2019 W Series

[baldgye]

You seem to be contradicting yourself then.

You said above,



And now you say they can't?

No. You are conflating physical ability with actual opportunities.

 

[zzz_pt]

No. You are conflating physical ability with actual opportunities.

I never addressed or asked about opportunities. I asked if they could achieve a world championship based on physical differences (men and women).

 

[adb]

We'd be wrong - but that would still beg the question of why not.

Well, Jamie Chadwick won an F3 race earlier this year, and won British GT in 2015. Flick Haigh won British GT in 2018. Susie Wolff and Maria de Villota both tested F1 cars in 2014 and 2012 respectively, Wolff also drove DTM, as did Rahel Frey. Before DTM, Frey drove the LMGT1 Ford GT in the 2010 Le Mans 24 Hours along with Natacha Gachnang and Cyndie Allemann - and in DTM she replaced Katherine Legge who went to Indycar, where you'll currently find Pippa Mann. Simona de Silvestro also drove Indycar (and Formula E, like Legge, and both have driven F1s in test sessions), but now drives what used to be V8 Supercars in Australia...

... I mean, they're out there.

There are now and has been top female karters in the past - Susanna Raganelli, Lotta Helberg, Max Verstappen's mother Sophie Kumpen and more recently, Laura Tillet, Abigail Gerry or Tiffany Hamilton. They just never really got the chance or are still awaiting the chance to take things further.

I'd imagine they aren't racing due to the lack of visibility of women drivers. This event is an effort to change that perception, even if it's only an incrememntal change. When female athletic teams do well in the Olympics, immediately enrollments into those sports increase in those respective countries. Visibility leads to idealization, which leads to interest, action, and follow through.

The bigger goal though is to grow and nurture an interest in motorsports among more women in general. Any industry that doesn't work to grow it's audience is merely dead in the water. This event serves those two goals.

And what if none of them are F1 material, just like hundreds or even thousands of male racing drivers who didn't make F1? There is a reason why none of them had a real shot at F1, it's not because they're female or lack funding.

 

[baldgye]

I never addressed or asked about opportunities. I asked if they could achieve a world championship based on physical differences (men and women).

No, what you did was make baselsss assumptions and make inane comparisons.
Then when presented with evidence to the contrary, dismissed it or tried to reframe the conversation.

 

[zzz_pt]

No, what you did was make baselsss assumptions and make inane comparisons

Such as?

Then when presented with evidence to the contrary, dismissed it or tried to reframe the conversation.

Citation needed.

 

[baldgye]

Such as?

Oh, well I guess not reading any of the replies to your posts would account for your replies 👍

I’m done wasting time

 

[zzz_pt]

Oh, well I guess not reading any of the replies to your posts would account for your replies 👍

I've quoted all the replies / posts I've responded to.

Also, this was the basis for my position:

I'm basing my opinion on the fact that, on the limit of athleticism, and on average, men over-perform compared to women. Being under G-forces, under water, under higher or lower temperatures, etc.

I didn't draw my hypothesis from that study but, as I've said, from a basic knowledge of the biological differences between men and women; from the fact that every other highly physically demanding sport separates male and female athletes; and from the fact that I haven't seen a top F1 female driver yet.

If you want to dispute that, be my guest. Saying my opinion is baseless if incorrect. Maybe you're the one not reading my posts.

I’m done wasting time

Ok, I guess. Cheers

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Then the question becomes "Why are women not interested?".

Whew, been a long day at work and this thread has moved on quite a bit, so I'm not going to backtrack much.

My answer (guess) would be that our core interests come from very early on in our upbringing and perceived societal norms. Basically, instead of giving a female toddler a doll house, mini pram and pretend kitchen set, you'd need to give them toy cars to play "brum brums" with and I don't think anything else is really going to fix it.

 

[Famine]

@twitcher The thread title says "women" not "woman", so no it doesn't say "Formula Woman" in the title, and your post was the very first time that phrase appeared in this thread, like I said. Changing my quote to words other than those that I typed is unacceptable behaviour as it is, without changing it to say something inaccurate. But you've been told this before.

