Nissan 400Z Makes Gaming Debut in Project CARS 3

3,970
Canada
The Great White North
abetterplaya
Oh you mean the makers of the game that said "it's all the sim you'll ever need"?
This is starting to get embarrassing. You're sitting here trying to defend something that a) barely anyone plays due to the fact of the subject matter we're talking about right now and b) the people who do own this and use this can blatantly see that PC3 makes no attempt at coming close to a sim realm like rF2, AMS2, ACC and their like.
I don't even see what you're driving at here in the first place. I'm so lost I don't even know what your point is anymore. Is it that PC3 offers the most realistic experience of the cars they represent? Did the makers of the game go into any detail on how they modeled the physics of running over big blocks to get points? Did they get any "race car drivers" to run over the big blocks so they could have the best opinion on running over big blocks to get points?
I think discussion on the other forum is pretty quite right now. Perhaps we should all go over there and see what happens when we give our opinion about PCars 3.
 
337
Belgium
Belgium
focus2sport
As long as that opinion is based on facts and not try dancing around them like many seem to be doing in here...

Asking for proof is what's expected here but if one comes up with proof and it doesn't suit certain individuals it is either lies or gets deleted entirely...
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,304
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
Asking for proof is what's expected here but if one comes up with proof and it doesn't suit certain individuals it is either lies or gets deleted entirely...
I already warned your colleague about making stuff up, and I don't expect to have to do so again with another PC forum/discord moderator.

Firstly, you're in the wrong thread yet again, just as your colleague was. This is a thread for talking about the Nissan 400Z Proto in PC3. I know, because I wrote the article that created the thread.

More importantly, your post is an outright lie. No "proof" of anything has been "deleted entirely" - in fact nothing is "deleted entirely", ever:

upload_2021-3-5_22-24-37.png


In fact no "proof" (you mean "evidence", I suspect) of your counter-claim has been offered at all. "The devs told me" is simply meaningless here; aside from the fact we know you moderate on the PC forum/discord (and the entire racing game community is fully aware of what that means) you have no established credibility here and, as per the first part of this paragraph, are entirely willing to create total falsehoods to support your position.

You've recently taken to posting screengrabs from the pre-launch developer blog as evidence, which I hope is not the totality of "the devs told me". But also I kind of do, given how telling that would be.

The user you are constantly attacking (despite the fact he quite likes the game) has shown actual evidence of his reasoning. Literally nothing has been tabled against it.


As per my previous message, we will not allow you to turn this part of this site into yours. Put up or shut up. And if you're going to put up, do it in the right thread, rather than dragging it across every one you can find.
 
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mef

209
GTP_Mef
[but I think it's safe to say that PCS uses hidden assists]

... Sigh...


I don't think so, some of you should refresh your memory by reading this blog. Even the (much argued) "no assists" is in there:

https://www.projectcarsgame.com/three/news/developer-blog-1/

And:

View attachment 995588

Straight from a dev:

View attachment 995590

I’ve read the blog. I’m not convinced they made the right call about what they describe about their tire model choices.
The meta critic reviews suggest a lot of people are confused by their choices, too. If somebody gets fun out if it, cool. Im not interested in pcars as pseudo sim arcade title.

Edit: From Reading other posts it sounds you have a relationship or bias to this game or it’s devs. It may be better to read people’s views and take that as feedback rather than justify choices. Anyhow, I wasn’t offended but it does color your posts.
 
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1,413
United States
MI
This can all be ended quite easily. Someone brought up a point of how/if they tested the new 400Z in order to get any information on how the real car handled. I then said none of that happened, they took some basic info on the car, threw it on a model of the car and just guestimated the rest seeing as none of the cars in PC3 really represent a simulation of their real life counterparts (yes, I'll say it again - - - none). You know they never tested a 400z, I know they never drove one, everyone knows they never had any hands on with the car (yes this is a guess but come on).

Then "Public Relations" over here tried telling everyone how realistic Project Cars 3 is, and we all had a good laugh. My sides are still hurting. Not hurting as bad as SMS's wallets after releasing PC3 but none the less a good stout laughing pain.

Edit - I still think it's a good addition to PC3 and the pack is fun. There's nothing wrong with saying PC3 is arcadey. It can be fun when in the mood for that type of thing. Stop taking offence because someone else sees a game in a different light than you do.
 
