Need suggestions for a good tuning experiment car.

A

aprilia4life

17
It would seem that there are some cars out there that are quite nicely tuned stock, so the suspension doesn't really need to be touched. This is a fat lot of good when you are trying to learn to tune, when it is already sweet and doesn't really teach you anything about suspension tweaking.

What my question to you is...

What's a good car in GT4 that has such hopeless oversteer/understeer/lack of balance or handling that it is just itching to be tuned to perfection? I need a car that noticeably changes after a good tweak, because, quite frankly, I haven't really seen that much difference in the cars I have DRASTICALLY tweaked.

Tah! :dopey:
 
aprilia4life
It would seem that there are some cars out there that are quite nicely tuned stock, so the suspension doesn't really need to be touched. This is a fat lot of good when you are trying to learn to tune, when it is already sweet and doesn't really teach you anything about suspension tweaking.

What my question to you is...

What's a good car in GT4 that has such hopeless oversteer/understeer/lack of balance or handling that it is just itching to be tuned to perfection? I need a car that noticeably changes after a good tweak, because, quite frankly, I haven't really seen that much difference in the cars I have DRASTICALLY tweaked.

Tah! :dopey:
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You might want to try one of the muscle cars, or the Ford GT.

Duck7892
 
aprilia4life
It would seem that there are some cars out there that are quite nicely tuned stock, so the suspension doesn't really need to be touched. This is a fat lot of good when you are trying to learn to tune, when it is already sweet and doesn't really teach you anything about suspension tweaking.

What my question to you is...

What's a good car in GT4 that has such hopeless oversteer/understeer/lack of balance or handling that it is just itching to be tuned to perfection? I need a car that noticeably changes after a good tweak, because, quite frankly, I haven't really seen that much difference in the cars I have DRASTICALLY tweaked.

Tah! :dopey:
Click to expand...

Okay... well you're going to open a can of worms with this question... For what kind of tuning? Various cars have various kinds of problems?

For tire wear issues and rear wheel traction issues I'd have to go with the Supra RZ, the Vipers, NSXs or pretty much any of the RX7s, or that little Lancia car, the one they make as a white, green and red rally car (can't remember it's name at the moment :dunce: ). If you get these to ride properly and quickly by tuning em, you'll likely be able to get any car under control.

For understeer issues, I'd have to say the GT 3000 VR Turbo, a 4WD Skyline from the late 80s (I know, I know all, I love em, but they're good to work on).

For oversteer problems, FWD cars... I hate em personaly. The only one I like is the Citroen Rally... so maybe somebody could help you out with these.

Later and good luck... read the many guides out there on this site and stay patient. It'll take a bit to get going until you know what you like, don't like and how to fix or acheive those things. Later :)
 
Why don't you try your hand on Duck's McLaren? There are already several good tunes there that each have their issues, perhaps you could improve on that.
 
There are several particularly challenging cars:

Opel Speedster Turbo
TVR Cerbera Speed 12
Cizeta V16T

If you can do a good setup on these 3 bad boys, you will achieve "Master Tuner" status! I have yet to see a good setup for them.

Pete
 
-GT40 comes to mind right away. It can be driven but needs a lot of work to be enjoyable and not spin out over bumps while cornering.

-The 69 Camaro isnt all that great either unless you spend a significant amount of time to tune it.

-Yellow bird also had complaints from a lot of members about the handling. Massive understeer in the corners and weak brakes.

There are a lot more but I would say the GT40 would be a good start. Take it to any of the tracks with some bumps and sharp corners.
 
CAMAROBOY69
-The 69 Camaro isnt all that great either unless you spend a significant amount of time to tune it.
QUOTE]
I'd have to say your earlier work on the 69 Camaros was pretty good. I've linked it in a few threads and got a lot of good feedback
I've tried a few setups including my on tinkering on the McLaren F1 and can't seem to find a good balance that fits my style.
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give the buick special ago that can go round a corner over 270 or mine cudnt , tried everything at least it sort of goes round corners but if you can get it stable it wud be the bomb.
 