You've also been told three times now: thread titles for threads created by users before the relevant article are not routinely altered unless there is an AUP issue with the title, as it's unnecessary. Why you're acting like I'm persecuting you for simply letting you know in conversation that W Series isn't Formula Woman escapes me, but we're done on this topic.

And what if none of them are F1 material, just like hundreds or even thousands of male racing drivers who didn't make F1? There is a reason why none of them had a real shot at F1, it's not because they're female or lack funding.

Is it not?

My answer (guess) would be that our core interests come from very early on in our upbringing and perceived societal norms. Basically, instead of giving a female toddler a doll house, mini pram and pretend kitchen set, you'd need to give them toy cars to play "brum brums" with and I don't think anything else is really going to fix it.

So what you'd need is some way of changing parents' minds. Perhaps prominent female racing drivers would make parents think "my daughter stands a chance of being a racing driver" rather than "girls don't become racing drivers". Perhaps there should be some system in place that brings coverage to female racing drivers and secures the funding they need to progress higher in the motorsports ladder than before, so that they become household names?

 

[adb]

Is it not?

The drivers you mentioned got a shot in fairly high profile series, so I would say at least that funding is not a #1 obstacle on their way to F1. Funding issue also stands true for guys, it's a whole different problem.

Perhaps prominent female racing drivers would make parents think "my daughter stands a chance of being a racing driver" rather than "girls don't become racing drivers"

How do you achieve that? Force an unproven female racing driver into F1, so she is way off the pace and makes sure that other women won't even think about it for another 20 years? Chicken or the egg?

 

[Northstar]

How do you achieve that? Force an unproven female racing driver into F1, so she is way off the pace and makes sure that other women won't even think about it for another 20 years? Chicken or the egg?

No, you make a feeder series intended on putting young female drivers in the spotlight in the hopes teams in higher tiers notice their speed and give them a ride. And it just so happens we're in a thread discussing a series doing just that. 💡

 

[Famine]

The drivers you mentioned got a shot in fairly high profile series, so I would say at least that funding is not a #1 obstacle on their way to F1. Funding issue also stands true for guys, it's a whole different problem.

You're looking at orders of magnitude. Chadwick runs in F3, which costs around £500k a year. That's a lot of funding to secure, but to drive in GP2 you'll need double that. A pay driver in F1? Add a nought to the end...

Hey, £500k, £10m, what's the difference? It's the difference between doable and impossible without a serious sugar daddy. Lance Stroll's dad is a fashion magnate and owns a race track, an F1 team and reportedly spends £50m a year on his son's race seat. Pastor Maldonado had the national bank of Venezuela behind him, to the tune of £30m a year. Sergio Perez is funded by Mexico, Sergiy Sirotkin by Russia (well, SMP bank).

To get one season in F1, someone like Jamie Chadwick would have to bring in 20 seasons worth of funding from her sponsors, which are a hotel at Gatwick airport, a UK small business lender, a sunglasses manufacturer and a building materials company - and GoPro and Pirelli. We're not talking anywhere near the same level of funding, and it's not like she's rubbish.

Funding is a problem for many drivers, across the gender spectrum, but women do seem to be capped at that F3 level of funding.

How do you achieve that? Force an unproven female racing driver into F1, so she is way off the pace and makes sure that other women won't even think about it for another 20 years? Chicken or the egg?

I reckon some kind of high profile series for women with backing from F1 figures, that's free to enter, has selection criteria to ensure ability, uses high profile circuits with fast wings and slicks cars, with live streamed races and a whole wedge of cash for the winner.

Hmm...

No, you make a feeder series intended on putting young female drivers in the spotlight in the hopes teams in higher tiers notice their speed and give them a ride. And it just so happens we're in a thread discussing a series doing just that. 💡

I didn't think I was being too vague

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

And what if none of them are F1 material, just like hundreds or even thousands of male racing drivers who didn't make F1? There is a reason why none of them had a real shot at F1, it's not because they're female or lack funding.

It's irrelevant.

The point is to cultivate and expand their viewership by giving female drivers more visibility. It just makes practical business sense. If a good F1 driver is found through the process, then that would be great too.