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Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
73,304
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
This can all be ended quite easily. Someone brought up a point of how/if they tested the new 400Z in order to get any information on how the real car handled. I then said none of that happened, they took some basic info on the car, threw it on a model of the car and just guestimated the rest seeing as none of the cars in PC3 really represent a simulation of their real life counterparts (yes, I'll say it again - - - none). You know they never tested a 400z, I know they never drove one, everyone knows they never had any hands on with the car (yes this is a guess but come on).
Which is pretty standard. As a rough example, nobody at PD has driven any of the Vision GT cars (the Bugatti and VW Roadster are driveable though), or the fictional Gr.1/Gr.3/Gr.4/Gr.B race cars, and even some of the real, but expensive and rare, stuff is pretty unlikely too. A lot of it has to be guesswork; intelligent, informed guesswork, with CAD files to hand, but guesswork.


Oddly, the only time I even recall seeing the 400Z in motion was this video from Nissan, and it seemed rather on the leisurely side:



Then "Public Relations" over here tried telling everyone how realistic Project Cars 3 is, and we all had a good laugh. My sides are still hurting. Not hurting as bad as SMS's wallets after releasing PC3 but none the less a good stout laughing pain.

I'd think their wallets are fine. B-N took any hit as the publisher for PC3, then Codemasters bought SMS, and then EA bought Codemasters.
 
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1,413
United States
MI
Which is pretty standard. As a rough example, nobody at PD has driven any of the Vision GT cars (the Bugatti and VW Roadster are driveable though), or the fictional Gr.1/Gr.3/Gr.4/Gr.B race cars, and even some of the real, but expensive and rare, stuff is pretty unlikely too. A lot of it has to be guesswork; intelligent, informed guesswork, with CAD files to hand, but guesswork.


Oddly, the only time I even recall seeing the 400Z in motion was this video from Nissan, and it seemed rather on the leisurely side:





I'd think their wallets are fine. B-N took any hit as the publisher for PC3, then Codemasters bought SMS, and then EA bought Codemasters.
I agree, they're doing fine. I take back my statement. It was a bad attempt at a joke. :D
 

mef

209
GTP_Mef
I don’t like GTS’s Vgt cars either.

For all I know those cars are Mumbo jumbo and I wished they weren’t in the game. It feels like driving an ad.

It made me cringe watching all those videos of designers explaining the process. I rather would have watched detail on actual cars. Anyhow, sorry for off topic but it’s an example of marketing taking over ‘the real driving simulator’, I feel.
 
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Wolfe

Physics Critic
Premium
13,356
United States
Wisconsin
Wolfe2x7
In the end, cars are a bundle of measurements -- a batch of numbers. I know this doubly well now, developing my own sim. Things as easy to reference as inputting accurate factory toe angles can have an outsized effect on handling. I didn't even have to do anything to prepare my tire model for it. I just pivoted the alignment of the wheels.

On the other hand, things like true-to-life spring stiffness, dampers, and effects of fully 3D suspension geometry are more difficult to pin down. Also the distribution of mass -- by default a physics engine assumes that an object has uniform density within its shape.

I'd say you can easily get into the ballpark of a car's traits just from data and, as was said, educated guesswork and intuition.
 
3,970
Canada
The Great White North
abetterplaya
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337
Belgium
Belgium
focus2sport
Hahaha... Oh boy... Did i ever claim anything about Nissan?

No, i claimed that SMS said that it's built realisticly... Which is exactly what's been said in the article.

Calling me a liar is therefore uncalled for, the most you can possibly claim is that the writer of the article or the dev that actually drove the car is lying.Mind you, calling Jan Frischkorn a liar would be terrible.
Nissan also didn't deny anything, they didn't confirm...
Unfortunately some choose to shoot the messenger... And still do.
 
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679
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Hahaha... Oh boy... Did i ever claim anything about Nissan?

No, i claimed that SMS said that it's built realisticly... Which is exactly what's been said in the article.

Calling me a liar is therefore uncalled for, the most you can possibly claim is that the writer of the article or the dev that actually drove the car is lying.Mind you, calling Jan Frischkorn a liar would be terrible.
Nissan also didn't deny anything, they didn't confirm...
Unfortunately some choose to shoot the messenger... And still do.
You're the only one using the words liar here bud, We understand the crusade you're on

I was going to buy the Legend and Power pack this weekend since these are the only one where the cars interest me really, but the attitude of yourself as lead moderator and your fellow members have actually put me off, doubt I'll play the game now either, there other games I can fill my time with and have a more accommodating environment
 
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337
Belgium
Belgium
focus2sport
Again you still haven't shown any proof in any of your arguments, the articles you shared today isn't proof

So that's not evidence to what i said about the Nissan being modeled as realisticly as possible?
What the hell do you guys want?
A notaried statement?
A voice recording?
A head to head Q&A?