How about the Alpine A310 1600VE '73? You win it in one of the easy special condition races you actually have to use it in the Alpine one make race because AFAIK the other Alpine can only be won in that race. It is a twitchy oversteering nightmare of a car that simply hates going in a straight line. I managed to tune out a lot of the oversteer through experimenting with the tuning basics (stiff in front makes more understeer, stiff in back makes more oversteer.) But it is a good car to practice tuning to control oversteer since you need to race it anyway.
 
slipknot10wa123
The lancia car is very fun, how is it a bad car? Doens't need upgrades and it has such controllable sliding.
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It's a cool car... Not saying it's not... In stock format, it's a very "decent" car for rally and stuff like that, but trying to get it to race properly is another thing all together... unless you want to run around drift style... Just my opinion...
 
CAMAROBOY69
-GT40 comes to mind right away. It can be driven but needs a lot of work to be enjoyable and not spin out over bumps while cornering.

-The 69 Camaro isnt all that great either unless you spend a significant amount of time to tune it.

-Yellow bird also had complaints from a lot of members about the handling. Massive understeer in the corners and weak brakes.

There are a lot more but I would say the GT40 would be a good start. Take it to any of the tracks with some bumps and sharp corners.
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While I would agree that the GT40 and 69 Camaro need good set-ups to get the most out of them (the GT40 in particular is very sensitive to the right setup for any given track).

I would have to say that I find the Yellowbird a joy to drive, once you get used to the handling quirks of high power RR cars from the '80s. A lot of the issues people have with the Yellowbird are (in my opinion) more about adapting how you drive to the car, with all the weight right out past the back axle it will understeer like a pig if you try to corner with anything other than the right speed and a constant throttle. Same with the brakes, all that weight over the back means a heavy bias towards the rear and more chance of the rears locking first and as a result an increase in instability and stopping distances.

I personnally (and it is just my opinion) would feel a bit of a fraud trying to tune these out of the car, as I feel its the way its meant to be. It takes a while to adapt to the car, but its well worth the challenge, gentle on the brakes (and always a straight line) with a firm slow in and fast out approach, always ready to catch the back end as it steps out.

The real thing was/is a beast to drive as can be seen in the Nurburgring videos of it, evil from the first corner to the last.
 
JParker
I've tried a few setups including my on tinkering on the McLaren F1 and can't seem to find a good balance that fits my style.
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Sorry to get off topic...
McLaren F1?
I think i own some sort of racing McLaren, but I didnt see a (non-racing) McLaren on the North American or Japanese Car list. Is there one?
 
no...McLaren F1.
At one time it was the fastest production car in the world (240 mph)

There is a BMW McLaren F1 race car, but i was just wondering if JParker was referring to this one...

McLarens
 
rev
no...McLaren F1.
At one time it was the fastest production car in the world (240 mph)

There is a BMW McLaren F1 race car, but i was just wondering if JParker was referring to this one...

McLarens
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Yes that is the one I was referring to. Sorry guys left of the "a". BMW M"a"cLaren F1 GTR Race Car.
 
pmgolf
There are several particularly challenging cars:

Opel Speedster Turbo
TVR Cerbera Speed 12
Cizeta V16T

If you can do a good setup on these 3 bad boys, you will achieve "Master Tuner" status! I have yet to see a good setup for them.

Pete
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It took me a while, but I got a nice set up on the tvr on your list from needing it for the supercar challenge races in professional events. I'll send it to you if you reply to this and still need it.
 
slight o/t:

JParker: you say "M'a'cLaren". Are you referring to the way it's pronounced? I've always pronounced Mac and Mc differently.
 
evo4
slight o/t:

JParker: you say "M'a'cLaren". Are you referring to the way it's pronounced? I've always pronounced Mac and Mc differently.
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I thought it was McLaren, when they were questioning which car I was talking about, I did a quick Google search for correct spelling and the BMW is a MacLaren F1 GT-R.

EDIT:
Someone referrenced this post in another thread so I did a little more investigative searching and found various sites with both spellings. But apparently the correct spelling for the BMW Racer is McLaren. In my search I noticed many GT sites are having this same mispelling confusion. I stand corrected, and humbly apologize for cluttering this thread.
 