 

[eran0004]

i think I did read your reply.

I take it as you’re saying that WS will increase the number of women at the F3 level, thus increasing the likelyhood of a woman making it to F1.

No. I’m saying that it will provide an opportunity for development, and as such it will improve the chances of female drivers making it to F1.

That it will increase the ratio of women in F3 is a possible outcome, not a certainty.

Because it was the first that came to mind and one that is not so present (not as intensely) in any other sport or motorsport afaik. Maybe Air Bull Air Races but those are more of a fun thing than a serious sport.

That sounds an awful lot like “no reason at all”.

I didn't say women can't cope with G forces.

Which means that you no longer have any reason why women wouldn’t be able to compete in F1.

So why wouldn’t they?

I pointed out the 100 hurdles because you seem to be arguing that, because regular women and men have the same tolerance to G forces in a passive state, somehow, that means the fastest and best women and men driving an F1 car on the limit wouldn't also experience any difference. Women can do everything men can. But if you compare the top athletes of both genders, you'll find differences in every sport.

Except the study doesn’t say: “men and women can tolerate G forces.” It says that there is no significant difference in G force tolerance. For your case to be true you need a study showing that there is no significant difference between men and women when it comes to 110 m hurdles, not merely that that they can both jump and run.

Of course I'm starting from the idea that driving an F1 car is akin to a top sport in terms of physical work.

There is a lot of physical work, but you’re assuming that it has the same kind of physical work as in sports like running. It doesn’t. In running you need muscle strength to move your body as fast as possible.

In F1 the car provides those muscles and instead it’s about coping with the G forces. So it’s wrong to extrapolate from marathons or 110 m hurdles and say that it’s equivalent, because it’s not.

I don't know for a fact it is a factor. I suspect it is based on everything we know about how male and female bodies endure and perform physical demanding activities.

Name one thing we know about how men and women endure physical activities differently.

Other factors? Spacial awareness, maybe? On average, men have better spatial awareness than women, which comes in handy when driving an F1 car among other F1 cars at 250km/h average for 90m.

Men are on average better at stuff like mental rotation tests, which may come in handy when you want to figure out how your car is oriented when you flipped it and landed upside down. It has no relevance to driving in a pack of cars, unless you want to make the case that it would somehow allow them to see what’s going on around them.

Women on the other hand are on average better at recognising landmarks, which might give them an advantage when it comes to recognising braking points and apexes.

Some studies also suggest men have faster reaction times than women and can maintain those reaction times for a longer period of years until they, obviously, start to increase.

Other studies suggest that such differences are due to utilising the same force threshold, which gives individuals with stronger muscles an advantage.

I don't know. I'm basing my opinion on the fact that, on the limit of athleticism, and on average, men over-perform compared to women. Being under G-forces, under water, under higher or lower temperatures, etc.

This is a sport where the car does almost all of the athleticism though.

On my phone I could only see the first 3 pages.

Ok. Perhaps it didn’t load properly then. On my phone I can see all of them.

I didn't say it's continuous... But it's something that happens several per lap, for dozens of laps.

You did say continuously, but it wasn’t what you meant.

I didn't draw my hypothesis from that study but, as I've said, from a basic knowledge of the biological differences between men and women; from the fact that every other highly physically demanding sport separates male and female athletes; and from the fact that I haven't seen a top F1 female driver yet.

Which makes it a false equivalency: “I have not seen a top F1 female driver.” ⇔ “women can’t compete in F1 because of biological differences between sexes.”

When in fact there should be an implication:
“Women can’t compete in F1 because of biological differences between sexes” ⇒ “I have not seen a top F1 female driver.”

Which means that if the first statement is true, then the second statement is true, but not necessarily vice versa. In your reasoning you draw the implication arrow in the reverse direction and that is not correct.

We're both guessing.

No. You are claiming that women are not able to compete in F1 due to biological differences between sexes and I’m saying “prove it”.

They're all highly physically demanding.

But in very different ways and with very different importance to the end result.

Piloting a machine is secondary imo.

Really? F1 is not primarily about driving cars? Then what is it primarily about?

