- 1,291
- Vermont, USA
- GTP_Superwally, supahwally
Good thread. Even Famine is ranting purple. Priceless.
NASCAR Racer Says Esports Race Team Deals Make "Real Race Car Drivers Want To Puke"
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 126 comments
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- 84,383
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Discussing, and in indigo.
- 1,424
- Kansas City/MO/US
- BallPtPenTheif
- BallPtPenTheif
It's just typical old guard gatekeeping. I've been guilty of it in cinematography (although, a videographer really doesn't know how to expose for a celluloid negative) but now I've had to learn videography in order to keep up with the industry and to stay employed. After getting over myself I've learned to respect videographers and their craft as much as I respect cinematography. He'll come around too, he'll have no choice. Everything is changing and thankfully it's all for the better.
- 293
- Antarctica
It is gatekeeping and probably more ( frustration, getting old, perceived or real lack of recognition ).
But as inflammatory as that opinion was articulated I also agree that sim racers should support grassroots motorsport and personally also don't have much respect for those just playing whatever sim racing game, and not supporting real motor sports in any way. I get teen agers can't support it, but grown men with the means to help really should, without support all motorsport will die, because the general public just doesn't give a rats ass, it is already seen as fox hunting.
- 95
- New Zealand
Meh. I see the sense in that eSports is being touted as the new biggest fad and is pushing out grassroots motorsport, but such an archaic and offensive stance is clearly not the way to go. Seems the discussion in this thread is as two-minded as myself, lol.
- 1,424
- Kansas City/MO/US
- BallPtPenTheif
- BallPtPenTheif
Sim racers didn't create the barriers to entry, the race culture did. Obviously there is cost, but there's also a closed off clandestine network of drivers, sponsors, and crews who are familiar with each other through generational long ties. My uncle built his own truck to enter the Baja 500 totally bypassing all but the financial barriers (as did some other drivers) and what did the sport do? They revised the specs and continued to move the goal posts further and further away from accessibility.
It's common for people to view their commitment to clearing those barriers as a "right of passage" and a proof of determination. But it isn't. It's just political gatekeeping and just barriers to entry. These same barriers create a cycle of continually restrictive gate keeping, which creates a culture of diminishing returns (in terms of new incoming drivers).
Sim racing removes practically all of those barriers and people who have suffered to clear those real world barriers resent sim drivers, falsely believing that the sim drivers didn't properly surpass their own "right of passage". Ultimately, it's silly. Whoever is faster wins regardless of how they obtained those skills and anything that increases the pool of new incoming drivers is inarguably good for the support.
- 63
- United States
Well, as many of you mention e-sports is probably their last best hope to keeping their sport going in terms of fan interest. Nascar will probably die off anyways within 20 years but e-sports at least get new fans in. My kids don't care about cars, much less racing (even my 20 year old). Cars are just not a part of many teenagers world any more other than being a necessary evil. Simracing is probably the best hope of getting them interested in car racing.
The statements by these guys are just sour and ignorant and attitudes like that will soon have them back to only racing their buddies around the dirt lots for bragging rights and beer.
The statements by these guys are just sour and ignorant and attitudes like that will soon have them back to only racing their buddies around the dirt lots for bragging rights and beer.
- 12,734
- Seattle-ish
This is sadly very true. There was a study a few years ago in Japan that showed young people were far more interested in social media than in getting a car. Cars are expensive to buy, operate, maintain, but social media is just sitting there on your phone whenever you want it. Need to connect with people? Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, text, whatever. Need to actually see someone? Take a train or a bus. It's so much less expensive. That attitude isn't just for the Japanese any more. Young Americans are increasingly feeling the same way. And if people aren't growing up as car guys/girls, then they're not going to become race fans, either. So you've got the dual problem of racing being too expensive for new racers to break into, and no one growing up to be race fans to watch them.
- 3,195
- Connecticut.
- mwoodski
- mwoodski
I mean I'm a part of the "young guy car culture" thing that's supposedly dying but I can tell you from experience it really isn't.
old guy muscle car culture is dying simply because most of us young guys don't care about them and the old folks have priced them way outta the attainable range.
old guy muscle car culture is dying simply because most of us young guys don't care about them and the old folks have priced them way outta the attainable range.
- 1,994
- Ontario
- bloodyboyblue
Yeah car culture is absolutely not dying, just evolving. That said, I know a ton of young people who are into cars, but very very low single digits who care about racing (real or virtual). A number of them are into autocross but that’s stretching the definition of racing, and they definitely aren’t watching any on TV. And the older people (my parents included) who I know who love racing definitely are not car people. They’re definitely two seperate interests.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,253
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
The guy who used to run PRC are having an absolute field day with this.
Personally, while I'd like sim racing esports to be more popular, I think it's a wee bit soon to be holding actual media days like this. Even iRacing isn't that popular in the grand scheme of gaming and racing fans except the real hardcore ones. GT Sport are also in the same position. I think the whole community is just starting to gain traction and you should just allow the popularity to evolve naturally instead of forcing it on the wider public like this. Nothing screams desperation than a media day for people who nobody's heard of.
At the end of the day, racing in real life still has the danger and physical element that sim racing doesn't, so it will always be held in higher regard. Sim racing though has a wider talent pool and unlimited practice time, making it harder to be the absolute best. Each has its own strengths and weakness and as long as both sides can respect that and coexist, supplementing each other will be the best outcome in my book. We are all passionate about the same thing, so let's all get along eh?
