No more new content needed until bugs fixed

CJSpencer77

CJSpencer77

591
England
London, UK
TAM-Spencer
I for one want no new features, please PD dont add anything else untill you fix what is already here,

* every time someone makes a pit stop you get a lag spike which makes long online races impossble, this is compunded if multiple cars pit at once, which they will in an enduro
* once a pit stop has been made the tyre wear and grip level can be wrong
* 0 ABS Brakes have been broken since patch 1.02, most race cars are unusable with ABS 0
* Bathurst is buggy as hell
* RA menu still doesnt work ( vital for reco cars on ABS 0 again )
* And just to top it off the patch 1.03 that adds a new car instead of fixing the real issues is causing crashes

and so on and so on .....

Am I really the only one that is far more interested in fixing what is broken so we have a solid base for future updates rather than piling more pressure on a broken foundation ???

PD's priorities are completely messed up

They fix the custom wheel bug which can be side stepped by not changing the rims but leave all the game killing bugs alone.

If we have a solid working base to start with i would personnaly love loads of new content, but atm i have had to put a hold on the league that i run mainly because of the pit stop bugs listed above, im sure most leagues that run endurance/pit stop races have been put on hold as well

(edit) - I posted this in new 1.03 patch thread which got closed, i shouldnt of posted it there as it was off topic, i was just getting frustrated with the real issues not getting fixed, I apolagise for posting this in the wrong place to start with.
 
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CJSpencer77
I for one want no new features, please PD dont add anything else untill you fix what is already here,

* every time someone makes a pit stop you get a lag spike which makes long online races impossble
* once a pit stop has been made the tyre wear and grip level can be wrong
* 0 ABS Brakes have been broken since patch 1.02, most race cars are unusable with ABS 0
* Bathurst is buggy as hell
* And just to top it off the patch 1.03 that adds a new car instead of fixing the real issues is causing crashes

and so on and so on .....

Am I really the only one that is far more interested in fixing what is broken so we have a solid base for future updates rather than piling more pressure on a broken foundation ???

PD's priorities are completely messed up

They fix the custom wheel bug which can be side stepped by not changing the rims but leave all the game killing bugs alone.

(edit) - I posted this in new 1.03 patch thread which got closed, i shouldnt of posted it there as it was off topic, i was just getting frustrated with the real issues not getting fixed, I apolagise for posting this in the wrong place
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Please PD, don't listen to that first sentence above.

As for everything else, bug fixes are great, bring them on!
 
CJSpencer77
A million cars and tracks is worthless if you cant race them properly to start with.

Im not saying i dont want new content, i just want the exisiting content to work first.
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I disagree. And I'm not saying I don't want bug fixes, but none of the bugs that I've seen so far is really game-breaking for me, so I don't mind waiting for them to get fixed and I certainly don't mind getting new content while waiting.
 
I think some are missing the disconnect between development and repair, I can not believe the same individuals/departments are responsible for modeling new cars and debugging code.

It will almost always be faster for one team to develop new products, especially one as superficial as a new car, than for another team rewriting the base code of the game.

While I agree that the more important issues need to be resolved, PD obviously has quite a few irons in the fire.

Quite frankly, there is more money in publishing advertising for Toyota and BMW on time, than they will lose from lost sales due to issues in the game play.

Let us not forget the lead time on projects like this, FT1 and M4 are pretty long term projects, with months if not years of development behind them. The game play bugs, while they should have been dealt with in beta, are still relatively new projects to deal with.
 
Totally agree!

Get the basics right first before adding new stuff like the totally pointless moon rover!

Sounds PD sounds !..... For God sake the SOUNDS!!!

How are we supposed to enjoy driving the things when that monotonous drone is emanating from the car?

Don't tell me "Put it in small theatre mode, get some £5000 speakers, a handmade by 40 Virgins Amplifier and connect them with super secret NASA space wire and they sound relatively close to a 1.1litre Daewoo Matiz, so stop moaning and whining you troll - Kaz for President of the world, all hail King Kaz"
 
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hognhominy
I think some are missing the disconnect between development and repair, I can not believe the same individuals/departments are responsible for modeling new cars and debugging code.

It will almost always be faster for one team to develop new products, especially one as superficial as a new car, than for another team rewriting the base code of the game.

While I agree that the more important issues need to be resolved, PD obviously has quite a few irons in the fire.

Quite frankly, there is more money in publishing advertising for Toyota and BMW on time than they will lose from "small" quirks in the game play.
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As a professional programmer with 17 years experience in the work place, trust me the difference between development and maintanance is not lost on me at all, to start with we have Alpha and Beta testers before anything is released, ( PD should be taking notes ) whenever a critical bug is found it takes priority before anything else.