Driving an F1 car is not the same as playing on a controller nor it's a brain inside a helmet doing all the work, without a body attached.

So now women do not have a body and they’re not able to turn a steering wheel or control pedals?

 

[adb]

You're looking at orders of magnitude. Chadwick runs in F3, which costs around £500k a year. That's a lot of funding to secure, but to drive in GP2 you'll need double that. A pay driver in F1? Add a nought to the end...

So you’re suggesting Chadwick has F1 potential, I’m not so sure, F3 is the point of career where people usually get picked up by JDP’s and if you’re really talented they will fight over you.

No, you make a feeder series intended on putting young female drivers in the spotlight in the hopes teams in higher tiers notice their speed and give them a ride. And it just so happens we're in a thread discussing a series doing just that. 💡

Expect this series won’t help teams notice them, it will be series with a bunch of unknown quality female racing drivers driving in circles doing nothing to prove their worth against the best of this world. F1 teams (of rather their JDP’s) don’t do stuff based on feeling, if they see you’re really fast and talented they will be interested, no matter your background or gender, but this series doesn’t give them any reference point, even worse, if there is some girl that was a backmarker/midfielder from F3/F4 and she dominates this series, this series will prove useless.

I will hold back the ultimate judgement on this series until it’s known how the selection process is done, although I don’t expect miracles

I reckon some kind of high profile series for women with backing from F1 figures, that's free to enter, has selection criteria to ensure ability, uses high profile circuits with fast wings and slicks cars, with live streamed races and a whole wedge of cash for the winner.

But look, read what you have written, as well as DC said, girls reach and top out at F3/GP3, so you give them an F3 car to race around and then you give winner F3 budget, how does it make sense?
It’s all nice that they’re doing it for free, but where do you get that talent from?
And I won’t even start with a fact that it’s rather unfair to do a female-only series that is free.

It's irrelevant.

The point is to cultivate and expand their viewership by giving female drivers more visibility. It just makes practical business sense. If a good F1 driver is found through the process, then that would be great too.

The fact that they’re not F1 material is irrelevant? You want to stick a bad driver in F1 car so little girls want to look up to them. What a shame it will be an embarrassment that will keep girls out of sport for furthe X years.

I just want to see their selection process, are they looking for experience? Are they going to do some tests to judge their talents? Beauty contest? Rental car race? I just don’t see it.

They have a budget, they just need to pray that one day there will be a 7yo girl who turns up at karting track with her not so rich father or mother and she will be quick, so they can throw that money on her career. IMO it’s their only hope.

Because if they do this series with bunch of girls who couldn’t set world on fire in F4/F3 series then they already lost.

 

[TheCracker]

Expect this series won’t help teams notice them, it will be series with a bunch of unknown quality female racing drivers driving in circles doing nothing to prove their worth against the best of this world. F1 teams (of rather their JDP’s) don’t do stuff based on feeling, if they see you’re really fast and talented they will be interested, no matter your background or gender, but this series doesn’t give them any reference point, even worse, if there is some girl that was a backmarker/midfielder from F3/F4 and she dominates this series, this series will prove useless.

You're assuming that F3 is a level playing field, when it isn't. If you don't race for a top F3 team, just like with F1 and GP2, you probably aren't going to be collecting much silverware. You are unlikely to attract F1 teams with good results unless you come with a fat cheque in your back pocket or are already part of something like the Red Bull programme - which is essentially the same thing. Team owners don't give a damn about talent unless that talent has money.

Formula Woman isn't about giving female drivers a chance to prove themselves to F1 team owners, it's about giving them a platform to attract the sponsorship they'll need to break through that F3 glass ceiling that gets mentioned.

 

[adb]

You're assuming that F3 is a level playing field, when it isn't. If you don't race for a top F3 team, just like with F1 and GP2, you probably aren't going to be collecting much silverware. You are unlikely to attract F1 teams with good results unless you come with a fat cheque in your back pocket or are already part of something like the Red Bull programme - which is essentially the same thing. Team owners don't give a damn about talent unless that talent has money.