Personally, while I'd like sim racing esports to be more popular, I think it's a wee bit soon to be holding actual media days like this. Even iRacing isn't that popular in the grand scheme of gaming and racing fans except the real hardcore ones. GT Sport are also in the same position. I think the whole community is just starting to gain traction and you should just allow the popularity to evolve naturally instead of forcing it on the wider public like this. Nothing screams desperation than a media day for people who nobody's heard of.
At the end of the day, racing in real life still has the danger and physical element that sim racing doesn't, so it will always be held in higher regard. Sim racing though has a wider talent pool and unlimited practice time, making it harder to be the absolute best. Each has its own strengths and weakness and as long as both sides can respect that and coexist, supplementing each other will be the best outcome in my book. We are all passionate about the same thing, so let's all get along eh?
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- 126
- United States
- Marius789
You could always put a massive fan in front of you and have people surrounding your rig moving it all around when you’re racing. When you crash, they can flip you over.
Would you guys consider it real then?
lol I believe racing is racing. No matter what format, platform etc. We all know virtual racing is here to stay and motorsports is evolving.
Edit: Forgot about motion rigs. If they had that ability.
Would you guys consider it real then?
lol I believe racing is racing. No matter what format, platform etc. We all know virtual racing is here to stay and motorsports is evolving.
Edit: Forgot about motion rigs. If they had that ability.
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- 84,383
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
- 24,608
- Anoka, MN
- 84,383
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Does watching people who are much better than me at something become require the thing to be tangible? How is it taking laziness to a new level to sit on your arse watching someone incredibly skilled playing a computer game compared to sitting on your arse watching someone playing football, or racing a car?
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- 16,429
- United Kingdom
I'm not sure laziness was the best word for him to throw out, but I agree with him in so much as I don't really get why people do it either (at least not for entertainment purposes). If I'm sat on my arse watching people play computer games, I pretty much just have to press a button and I can remain sat on my arse, but actually partake of that activity myself, I don't even need to put my beer down. In this way, football isn't analogous at all... the difference between spectating the thing and doing the thing is considerable... it's not when it comes to gaming... so why not do the thing, instead of watching someone else do the thing?
- 84,383
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
That would imply that people watching football instead of doing football - or watching racing instead of doing racing - are lazier, because they're watching a physical activity instead of doing it (or anything else physical).
With gaming you're sat on your arse already either way. But you can watch incredibly skilled people doing the thing you do but much, much better. And then you can do it and see if it makes you better at doing it - actually watching it can teach you to be better at it yourself, so it's educational as well.
- 104
- West Yorkshire
Another variables to the equation.
If people partake in activity they otherwise would watch doesn't that reduce exposure of not only gaming but every sport(/activity/show) where you would apply this rule?
Another thing is not everyone can afford powerful PC and not everything is playable if you only have a laptop in your college dorm room (which is good maybe for watching the website about crossing hamsters.)
If people partake in activity they otherwise would watch doesn't that reduce exposure of not only gaming but every sport(/activity/show) where you would apply this rule?
Another thing is not everyone can afford powerful PC and not everything is playable if you only have a laptop in your college dorm room (which is good maybe for watching the website about crossing hamsters.)
- 16,429
- United Kingdom
I dunno, I think lazy is a harsh judgement of someone who'd rather watch a sport than do it, and the more physically active the sport the more harsh that judgement is. I don't follow ball based games, but I know I'm past being able to do ball-games (persistent ankle injury sustained spectating motorsport!), so if I decline a kick-about, I don't feel like I'm being lazy, personally.
I think the point is, the difference between spectating (real) motorsport and doing (real) motorsport is evidently massive. I can watch touring cars, but I'll never race one. The difference between spectating (virtual) motorsport and doing (virtual) motorsport is reasonably small - if you have the means to watch it, you're probably not far off the means to do it. On a personal note, the two sporting activities I did enjoying doing, would probably still bore me as a spectator experience - doing is more fun than watching, whether its bowling, rock-climbing or playing Gran Turismo, but maybe that's just me.
- 84,383
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- GTP_Famine
So do I, which is why I'm questioning the poster's concept that "this generation ... is taking laziness to a whole new level".
But still some considerable margin away from being able to do it well enough for other people to watch you doing it. I mean, I'm top 2% or so, but I suck by comparison to the tune of 4s a lap. Nobody's going to pay to watch me - or sign me to an esports team.
The whole crux of the original opinion from Coby was that race teams sponsoring esport drivers just as they would physical motorsport drivers makes "real race car drivers want to puke", but you're far more obviously looking at elite players doing it in esports than just the guys who've bought their way into race seats in physical motorsport. You can have all the gear you want in esports, but an esports team isn't going to sign you up if you're ass. Daddy can buy you race seat after race seat after race seat in motorsport, then all you have to do is drive the fastest possible car in a series nobody overtakes in after the first lap to get enough points for the next licence up.
- 582
- Toronto
This thread is a great read, especially after a weekend that saw F1 and GT3 drivers take part in an eSports event.
Any time spent in this thread is time that could be supporting your local short track.
Any time spent in this thread is time that could be supporting your local short track.
