New Formula Women in 2019

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by BrainsBush, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. BrainsBush

    BrainsBush

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  2. adb

    adb

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    Where can I sign up for male version?

    On the serious note though, it should be done somewhere in the middle of karting ladder so they get more girls in talent pool, so they get a shot and also don’t get prioritized over boys. Also the prize should be something like being part of Red Bull JDP and getting support for next steps in karting.
    The way it is, I won’t be shocked, firstly if they don’t get anywhere (500k $ might be enough for Euro F3, won’t be enough for new F3 or F2 as it is), and secondly if they get destroyed by guys who have much more karting and open wheeler experience when they finally get somewhere. I guess their only hope is that they will find some insanely talented girl and will get her a JDP role, but other than this slim chance, I think it’s a wrong way to go about this.
    (And sexist towards guys whose parents couldn’t afford to let them go racing as kids)
    :O
     
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  3. C-ZETA

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    I thought this idea was dead in the water when some high-profile female drivers reiterated they wanted to race guys. And why not? If they can cut it against them they should damn well go against them.

    Mind you, that was before I found out about the precedent ALMS set in 1999 when they did Women's Global GT Series as a support event. But plenty has changed in the 20 years since... Really not sure how this'll go. Might do well enough but wouldn't be surprised if it went down like a lead balloon either.
     
  4. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    If it works, it works. I think it's as much about promoting the idea of women in motorsport as it is genuinely providing opportunities for them, but I don't really see that as a problem.
     
  5. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    Maybe it's me that's stupid, but these things always seem just that to me. I know what they're trying to do, but the message it tells me is:

    "Hey ladies you can do anything men can!"
    "Unfortunately ladies, we'll have to segregate you because you're not as good as men"

    Which is it? If women want to be in motorsport then that's great, help them get into it, but it should be by merit and into something we already have.
     
  6. Liquid

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    It's fine. I don't see any problem with a series like this. As Matski says, if it works it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But some women will have gotten the chance to do some races that they might not have been able to do elsewhere.

    I'm just awaiting the Übermacho gammon brigade to arrive. Can't wait.
     
  7. mustafur

    mustafur

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    It's one of the few sports Women can compete with men on a equal footing, I have no problem with this but it will only work if it brings genuine talent through.
     
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  8. eran0004

    eran0004

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    Er, no. According to the article female drivers reach a glass ceiling at Formula 3 due to difficulties of raising money. So it’s a lack of opportunity rather than lack of capability. This series aims to provide an opportunity.
     
  9. MatskiMonk

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    Given that a lot of lower level motorsport is about money, not merit, I see this more as a promotional thing. More female drivers, more female interest, more female fans, more female sponsors, more female spectators... it might not do much, but it's trying to engage with a different demographic and that's not really a bad thing.

    If one/some of them succeed and go through to be genuinely good... where's the harm?
    If a bunch more drivers are consigned to obscurity because they never won anything, or at least anything of note... where's the harm?
    If someone got an opportunity they might not otherwise have had because Daddy doesn't own an international company and want his logo on TV... where's the harm?

    Also...

    I made myself laugh..

    [​IMG]

    .. and I don't care if anyone else laughed or not.
     
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  10. baldgye

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    100% behind this.

    While motor-sport is a sport men and women can play on the same field, it isn't set up to allow such things to happen. Even if this only brings one woman into the fray of top level prototype or Formula racing, it'll have been a success.
     
  11. Carbonox

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    There is one, it's called the F1 World Championship. No gender regulations are present, but as it stands, no women have the necessary qualifications.
     
  12. TheCracker

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    Nissan and Sony did a similar thing with gamers with the GT Academy (obvious to GTPlanet members) - funding, loads of publicity/marketing, extensive driver training and that funnelled through several drivers who now compete at a high level. It's not like motorsport has ever been a sport where grass root talent is enough to get you to the top. Money has always been the deciding factor in who gets elevated to the upper echelons. Whether that money comes from family, sponsors or a promotional competition, it doesn't really matter.
     
  13. baldgye

    baldgye Premium

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    and funding.
     
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  14. Carbonox

    Carbonox

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    More like talent?
     
  15. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    This applies to men too, many of them.

    I keep seeing "solutions" for diversity is to divide everybody apart by gender and race/ethnicity and giving them special treatment. There's other ways to have equality without creating other further inequalities.
     
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  16. LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Yes they do have the funding, @Carbonox called it right.
     
  17. adb

    adb

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    I believe that nowadays, if there was a greatly talented girl in karts, she would get spotted by somebody, and teams would be all over the place to get her on, there is just too much publicity potential to miss out on it, but she would have to be a great talent, so it would be more then Sauber/Calderon PR excercise.
     