F3 isn't level playing field, true, but the gaps between teams are not enormous. As example, Verstappen as a rookie in first season of open wheeler racing for Van Amersfoort Racing has come 3rd in championship with 10 wins, while this year Sophia Flörsch (yes I know she hasn't competed in first 3 rounds) has scored 1 point and is 22nd in championship, same team as Verstappen. Yes I know Max is a freak talent, but still it shows that you can do great things in F3 with lesser team.

Another example is last year, Lando has won this championship as a rookie for Carlin, while this year their top driver is in 10th.

Better team in F3/GP3/F2 might be worth few tenths of a second, but it's nothing a great talent can't overcome. If people want to roll out a red carpet for any girl that can keep her car on the black stuff, sure, go ahead, but they will be doing more harm to girls in motorsport than anything.

 

[Famine]

So you’re suggesting Chadwick has F1 potential

Nothing even close to that appears anywhere in my post.

But look, read what you have written, as well as DC said, girls reach and top out at F3/GP3, so you give them an F3 car to race around and then you give winner F3 budget, how does it make sense?

Let's look at the math:

Female F3 driver who can already attract £500k annual sponsorship + female driver who wins £500k in W Series = £1m

That's before the notion that the increased exposure brings in more sponsors. And £1m is a GP2 seat. Glass ceiling broken.

I just want to see their selection process, are they looking for experience? Are they going to do some tests to judge their talents? Beauty contest? Rental car race? I just don’t see it.

Classy. In any case, our article explains the selection process: track driving tests, simulator tests, fitness tests, engineering tests. I'd assume a PR test too - if W Series is about marketability, they'd need drivers who don't suck at PR and in interviews. The judging panel includes an F1/GT team boss, an F1 journalist and an F1 driver/broadcaster.

Hey, doesn't that sounds just like GT Academy, only with engineering tests added?

 

[adb]

Female F3 driver who can already attract £500k annual sponsorship + female driver who wins £500k in W Series = £1m

That's before the notion that the increased exposure brings in more sponsors. And £1m is a GP2 seat. Glass ceiling broken.

You win

Classy. In any case, our article explains the selection process: track driving tests, simulator tests, fitness tests, engineering tests.

They gonna do it for all (let’s say couple hundred) entries? Impressive

 

[Famine]

They gonna do it for all (let’s say couple hundred) entries? Impressive

GT Academy did it just fine. I'll hazard a guess that there's some preselection criteria - age, licence type, residency status - but when a games company can hire the right people to whittle down 600+ qualifying candidates to a final 30 drivers, it shouldn't be a huge obstacle for W Series.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The fact that they’re not F1 material is irrelevant? You want to stick a bad driver in F1 car so little girls want to look up to them. What a shame it will be an embarrassment that will keep girls out of sport for furthe X years.

I just want to see their selection process, are they looking for experience? Are they going to do some tests to judge their talents? Beauty contest? Rental car race? I just don’t see it.

They have a budget, they just need to pray that one day there will be a 7yo girl who turns up at karting track with her not so rich father or mother and she will be quick, so they can throw that money on her career. IMO it’s their only hope.

Because if they do this series with bunch of girls who couldn’t set world on fire in F4/F3 series then they already lost.

There's no need to put words in my mouth while making strawman arguments for me and counter arguing your own rhetorical questions. I'm sorry but I don't debate with disingenuous participants.

I will however reiterate my point as my point is simple. It's a solid marketing move that provides opportunities for the small demographic of women drivers. All of the other issues you have about this, are simply your issues. It's clear that you have many when you insist on calling women "girls" while joking about beauty contests. I don't know what you expect the industry to do when they need to be constantly expanding to newer demographics. I'm sorry it triggers you so badly.

 

[Dotini]

What if, just if, we assume girls don't want to race? I'm pretty sure rich people also have daughters, so the funds would be a non-issue, why aren't they racing? By now there should be a talented, well-funded girl, driving a good kart for a good team, surprising people on track, right?

There are now and has been top female karters in the past - Susanna Raganelli, Lotta Helberg, Max Verstappen's mother Sophie Kumpen and more recently, Laura Tillet, Abigail Gerry or Tiffany Hamilton. They just never really got the chance or are still awaiting the chance to take things further.