This is twisting every which way possible, just to not have to admit you're wrong.
I'm done, before i'm the only one (again) of getting accused of going off topic...
 
3,970
Canada
The Great White North
abetterplaya
Here read a little snippet of what he said. Truly amazing . Yes I guess Nissans cars don't loose fuel and have magic tires too. SMS sense and imagination 🤬 me.


Since we’ve all been working on race cars for over 15 years at the studio, we have a "sense"of how various manufacturers go racing, and we set about building "what we "imagined" Nissan would create if they made the Z Proto for GT4 racing."
 
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13,702
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
So that's not evidence to what i said about the Nissan being modeled as realisticly as possible?
What the hell do you guys want?
A notaried statement?
A voice recording?
A head to head Q&A?
They're using their means to reproduce real life qualities of a vehicle that they have no idea about yet. Which is basically throwing numbers at it to likely make it drive as close to a RWD vehicle in general, probably borrowing from other cars. It's not to hard to grasp.

This is twisting every which way possible, just to not have to admit you're wrong.
I'm done, before i'm the only one (again) of getting accused of going off topic...
You're projecting here. You're also playing victim too.
 
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679
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
So that's not evidence to what i said about the Nissan being modeled as realisticly as possible?
What the hell do you guys want?
A notaried statement?
A voice recording?
A head to head Q&A?

This is twisting every which way possible, just to not have to admit you're wrong.
I'm done, before i'm the only one (again) of getting accused of going off topic...

Right so reading the article properly, the car is based in the US and is Nissan’s one-off twin-turbo 3.0L V-6 “test-mule”,
So then Nissan sent CAD files and Photos to SMS where they compared these CAD drawings to a 2020 Nissan 370Z, then the car gets made in Project CARS and then Jan gets to drive it, he drives the car virtually not the real thing in the US....
 
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3,970
Canada
The Great White North
abetterplaya
So that's not evidence to what i said about the Nissan being modeled as realisticly as possible?
What the hell do you guys want?
A notaried statement?
A voice recording?
A head to head Q&A?

This is twisting every which way possible, just to not have to admit you're wrong.
I'm done, before i'm the only one (again) of getting accused of going off topic...
Please tell me that this guy that tests the cars and makes setups, isn't the same guy that did them for PCars 2.
I can get an all wheel drive Volkswagon Polo going faster around Daytona than a Nascar. So in reality he has no idea what he's doing.
 
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39,036
I'm confused how this is even something that's in question, considering this is a forum about a game series where the developer applied "best guess" specs and driving physics to concept cars, prototypes and preproduction vehicles for over twenty years.



SMS doesn't know how the next Z drives. SMS doesn't know if their recreation is accurate. They modeled the car from the concept, presumably with reference materials provided to them by Nissan; and implemented specs to interact with the physics engine that were maybe provided by Nissan (but maybe are just estimates) but even if they weren't it doesn't matter because Nissan hasn't finished developing the car yet.
 

McLaren

Premium
41,279
United States
Texas
Partyboy78

Beezer
Someone brought up a point of how/if they tested the new 400Z in order to get any information on how the real car handled. I then said none of that happened, they took some basic info on the car, threw it on a model of the car....
SMS
Nissan were great to work with, not only sharing their CADs, but also sending their photographers to the US (where the car was based) to collect the hundreds of photos we needed to get it built on time.
Beezer
....and just guestimated the rest seeing as none of the cars in PC3 really represent a simulation of their real life counterparts (yes, I'll say it again - - - none).
SMS
Obviously, we’re all car nuts here at SMS, so the physics team had an especially good time pouring over the CADs and comparing it to the previous gen’s 2020 Nissan 370Z (also in the Power Pack DLC) to see what Nissan has changed and improved. I could tell you a couple of secrets, but I think I’ll keep those to myself!
Beezer
You know they never tested a 400z, I know they never drove one, everyone knows they never had any hands on with the car (yes this is a guess but come on).
SMS
Knowing the car is basically as close to the real-thing as current simulation technology allows and knowing the only people in the world who’ve driven it (and who will ever drive it) are Nissan’s small group of real-world test drivers—well, you know, it’s pretty cool!
SMS
...but also sending their photographers to the US (where the car was based) to collect the hundreds of photos we needed to get it built on time..