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  18. MatskiMonk

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    Diversity in opportunity and diversity in target demographic are two different things. You organically get more of the later when you create the former - and diversity in target demographic means everyone can make more money, and this business runs on money.
     
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  19. Liquid

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    I actually wouldn't mind having a separate World Championship for women in disciplines X, Y and Z; it's the same in most other sports like football, basketball and rugby and it would guarantee a field of 20 women. But I acknowledge that it depends on interest and who is going to pick up the bill.

    Most sports are "segregated" for good reasons. Tennis is probably the best example I can think of that could be a fun model to follow; separate championships (singles) complimented by a one-off cup or end of year series where a man and a woman are co-drivers (mixed doubles) in a medium-length endurance race. But I have no problem with trying to foster more top drivers for women if top-level motorsport remains a mixed category.
     
  20. eran0004

    eran0004

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    Many men find it hard to obtain funds for a motorsports career because of their gender?

    No, that doesn’t happen.
     
  21. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    I am sick of these kind of SJW's and feminists' ideas to favor women against men. There are arguably the best drivers on the world in F1. Is there any woman? No, but that's not because they aren't allowed.

    I mean it's fine by me for women to be in F1, I couldn't care less if there were more women than men, if they are that good. But why do they need women in F1 so bad that they actually do this discriminating championship? They could have done a normal amateur championship (with women in mind too) and we would see...

    [​IMG]
    (funny pic kind of linked to this too)
     
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  22. baldgye

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    While I still think this is a fair enough solution to a bad problem, Pippa Mann isn’t best pleased with the news;




    Look at the crop of drivers who have entered and left F1 since the last time a female raced in F1. Many have bought seats and a good chunk of those don’t belong in an F1 car based on talent... funding is a huge issue in F1 (look at Ocon!).
    So to say that only talent has prevented another female driver entering the sport since the 1970’s is ridiculous.
     
  23. LMSCorvetteGT2

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    I don't blame her for being mad, though I find it a bit loaded why she is.


    Look at Ocon what? Ocon is not being given a seat for reasons I've already specified before on the appropriate thread but I guess I must do so again. Funding isn't the issue it is an issue of teams who want to give a seat to a driver for a small cash surplus only to see said driver leave after a season or two and win races with the team they were loaned from. I don't blame smaller teams opting for a driver who brings money and will stay with them for years rather than months.

    Funding has always been a cornerstone of racing, and it is much easier to fund someone that has some talent than no talent and just PR that brings in a narrow demographic of new fans. So yes talent and culture have prevented female drivers but your history is rusty since the last female drivers weren't from the 1970s.



    With a limited number of seats, the issue for me seems to be that people are wanting to fill one or more of those seats with a woman, simply to have a woman driver. Which is interesting because you complain about Ocon not being in a seat but make the argument for women of current that in general should be there. So who exactly should be there?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  24. baldgye

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    If Ocon was backed by a billionaire(:sly:), he'd have a drive for next year regardless of whether he would stay with said team for a year or three. On ability and talent he's one of the hottest drivers on the market, he has the possibility to help Williams (for example) score a few points, which would be HUGE. That was why I mentioned his name in regards to funding.

    Except, this isn't really true. The drivers with the big money do so through personal means, either family, friends etc... Talent doesn't begot funding (unless you are one in a generation).
    By being in F1 I meant, compete in a race (sorry I should have been more clear). Otherwise I could probably have mentioned the numerous test drivers?
    I guess it's worth noting that after Amati failed to qualify for her final weekend Damon Hill took over duties and also failed many times to qualify in the same car. One would assume perhaps she could have done better given a more competitive car (in her last qualifying session she was 11 seconds off pole, but I've no idea what that means relative to her team mate at the time etc)?
    It's also interesting to read (at least one of) the reason(s) for her being sacked;
    via


    Except, this isn't true is it? There are several women who could drive in F1, even for a single race... but they haven't. Instead they are given simulator roles and or test driver status, which amounts to basically nothing. Suzi Wolf, could have driven a race if they simply wanted a women to enter a race, but she just did a practice session and that was is.
    (I don't get the point about Ocon?)



    Like I said before, I think it's sad that this series has to exist, just like it's sad to hear of the racist abuse Lewis had to deal with in his karting career when he was starting out. But if this works and can bring more women and girls into the sport, it'll only make it better for everyone.[/quote][/quote]
     
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  25. eran0004

    eran0004

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    Giving up privileges may feel like you’re being oppressed, but really you’re not.

    Where do they say that women are not allowed in F1? They identify the issue as being that female drivers’ learning curve tend to come to a sudden stop upon reaching Formula 3, and they say that the issue is a lack of funding. So it’s not a problem with F1 per se, but rather the path towards getting there.

    Because there hasn’t been a woman in F1 since 1992 and because they have identified a glass ceiling that they want to shatter.