I raced karts, both on sprint tracks and regular road courses, from 1988 to 2010 all over the western US and Canada, but mainly IKF region 6. There were very few female drivers, but those that did race often ran quite well. But none lasted too long, as they tended to drift off into other activities, sometimes but not always motherhood. In other words, they had the talent and ability to race, but they never became zealous and hard-core about it enough to forsake all other activities to the cause. Graham Hill was once asked what it took to be a race car driver, and he answered, "Dedication, determination and concentration." In my experience, female racers could well muster the concentration and determination necessary to win at a boy's motorsport, but not too often the single-minded dedication to persist at it, despite available funding. From this I conclude that sometimes there are more important things to do than kart racing - for both men and women. But sometimes men get hooked on it to an almost unhealthy degree.

 

[FoRiZon]

Formula races may allow women to race alongside men.

Real problem is the politics inside each teams. Considering the quota by itself is already limited and the exorbitant cost to even join I wouldn't be surprised. Those private teams won't be taking further risks.

Best case scenario would be turning motorsport into a separated gender sport like most of sports like football. This would be the start.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Best case scenario would be turning motorsport into a separated gender sport like most of sports like football. This would be the start.

Further segregation of sexes in motorsport isn't the best case scenario. Successful increase in female participation in the sport in general, an increase of female viewers and spectators, and an increase pool of willing sponsors is the best case scenario.

 

[adb]

GT Academy did it just fine. I'll hazard a guess that there's some preselection criteria - age, licence type, residency status - but when a games company can hire the right people to whittle down 600+ qualifying candidates to a final 30 drivers, it shouldn't be a huge obstacle for W Series.

I’m not sure how GT Academy goes, but isn’t it based on times you set from your home, and then only fastest guys take part in further stages?
I’m not sure how they will enter this. Send some sort of CV? I have no idea honestly

There's no need to put words in my mouth while making strawman arguments for me and counter arguing your own rhetorical questions. I'm sorry but I don't debate with disingenuous participants.

You literally quoted my post where I said “what if none of them are F1 material” and that they don’t make F1 due to talent and not gender or funds, you say it’s irrelevant. What exactly am I putting in your mouth

All of the other issues you have about this, are simply your issues. It's clear that you have many when you insist on calling women "girls"

I insist on calling them girls because I’m still thinking more of “female children” who would be the age to go karting rather than adult women who have long time ago missed the window to achieve anything big in motorsports nowadays.

Oh and thank you, it’s very nice that you care about my issues, appreciate that.

joking about beauty contests

Exactly I’m joking, thank you for pointing it out

 

[TomBrady]

The feminnazis are smoking some stuff if they think women are on par with men in actual auto racing especially F1. Give the same specs and everything my money is on the men 9/10times to trash the female. They must have watched that cute AUDI commercial.

I don't know how you can say that. Do we have any studies to back this up or are you just guessing due to the lack of success they've had???

I'm just not sure racing is one of those things that women are biologically incapable of matching the best men. Racing isn't sprinting, it's not really based on your athletic prowess though you do need to be in great shape. I think it's more mental and skill based so I don't see why women can't be just as capable in racing. It would take drastic changes though. Women in racing would have to be much more common so there would be a reasonable talent pool to select from. For now, it's really in its infancy at its best. They will get much better over time if more women start racing

Lets not forget Michele Mouton. She was very close to winning the championship in Group B which was at the time the pinnacle of rally racing and one of the toughest motorsports ever.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

You literally quoted my post where I said “what if none of them are F1 material” and that they don’t make F1 due to talent and not gender or funds, you say it’s irrelevant. What exactly am I putting in your mouth

You literally wrote a rhetorical question and then retorted your own rhetorical question as if it was my statement. That's not how you rationally discuss an issue. I don't have time to teach people how to argue though, so this exchange is a waste of time.

Further segregation of sexes in motorsport isn't the best case scenario. Successful increase in female participation in the sport in general, an increase of female viewers and spectators, and an increase pool of willing sponsors is the best case scenario.