I do agree about your comment about the money involved with large companies like BMW and Toyota, its definatly a fair point and they obvioulsy have commitments to be met, but the exisiting bugs to most of the online community are not small quirks by any stretch of the imagination.
 
CJSpencer77
in the work place, trust me the difference between development and maintanance is not lost on me at all, to start with we have Alpha and Beta testers before anything is released, ( PD should be taking notes ) whenever a critical bug is found it takes priority before anything else.

I do agree about your comment about the money involved with large companies like BMW and Toyota, but the exisiting bugs are not small quirks by any stretch of the imagination.
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As a professional programmer with 17 years experience, could you please give your definition of a "critical bug"?
 
I have been driving without ABS the entire time, there is NO problem with ABS! The only weird 'issue' is that the default balance is much stronger on some cars than others.

Also, what's supposed to be wrong with Bathurst?
 
Morphisor
I have been driving without ABS the entire time, there is NO problem with ABS! The only weird 'issue' is that the default balance is much stronger on some cars than others.

Also, what's supposed to be wrong with Bathurst?
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Most of the race cars lock up really easy with ABS 0, i dont know if you was using ABS 0 when the game was at 1.01 but the brakes were awesome, you could use a whole lot more of the pedal movement before lock up, i guess the main issue for most of the guys who use ABS 0 was how great the brakes felt at 1.01 compared to the change that was made with patch 1.02, but a whole load of the race cars are awfull with ABS 0 now.

And Bathurst is real buggy online, myself and quite a few others lose all the sound, or the whole thing freezes
 
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CJSpencer77
lol no, im not even going down that road where you pick everything that i say apart, all i will say is organised online racing is impossible at the moment and for a whole load of us that is pretty critical.
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Thanks. Now stop moaning and get back to racing.
 
Maybe people don't have idea how big games companies like PD work.
They have a (seperate) sound department, they have a "new car model" department, they have a seperate department for the menu's, department of new tracks etc. etc.

New content and "bug fixing" are done by different departments.
The argument for "first fixing bugs before adding content" is bogus.

(I think I already said something along the same line on this forum)
You don't want a painter to do the plumbing.
Or a carpenter to do the electricity.
A dry waller doing the roof?

Catch my drift?
 
CJSpencer77
Most of the race cars lock up really easy with ABS 0, i dont know if you was usuing ABS 0 when the game was at 1.01 but the brakes were awesome, you could use a whole lot more of the pedal movement before lock up, i guess the main issue for most of the guys who use ABS 0 was how great the brakes felt at 1.01 compared to the change that was made with patch 1.02, but a whole load of the race cars are awfull with ABS 0 now.
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There is an issue with race brakes where they lock up really easy, but 0 ABS is fine on roadcars. So that bug is probably more related to the race brakes than to ABS.
 
Rrralphster
Maybe people don't have idea how big games companies like PD work.
They have a (seperate) sound department, they have a "new car model" department, they have a seperate department for the menu's, department of new tracks etc. etc.

New content and "bug fixing" are done by different departments.
The argument for "first fixing bugs before adding content" is bogus.

(I think I already said something along the same line on this forum)
You don't want a painter to do the plumbing.
Or a carpenter to do the electricity.
A dry waller doing the roof?

Catch my drift?
Click to expand...

I catch your drift

Now could someone kick the "bug fix" department up the a*se please?

Catch my drift?
 
CJSpencer77
Get 10 guys together, go online, set a 3 lap race up, have 5 of the guys pit lap 1 , see what happens to the other 5 that are on the track
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Yes, I play with other 13 players : no problem.

Rrralphster
Maybe people don't have idea how big games companies like PD work.
They have a (seperate) sound department, they have a "new car model" department, they have a seperate department for the menu's, department of new tracks etc. etc.

New content and "bug fixing" are done by different departments.
The argument for "first fixing bugs before adding content" is bogus.

(I think I already said something along the same line on this forum)
You don't want a painter to do the plumbing.
Or a carpenter to do the electricity.
A dry waller doing the roof?

Catch my drift?
Click to expand...

Exactly.

PoDi can fix bugs AND add contents simultaneously. And happily!
 
CJSpencer77
I do agree about your comment about the money involved with large companies like BMW and Toyota, its definatly a fair point and they obvioulsy have commitments to be met, but the exisiting bugs to most of the online community are not small quirks by any stretch of the imagination.
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I agree, reworded for better communication.