    How would that address the issue? And wouldn’t that be just as unfair towards professional drivers?
     
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  26. Carbonox

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    The fact Hill actually made it into some races, while Amati was consistently several seconds slower than the next slowest driver, begs to differ.
     
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  27. baldgye

    baldgye Premium

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    By 'some races', you literally only mean 2?

    via
     
  28. LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Technically he is backed by billion dollar company, said company seems poised on moving up him to their works team in the near future. If the team doesn't want to invest as much as Perez's backers do then that's too bad for Ocon. Perez has a wealth of experience and gets the same range of results as Ocon. He has funding so it's a moot argument, the issue is how long is the funding going to happen? So no it doesn't matter if the backer is a multi hundred millionaire or a billionaire. Hence the anguish of Toto claiming those in the paddock don't have the balls to take Ocon on the deal Mercedes wants.

    How is it not true? Just because that is one of the means for racing doesn't mean it's not a cornerstone, it also neglects the very many drivers who haven't had family backing and currently race.

    You want to cherry pick then? Because she was a signed race driver, I wouldn't have brought her up if I didn't know what you meant, which that is what you meant. If I wanted to bring up a current contracted driver with a team Caulderon would have been the last female F1 driver in that regard. She didn't race because she failed to qualify for said race, but nonetheless is a racing driver.


    Yes one could assume that if they wanted to without doing a more in depth look into her career. For one she wasn't the first choice to take that seat a more qualified driver was but the FIA didn't recognize their nations F3000 series as a suitable feeder for a super license. Two she had supposed backing despite her very lackluster F3000 results. Finally while Hill did fail to qualify for races and yes the car was awful, the difference between them was the margin of time. It'd be fine if she failed within the same +/- as her team mates but she was massively off the mark seemingly due to lack of experience and skill. She raced for several season in F3000 without any success and was purely taken on because of supposed backing. Seems quite familiar.

    Again not really, just proves that you need money to go racing, especially in teams that need the money to have you race for them.


    How is it not true? So you're suggesting that Susie Wolff should have been picked over the drivers that actually raced? Because that's my point, you're asking for a woman to be in the seat to fill some kind of unwritten quota. They're given test and development roles because they have the ability to understand driving a car fast but don't have the talents of the main drivers to get the max results. Some teams do it to help younger drivers gain experience for a potential future in F1. Thought many times it has been shown those drivers aren't exactly fast.

    The point with Ocon is you can not have it both ways, you can't make the claim that a talented driver is without a seat and thus talent isn't the issue, it's backing. Though he has backing, then claim no one is backing women drivers, yet women drivers like Jorda, Caulderon, Wolff, Silvestro, Patrick and on and on have been backed but didn't have enough skill or any.

    Yeah I too think it's sad that someone thought the best course of action was the split off a series for woman, rather than take that money put it into some scholarship or funding program to develop women drivers.

    As for bringing women to the sport, what makes you think it will bring more women than prior? If this a free ticket for women to be able to race without worry of financial burden to them or their families, sure I could see more women drivers. If not, then I doubt it. I think the issue of why we don't see as many women drivers is because of cultural reasons. I mean it may seem crazy to some, but perhaps women aren't flooding in to race cars because they don't want to race cars. By and large racing is a niche on it's own to begin with, and trying to explain racing to a person (no matter the gender) who never grew up around it tends to be hard to do.

    Perhaps the FIA should ask Monster Jam how they get so many women to hop into Monster Trucks and smash cars at State Fairgrounds/Colosseums.
     
  29. Adam Barber

    Adam Barber

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    Surely the money spent on this series would be better spent on investing in women racing drivers in existing series as cash is usually the limiting factor.
     
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  30. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    So now women aren't in F1 or being funded simply because they're women? A man doesn't get funding = tough luck privileged guy? A woman doesn't get funding = it's because you're female?

    If there was a Hamilton/Vettel esque lady in F1 right now fighting for the championship, can anyone begin to imagine how much money she would bring in? We'd never see the end of the adverts. So I ask, which current or recent female drivers would anyone say could have been fighting for championship points in F1?

    I just find it tiring to see around that gender is not really the issue with something but people will always try and make it so. If we want equality, we should seek equal ways of obtaining it. How does the stance "You have a Vagina, you get this, and you have a penis, so you're already privileged" ever help? If funding is the issue for people of both sex, then fix the funding issue for both sexes.
    We also have to consider things even if they're biological. If men just so happen to be a bit better at motorsport like they are in other sports, then unfortunately that's the way it is, and we shouldn't try to shoehorn women into it unless they can genuinely compete. I also don't get the idea that if we shove women in to something, they'll garner a much larger female audience and interests. Wrestling, Soccer et al have both sexes but the majority of interest, viewers and participants remains to be male.