This guy gets it.

 

[Famine]

I’m not sure how GT Academy goes, but isn’t it based on times you set from your home, and then only fastest guys take part in further stages?

I mean, we've only been covering GT Academy on GTPlanet for ten years, but... you can consider the initial "times in a game" section as the application stage.

After that the drivers take part in challenges that determine their on-track pace, simulator pace, physical fitness and PR skills to whittle them down to the finalists and then more of the same (after instruction) before a final on-track race-off to select a winner.

W Series' interview process sounds a lot like that, only with an engineering test:

In any case, our article explains the selection process: track driving tests, simulator tests, fitness tests, engineering tests. I'd assume a PR test too - if W Series is about marketability, they'd need drivers who don't suck at PR and in interviews. The judging panel includes an F1/GT team boss, an F1 journalist and an F1 driver/broadcaster.

Hey, doesn't that sounds just like GT Academy, only with engineering tests added?

I’m not sure how they will enter this. Send some sort of CV?

I'm pretty certain that will be the first step, yes. They'll almost certainly then filter out applicants who are too old or young, won't be eligible for the appropriate race licence to take part (international B, I'd reckon) and won't be able to travel to Europe due to residency/travel issues or sanctions, along with whatever other criteria they require before sending successful applicants to their version of GT Academy Race Camp.

 

[Furinkazen]

Formula races may allow women to race alongside men.

Wrong, they do allow women to race alongside men anyway.

Also wrong, any motorsport allows women to race alongside men.

Real problem is the politics inside each teams. Considering the quota by itself is already limited and the exorbitant cost to even join I wouldn't be surprised. Those private teams won't be taking further risks.

Wrong. If the next super quick driver is female, think of the positive PR and potential for extra media spotlight and sponsors. Or she'll wind up a pay driver, like many other drivers.

Best case scenario would be turning motorsport into a separated gender sport like most of sports like football. This would be the start.

Hasn't been an issue since the inception of motorsports, not sure why it is now.

 

[adb]

You literally wrote a rhetorical question and then retorted your own rhetorical question as if it was my statement. That's not how you rationally discuss an issue. I don't have time to teach people how to argue though, so this exchange is a waste of time.

Look, English is not my native language so maybe I haven’t got my head around art of arguing yet.
But for me, you quoted my rhetorical question regarding drivers’ talent/quality, and you said it’s irrelevant. Then you said that the point is to expand female viewership and to get more exposure on female drivers.

If you think that driver’s quality isn’t important and the only point of this is PR and marketing, than I can safely assume you would be ok with pushing a woman through the feeder series just to get her an F1 seat.

And yes, now you will say I’m putting words in your mouth but that’s kind of what you said, especially with this “irrelevant” part, unless you can’t figure out how to quote people and you didn’t mean that as a response to everything you quoted there

After that the drivers take part in challenges that determine their on-track pace, simulator pace, physical fitness and PR skills to whittle them down to the finalists and then more of the same (after instruction) before a final on-track race-off to select a winner.

I’m really sorry that I don’t know much about Academy, but are there still 600+ people there at that stage you mentioned? Serious question, I’m sorry

I'm pretty certain that will be the first step, yes. They'll almost certainly then filter out applicants who are too old or young, won't be eligible for the appropriate race licence to take part (international B, I'd reckon) and won't be able to travel to Europe due to residency/travel issues or sanctions, along with whatever other criteria they require before sending successful applicants to their version of GT Academy Race Camp.

It makes sense, I guess we will see if this series results in any serious talent being given a chance, would be great.

FWIW, I’m not against women in motorsports, but when we’re talking about creating opportunities for people who can’t get funds, why do it for girls only. That’s not the way to do it. If there is a girl (ok, woman) who got her F4/F3/F2 seat despite of being slower than some guy, just because she’s a girl, it’s wrong, nobody can argue with that.

I would be much more happy if they did this kind of series for boys(men) and girls(women). 50/50 - ten men, ten women, same selection process, same criteria. Then we will see.

I’m all for giving opportunity, but not based on gender/race/nationality, just pure talent.