CJSpencer77
As a professional programmer with 17 years experience in the work place, trust me the difference between development and maintanance is not lost on me at all, to start with we have Alpha and Beta testers before anything is released, ( PD should be taking notes ) whenever a critical bug is found it takes priority before anything else.
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This is very true, however the individual's skills required to rework code are significantly different that those who are picking out what color to render a new car in*. Sometimes it is better to remain compartmentalized as the influx of people unfamiliar with the current issue may hinder repair.

At this point the game has been live for 39 days, much of that over holidays, while I'm sure they planned for some issues, staff was most likely thin. It seems a little early to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I think we also differ on what is a critical bug, GT6 is not causing PS3's around the world to burst into flames, nor is the game completely unusable. These are problems that affect a lower portion of users, granted this portion will be the most vocal, hardcore users.

As for the tire "bug" specifically, I am not convinced that this is a "bug" but possibly an attempt at simulating "scrub"/heat cycled tires, with the pit replacement tires being new/"sticker" tires.

This would explain the lower grip levels, shorter life, etc.

*(a gross oversimplification of modeling).
 
hognhominy
I agree, reworded for better communication.



This is very true, however the individual's skills required to rework code are significantly different that those who are picking out what color to render a new car in*. Sometimes it is better to remain compartmentalized as the influx of people unfamiliar with the current issue may hinder repair.

At this point the game has been live for 39 days, much of that over holidays, while I'm sure they planned for some issues, staff was most likely thin. It seems a little early to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I think we also differ on what is a critical bug, GT6 is not causing PS3's around the world to burst into flames, nor is the game completely unusable. These are problems that affect a lower portion of users, granted this portion will be the most vocal, hardcore users.

As for the tire "bug" specifically, I am not convinced that this is a "bug" but possibly an attempt at simulating "scrub"/heat cycled tires, with the pit replacement tires being new/"sticker" tires.

This would explain the lower grip levels, shorter life, etc.

*(a gross oversimplification of modeling).
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First of all thank you for a proper argument rather than the normal nonsense you get when a difference of opinions arises

Like you say it has only been 39 days, and its true to say my frustration in having to suspend the league i run is aggravating my point of view, and yes " critical" is maybe too harsh.

The main problem is the pit lag problem, i cant believe there are people who havent noticed this though, like i said above, get 10 guys together and set a short race have 5 guys pit lap 1 and see what happens to the guys on track, when 1 person pits you get a small lag spike, when a load of guys pit together the problem gets compounded and it can kill races.

I run in a league with 26 people in two tiers and everyone has this problem no matter who hosts, it stops pretty much all organised races.

The other problems are not so "critical" ;) but they simply add to the mix, and id like to see PD fix them before they add any features that compound them, if you remember GT5 every patch only ever seemed to fix the last patches issues and add some new ones to boot.

Im just hoping for somthing different.
 
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CJSpencer77
First of all thank you for a proper argument rather than the normal nonsense you get when a difference of opinions arises
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You would probably be surprised to learn that I am a 300lb, gun toting, moonshine swilling, redneck from the heart of Dixie who prefers mud filled Audis over pickup trucks or track days, I appreciate the complement, 212 years since the invention of the light bulb and we use technology to watch cat videos and fling poo worldwide.

CJSpencer77
The main problem is the pit lag problem, i cant believe there are people who havent noticed this though, like i said above, get 10 guys together and set a short race have 5 guys pit lap 1 and see what happens to the guys on track, when 1 person pits you get a small lag spike, when a load of guys pit together the problem gets compounded and it can kills races.

I run in a league with 26 people in two tiers and everyone has this problem no matter who hosts, it stops pretty much all organised races.

The other problems are not so "critical" ;) but they simply add to the mix, and id like to see PD fix them before they add any features that compound them, if you remeber GT5 every patch only ever seemed to fix the last patches issues and add some new ones to boot.

Im just hoping for somthing different.
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I have not experienced the pit lag issue first hand, my first thought would be with P2P network. Have you experienced this with a fixed room host?

The audio issues w/Bathurst I have seen first hand, and I can see how they can be severely detrimental to gameplay. One thing I have noticed is while experiencing the issue during practice, exiting the track and watching another car, audio works, back in your own car, no audio.

I don't see PD adding any real features, the only real adds are superfluous content with no real function. The functional issues may explain the delay in real features. If we see community, course maker, livery editors, etc. before these faults are repaired, that would be a mistake on PD's part.

I am pleased to see at least the low hanging fruit (Staggered wheels, GARG, L1R1) being addressed, and it gives me hope that the more major issues are being reworked even if they aren't live yet.
 

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