While maybe a tad exaggerated in his coming across, Beezer wasn't really wrong in his post. Even his guess was correct, Nissan sent folks to the car to get the photos, not SMS according to the article.
 
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Scaff

Moderator
26,253
United Kingdom
He/Him
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ScaffGTP
Hahaha... Oh boy... Did i ever claim anything about Nissan?

No, i claimed that SMS said that it's built realisticly... Which is exactly what's been said in the article.
What else would you expect them to say? That they half-arsed it because they assigned the tea-lady to do it?

Calling me a liar is therefore uncalled for,
No one has called you that, people have pointed out that the article text in full is not quite as definitive as your post implied.

the most you can possibly claim is that the writer of the article or the dev that actually drove the car is lying.
Based on what is said the article the dev never drove the actual car, only the virtual version, and the wording of the article is clear in its attempts to blur what is being claimed, with regard to the exact accuracy of the recreation.

Mind you, calling Jan Frischkorn a liar would be terrible.
Good job no-one did then!

Nissan also didn't deny anything, they didn't confirm...
Unfortunately some choose to shoot the messenger... And still do.
No, they pointed out that the article text in full is not quite as definitive as your post implied, and that you missed out on a rather significant piece of context.

The piece is interesting and of value to the community, the manner in which you presented it, and then started to throw inaccurate and misleading accusations about isn't. You will stop claiming people are calling you a liar until the point you can actually support that with some evidence, and you most certainly will stop with the passive-aggressive approach that seems to be your new normal.
 
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4,108
Ireland
Warwick, UK
PJTierney
PJTierney
The piece is interesting and of value to the community, the manner in which you presented it, and then started to throw inaccurate and misleading accusations about isn't. You will stop claiming people are calling you a liar until the point you can actually support that with some evidence, and you most certainly will stop with the passive-aggressive approach that seems to be your new normal.
If I could step in here @Konan. It's all well and good supporting the game you (indirectly) work with; I do it all the time.

However, there's a balance to be struck between providing information and "defending". Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and as a result everybody is entitled to disagree with said opinions if needs be.

When people disagree on those things, it is (typically) not a personal attack, however in the modern world of games discourse many people form such strong attachments to brands that they form part of their personalities, and as such any criticism of those brands is seen by them as a criticism of themselves.

This mindset is the primary driver behind the "console wars", review-bombing and whatever iRacing fans get up to when Austin Ogonoski used to post videos. If you (or anybody else) senses that that is the driving factor behind your discussions online, it's best to take a step back, look at the facts of the topic (if any are available) and deliver those; then deliver opinions afterwards in a more balanced manner.

Games and brands don't need white-knighting :)
 
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Wolfe

Physics Critic
Premium
13,356
United States
Wisconsin
Wolfe2x7
I feel like there is more distance than necessary between some opposing viewpoints here, given that, like @Tornado said, the methodology SMS used to model the car is extremely ordinary. It has little to do with a developer's credibility and nothing to do with the accuracy of the physics engine interpreting any fabricated specifications -- for or against.
 

IfAndOr

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IfAndOr
XB1:Yes. XBL:No
A very well thought out post @PJTierney 👍

Games and brands don't need white-knighting
Quite right. It's not like you're defending the honour of a fair maiden. :)
(And it also attracts further antagonistic Black Knights who know exactly what they're doing)


And sorry, I asked the Nissan question in the first place. :guilty: I chose to back out at the time when I saw where the discussion was heading!
While I understand the approach developers use to model the cars and their handling I was wondering if Nissan had any input into this. It seems they did, so question answered.
 
679
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
A very well thought out post @PJTierney 👍


Quite right. It's not like you're defending the honour of a fair maiden. :)
(And it also attracts further antagonistic Black Knights who know exactly what they're doing)


And sorry, I asked the Nissan question in the first place. :guilty: I chose to back out at the time when I saw where the discussion was heading!
While I understand the approach developers use to model the cars and their handling I was wondering if Nissan had any input into this. It seems they did, so question answered.

You don't need to feel bad for how the discussion went or feel like you had an influence in it,
In fact I am going to buy this pack and the legends pack this weekend and give it a go (despite my feelings on how the game and studio are indirectly represented by some people), comparing the cars to each other around Sugo will be a bit of fun