One important guidline that I think has been overlooked in many suspension setup threads is, that you should setup the ratio between front and rear spring rates according to the weight distribution of the car. In my FR and FF cars, my front spring rate is always greater, with an even greater proportion in the front heavy muscle cars. In MR and RR cars, I almost always have the spring rate greater in the rear, as the weight bias is to the rear. When taking a corner you want your car's suspension to load up evenly. With the incorrect setup, you'll be more likely to have either the front or rear wheels giving up first, i.e. understeer or oversteer respectively. I've noticed many setups on MR Le Mans type cars where the front spring rate is far greater than the rear, then people complain about how even though its so fast, they can't control it at speed. Amazing. Unfortunately, GT4 or any other GT#, has never included a nice display of the front/rear weight distribution. This would certainly be helpful, as a correct spring ratio would be simple then to calculate. Instead its guess work and then trial and error to narrow in on the best setup. Depending on the car, there can still be good reason to add more spring rate than the bias would specify. I often add a little more up front with respect to the "ideal" to control dive and improve handling. I suppose that you could add some weight on the setup screen to improve the distribution, but I never do.

As for tough cars that are better after a good setup:

Alpine A310 1600VE '73

Someone mensioned this one here's my setup, since it is a RR car:
w/ RH tires


F R
Spring Rate: 6.0 6.5
Ride Height: 125 125
Shock Bound: 5 5
Shock Unbound: 8 8
Camber: 2.0 1.0
Stabilizer 3 3

This makes the car much more stable than stock, however it will still oversteer. I have fun with this car, because it likes to drift, and is easy to control. Especially fun on the Tokyo 246 track in the Alpine manufacture race.
 
Scaff
I would have to say that I find the Yellowbird a joy to drive, once you get used to the handling quirks of high power RR cars from the '80s. A lot of the issues people have with the Yellowbird are (in my opinion) more about adapting how you drive to the car, with all the weight right out past the back axle it will understeer like a pig if you try to corner with anything other than the right speed and a constant throttle. Same with the brakes, all that weight over the back means a heavy bias towards the rear and more chance of the rears locking first and as a result an increase in instability and stopping distances.

I personnally (and it is just my opinion) would feel a bit of a fraud trying to tune these out of the car, as I feel its the way its meant to be. It takes a while to adapt to the car, but its well worth the challenge, gentle on the brakes (and always a straight line) with a firm slow in and fast out approach, always ready to catch the back end as it steps out.

The real thing was/is a beast to drive as can be seen in the Nurburgring videos of it, evil from the first corner to the last.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Furthermore, learning to drive the RR RUF's will help you see a good many cars handle just fine when you learn how to drive them.

In my opinion, that can be said about the Ford GT '05. The best adjustments to that car are made within the driver, not the car.
 
try the trueno, the black/white one (something like siuchi something veresion)

mine at 243 hp and cant drift, cant drive, its one of the hardest cars to tune (for me at least)
 
Chaparral 2J at Sarthe Circuit at about 230 mph on the back straight. See if you can tweak it to stay pointing straight at that speed. Please try it if you got the skills.
 
SirBerra
Chaparral 2J at Sarthe Circuit at about 230 mph on the back straight. See if you can tweak it to stay pointing straight at that speed. Please try it if you got the skills.
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Of course you ran a search as instructed in //M-Spec's stickied thread.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58416
(It took 16 seconds to find my own thread, btw)
Perhaps you could tell me how it needs adjustment and I could accomodate. I mean, because, you are asking of a poster who hasn't replied to a single request since he started this thread over a month ago...and you must certainly have noticed the part where he said he was trying to learn how to tune... :rolleyes:
 
aprilia4life
It would seem that there are some cars out there that are quite nicely tuned stock, so the suspension doesn't really need to be touched. This is a fat lot of good when you are trying to learn to tune, when it is already sweet and doesn't really teach you anything about suspension tweaking.

What my question to you is...

What's a good car in GT4 that has such hopeless oversteer/understeer/lack of balance or handling that it is just itching to be tuned to perfection? I need a car that noticeably changes after a good tweak, because, quite frankly, I haven't really seen that much difference in the cars I have DRASTICALLY tweaked.

