top five in it's class. It only won in the GT300 class overall in 2006 after 7 YEARS of attempts because it's main rivals that beat all the time(Autobacs Apex MR-2 and S as well as the Garai, and Silvia's) didn't enter that season. If they did I'm sure RE Amemiya RX-7 would have failed probably in last place again as usual hahaha. The Re RX-7 was an utter motorsports failure in all metrics and thus should be expressed as such in GT2.

I hate to say this because I like RX-7s but in all honesty third gen rx-7's were horrible in racing. I'm not sure if it's the car or the drivers or both.. but whatever that case third gens failed to live up to the legacy of it's first generation big brother in racing success.

No I'm not being a smartarse I'm just honestly thinking that they made the RE Amemiya too good.

By the way is the Lister Storm V12's being overweight issue fixed in this. In real life the Storm V12 Race Car was 2478lbs or so not the 2788 or whatever it is in GT2. It was also really fast in real life and deserves that glory in GT2.. the exact model we have in game seemed to have the best record as well, here's a link...

https://www.racingsportscars.com/type/photo/Lister/Storm.html

^ as you all can see all the yellow and green scheme Lister Storms have astounding race records and first place qualifying lap times. So please I hope it's weight is fixed. Granted even with the extra weight I can win any race in GT2 with it but it should be faster but it can't be because the weight mistake.
 
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Raine
Just a suggestion but is there anyway to handicap the RE Amemiya RX-7?
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By the way is the Lister Storm V12's being overweight issue fixed in this. In real life the Storm V12 Race Car was 2478lbs or so not the 2788 or whatever it is in GT2.
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The RX-7, not sure really. I've not looked at it thoroughly to check for any typos in the physics data, but I suspect PD were happy with it being so fast.

As for the Storm, none of the RMs that look like real racers are anywhere close to accurate in terms of physics. The weight for the Storm is already a little optimistic in GT2 (it's a four-seat luxury grand tourer with a 7-litre V12 and twin superchargers after all), but is correct to the period brochure, assuming of course that Lister weren't listing dry weight or any of the other common practices from supercar manufacturers.
 
About the Rx7 maybe the real redline is higher, so in that way the car was able to have a little bit more of torque, since is more less known that the rotary engines have an abysmally low torque compared with a typical piston engine
 
About all JGTC, WRC and most other race cars, the culprit is the power output PD gave those cars, not anything special. Essentially, hose cars are in "unrestricted" mode and the RX7 is the second most powerful GT300 car, behind the Impreza. It's seemingly overpoweredness is a byproduct of that.

The cars need entire rework in order to have relatively accurate specs, but even then, without hundreds of hours spent analyzing every car, you ca't expect 100% accurate to real life specs.

And as pez said, all RM weights are vastly inaccurate to some extent. And so cars like the Storm are affected as well.
 
pez2k
The RX-7, not sure really. I've not looked at it thoroughly to check for any typos in the physics data, but I suspect PD were happy with it being so fast.

As for the Storm, none of the RMs that look like real racers are anywhere close to accurate in terms of physics. The weight for the Storm is already a little optimistic in GT2 (it's a four-seat luxury grand tourer with a 7-litre V12 and twin superchargers after all), but is correct to the period brochure, assuming of course that Lister weren't listing dry weight or any of the other common practices from supercar manufacturers.
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The Lister Storm GT Race Car in real life was only only 2425lbs according to this site among others... https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/spec/3947/Lister-Storm-GT.html

that's what I was referring to. PD did get the weight of the Storm V12 Road Car correct though when it's stock. Considering that they made the player be able to weight reduce and racing mod the car it would go to reason that it should have had the weight of the real world race car. Or better yet having the Lister GT race car as a special car separate from the normal road care each with their respective real life specs. They even managed to get the weight wrong again in GT3 as well which is worse because the car in that game is called Lister Storm V12 Race Car. So I assume they just got the weight wrong by lack of research. Which is why I figured a fix would be neat.
 
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Raine
PD did get the weight of the Storm V12 Road Car correct though when it's stock. Considering that they made the player be able to weight reduce and racing mod the car it would go to reason that it should have had the weight of the real world race car.
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What I'm saying though is that the same is true for every other racing modification in the game. The 406 RM that looks like the BTCC supertourer does not weigh the same (or even have the same engine), the March RM that looks like the March R racecar does not weigh the same, the Astra RM that looks like the WRC kitcar does not weigh the same, the C2 Corvette RM that looks like a Grand Sport does not weigh the same, and so on.

These are homages to the real cars, and not meant to be an accurate depiction of that racecar. If I was to make them all weigh the same amount as the racecars that they were inspired by, I'd be changing the physics for virtually every single RM in the game, and it would take years just to research, never mind implement.

For the question of why PD didn't make plenty of standalone racecars instead of RMs, I presume that's because that would almost double their workload in terms of making car physics, and GT2 was already on a tight schedule. It would also mean a lot less RMs in the game, which would be a step back from GT1. It could have also cost more to license, as doing a look-alike livery on the road car is technically not the same as licensing both the road and racecars.

It's also worth mentioning as an aside that the 1100kg figure listed on that website for the Storm GT1 is (I believe) the class minimum dry weight, minus fuel and driver. Most cars in GT2 seem to use wet / kerb weights, so the car would probably be closer to 1200kg at least, assuming that Lister did manage to get it down to the minimum weight, which isn't always possible. In GTR2 for example, it runs at 1180kg plus fuel weight (which is simulated unlike GT2).
 

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