Toyota Supra (A90)
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Dotini
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Yeah, The Camry is so much more suited to NASCAR.
The actual supra is two and a half feet shorter than the Nascar version with a foot+ shorter wheelbase. The Camry is much closer in size and arguably in concept.
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Yeah, ok... the 400Z ain't waitin' on a 4sec Supra either, Mike.
So,... 30yrs ago, the Germans (BMW and Mercedes) learned a thing or two about quality tech in manufacturing. And now the Japanese (Toyota and Nissan) need some other world track tech at the Nurburgring? I think not. If anything, the US auto makers could use some of both of their tech knowledge... in regards to street comp and endurance racing.
Dotini
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CodeRedR51
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... sadly never raced as a factory effort
But did get to be used as the Canvas for Sandro Chia's Art Car 
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More renders! This time it's Vossen's turn.
Edit: Found a Top Secret-esque version.
Edit: Found a Top Secret-esque version.
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Neither are very close to the "concept" that NASCAR provides, and that's bee the issue with the cars since the late 80s. The SS was probably the closest in a couple of decades.
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Keef
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You just gave me an idea. How about all you photoshop wizards take this photo right here and photoshop decent faces onto the car to see how much better it could look?
Also, what BMW is that? I don't recognize it all.
They're gonna need all the marketing they can get. A fully-loaded 370 Nismo is about 10k cheaper than this. Not only that but it's tried and true sells almost purely on its exhaust sound alone, which the Supra doesn't have. And somehow, the 370 makes 19 inch wheels look proportional instead of tiny.
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I quite like this look:
I wonder how the official rocket bunny kit would look
As I was looking for more renders, I found this post. It seems like the yellow Supra was revealed elsewhere (Denmark?)
I wonder how the official rocket bunny kit would look
As I was looking for more renders, I found this post. It seems like the yellow Supra was revealed elsewhere (Denmark?)
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CodeRedR51
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I really, really like the Nismo 370Z, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Supra waltzes all over it both in terms of performance and how it drives. In every respect other than outright performance a GT86 drives better than a 370Z already, and as a great many people have pointed out, the new Supra isn't far removed from being a GT86 with about 75% more power.
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The thing I find most annoying about the Supra has been confirmed.
Those door vents are a HUGE component of the design of the car...I would add not one of the better components... And they are fake?? The MKIV supra had real brake cooling vents! Come on Toyota....
Those door vents are a HUGE component of the design of the car...I would add not one of the better components... And they are fake?? The MKIV supra had real brake cooling vents! Come on Toyota....
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Tada-san speaks through a translator (or he did when I last spoke to him!), so I think there's a possibility some of his quotes have been lost in translation. I'm led to believe the vents are still there for homologation purposes (the UK PR team has said as much), but it's probably not quite as simple as popping some plastic caps off.
My interpretation is that the vents are in the right place to have a purpose in a racing model, and need to be there for that purpose, but actually rendering them functional isn't simply a case of whipping some plastic blanking plates out.
I like Torch, but his whole schtick is getting wound-up over pretty insignificant things, and a few blurry screen-grabs from videos perhaps aren't the best way of debunking something complicated and technical like aerodynamics.
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My post wasn't so much about that they may or may not be convertible to functional purpose nor second guess Tada, more that the fake vents (especially the door ones) exist at all. I don't see evidence to support they are functional on the race car either. Unless I'm not seeing something? I'm not an aerodynamicist by any stretch, but they do look almost unusable to begin with.
I don't really care about fake vents so much in general (I've detailed enough fake louvers, modesty paneling and spandrel glass in my time
), but for it to be such a major part of the design and it be fake is a little strange to me. Ever since that patent image was leaked I've felt pretty strongly about the appearance of the door vent. To know that it isn't even functional just triggered me.
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Keef
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The 370 doesn't sell anymore, true, but I think the reason it doesn't sell isn't necessarily because it's old. I think it's because it's not competitive with the sales kings of the segment, and with the more premium offerings.
The Mustang is probably the most sports car-like of the American offerings, especially when optioned with its sport packages. Not only is it as sporty as a 370, but it's cheaper than the Nismo and also more useable due to its size. Rear seats, big trunk, etc. So, if practicality and price is the reason the 370 can't compete with the Mustang, how is he Supra going to do it? That car is even smaller than the 370.