Tah! :dopey:
Click to expand...

The Chrysler 300 Hemi-C is a great project, Ive been tring to crack that sucker for a week now! I hate using LSD 'cause I feel it robs you of HP, but because of the cars' shape, standard physics behind weight distribution dont apply. Right now, I'm dropping the nose coming into turns, with the rear spring bound set as stiff as possible to keep the nose down during acceleration in an attempt to cut the wind on account of the cars' lack of aerodynamics. The only problem is the speed! This type of setup works great on a lot of classic cars, but the Hemi-C seems to resemble a cross between having the balls of a 'Cuda with the handling of a Civic. Check it out, hit me off with anything you find worth trying?!?
 
dubbleklutch
The Chrysler 300 Hemi-C is a great project, Ive been tring to crack that sucker for a week now! I hate using LSD 'cause I feel it robs you of HP, but because of the cars' shape, standard physics behind weight distribution dont apply. Right now, I'm dropping the nose coming into turns, with the rear spring bound set as stiff as possible to keep the nose down during acceleration in an attempt to cut the wind on account of the cars' lack of aerodynamics. The only problem is the speed! This type of setup works great on a lot of classic cars, but the Hemi-C seems to resemble a cross between having the balls of a 'Cuda with the handling of a Civic. Check it out, hit me off with anything you find worth trying?!?
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RK, Don't even... :banghead: :lol: :lol:

Admin... close?
 
rk
Of course you ran a search as instructed in //M-Spec's stickied thread.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58416
(It took 16 seconds to find my own thread, btw)
Perhaps you could tell me how it needs adjustment and I could accomodate. I mean, because, you are asking of a poster who hasn't replied to a single request since he started this thread over a month ago...and you must certainly have noticed the part where he said he was trying to learn how to tune...
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rk even took the time to send me a friendly message...

rk
Hi,
Say, I was hoping you could do all of us "Car Tuning and Settings" forum regulars a favor and close the thread you started and never returned to. We like a semblence of organization and prefer to see cars' tunes listed with the name in the title to aid future searches.
Thanks in advance
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Here is my reply to a PM sent to me by rk.

aprilia4life
It would seem that with 25 replys and 1,137 views of my post that people are interested in an answer to my question.

If you have a problem with a thread then take it up with a mod, I don't think they have any problems with threads that get over 1000 reads, even if they don't meet your stringent criteria in thread creation.

Don't waste my time trying to tell me how the forum should be run, it isn't yours
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I have read all the suspension tuning and car setup information I can find on this forum, and the only way I myself will learn is by tweaking a car myself, like so many others have done (who didn't have the guides). I feel this way is a lot more fun, and puts a lot more into the game for me. I cannot believe you are chopping me down for posting a question that so many people obviously want answered and obviously haven't found an answer to.

I have read and re-read //M-Spec's guide and it is a damn good read, but it is by far NOT the be-all-and-end-all, you can't tweak a car without the hands on (DS2)experience, and this is where the tweakable cars come in, you will actually NOTICE the changes in the suspension.

I have never seen a forum with such anal retentive members who chop down people for the smallest of things (if not nothing). I may be blowing this way out of proportion and for this i apologise, but I was a bit sick and tired of some of the gripes and nags on this forum and a PM sent to me by none other then a MEMBER, not even a mod, practically telling me what to do... this was the last straw.

Here you go rk, I have finally returned to this thread, I hope it was worth it.
 
Excellent, I for one look forward to some very valuable tuning advice. Do you believe there is a good way to determine ideal camber (F&R) without testing every combination of settings?
 
Personally, I didn't feel the Speed 12 to be that hard to tune. All you have to do is put a spoiler on it, set it to max downforce and fully lower the suspension and it worked fine for me.

A good car to mess with to get going good is the Mercedes Benz SL 600 (R129). Not the new one, but the used one. When you buy it it is an understeering, front heavy pig with a very spongey suspension and horrible brakes that slides all over every track you race it on. It takes alot of skill and a good setup to get it working like a proper sports car.
 

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