On the premium end of the spectrum we've got BMW's own M2 which is the same price as the launch Supra but with 405 hp, and rear seats, and a useable trunk. The Cayman starts cheaper than the M2 or Supra, but is less powerful than either and much less practical. Then again, it's sales numbers are reflective of that. The Z4...honestly, I can't see many people cross-shopping this German convertible with a Japanese sports car. Not sure what else competes honestly. The TT-RS doesn't seem like the best value being more expensive and still being tiny, although it's the AWD option. The Lexus RC350 starts at 44, and 46 for the AWD version. That's a lot of premium year-round car for less than the Supra.
Here in the US, ain't nobody gon be cross-shoppin a Jag-you-are with a Supra. I think the Porsche, Audi, and any convertible are also out of the question. So that leaves the M2 which is a damn M car, I mean come on, the Nismo and Mustang which both save enough money to buy a second car for winter (the GT350 starts at at the Supra's base of $59k btw), and on the far end of the Spectrum the Lexus RC350 which starts at only $50k. Literally all of these cars are either more practical, or cheaper, or both than the Supra. The only thing they're not as good at is being brand new.
For $59,000, if you had the chance to get a Toyota with a bunch of expensive BMW parts underneath it, or a freaking GT350, which one would you get? The answer is obvious, and it's not even a matter of practicality. The GT350 is on another planet of badassery than a ToyMW with an automatic.
The thing I find most annoying about the car is that is has lug bolts instead of lug nuts. You ever swapped wheels and tires on a car with lug bolts?
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Not to go off topic too much, but it really isn't. I'm a big fan of the current Mustang too but it's a bit of a yacht next to a 370, and a 370's no spring chicken. A Kia Stinger feels more like a sports car than a basic Mustang GT.
I know price is a big deal, particularly in America, but are people really choosing their sports cars over there based on which is bigger, rather than which drives the best?
I'm not sure that's really the case either. If a flashy badge mattered that much then the original 240Z would never have blitzed the market like it did, and Lexus wouldn't have annihilated Mercedes-Benz with the original LS400 when that first came out.
For someone who's just dismissed a bunch of relatively similar cars as likely to be cross-shopped with the Supra, I'm not sure why you think there's a Venn diagram somewhere where buyers of a small Japanese sports car and an enormous V8 muscle car overlap to such an extent. The GT350's another car I think is great, but if I was in the market for a Supra it wouldn't even be on my radar, regardless of whether it's the same price. I'm sure an optioned-up 5-series or an Escalade are also Supra money but I wouldn't cross-shop those either.
Keef
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Yes, as evidenced by the 370's market share being whittled down to only the hardest-core sports car customers, and by that I mean the people who demand a manual and demand a Japanese car. Like, if you're dead-set on an 86 or Miata but you wish they had more power, you get a 370. These people respect the Mustang but would never consider buying one.
And that encompasses pretty much every sale of the 370 these days. This is America - we've got a lot of road to cover and they're pretty rough, and half the country gets snow 3+ months of the year. As far as I can tell, the only demographic that's actually going to buy a Supra are wealthy hardcore Japanese sports fans, and I say "wealthy" because these are the folks who would even begin to accept a flappy-paddle Supra. Everybody else is either going to get something more comfortable and practical, something AWD, or something with a manual.
Toyota seems to know that this car won't sell worth a damn and they've brushed it off saying sports cars are about a company image rather than profit. Basically the only crutch this car has to lean on in the US market is that the 370 is old.
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Is that not just because it's ancient and literally everyone who ever wanted a 370Z already has one now? I feel like it being relatively impractical is barely a factor here.
I think you're underestimating the sheer size of the US market, and how little the average buyer, even sports car buyers, gives a toss about a manual gearbox.
I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but my suspicion is the car will sell better than you're anticipating it will. It's a very different car to a Mustang and will likely find different buyers as a result, and the price difference to a 370Z seems like a non-issue to me because if someone wanted a 370Z they'd have bought one by now rather than waiting for Toyota to finally make a Supra. The M2 you mentioned seems like a reasonable comparison, but again I'm not sure how much overlap there is between Bimmer people and Japanese car people - and whether either car will be on the other's radar.
The manual thing is neither here nor there. I'm sure some people will actively not choose to buy the car because it's not offered with a manual, but whether that's statistically significant or not remains to be seen.
