Notes on Maximising A-Spec Points

[Famine]

I had a chance today to test and crack out a theory.

"How can I maximise my potential A-spec points reward for a given race", I thought. Some of the gonks may answer "its easi just get a wurser car than the ai lololol !11!!111!", but how DOES GT4 define a worse car?

Power is an obvious starting point. So, I went to the Lupo cup, which allows in a choice of four cars - the Lupo 1.4, Lupo GTi, Lupo Cup Car and Lupo GTi Cup Car. In all cases, the AI field was made up entirely of Cup Cars and GTi Cup Cars.

So, test 1:
Lupo 1.4i, 100PS, 193pt
Lupo GTi, 116PS, 182pt
Lupo Cup Car, 123PS, 115pt
Lupo GTi Cup Car, 133PS, 117pt

Oh fudge. Looking good until that pesky GTi Cup Car wrecks the pattern - despite being the most powerful car, it garners more A-spec points than the standard Lupo Cup Car.

So, how about a power-to-weight ratio-based system? Let's look at test 1 more closely...
Lupo 1.4i, 100PS, 933kg (107.2PS/tonne), 193pt
Lupo GTi, 116PS, 975kg (119.0PS/tonne), 182pt
Lupo Cup Car, 123PS, 840kg (146.4PS/tonne), 115pt
Lupo GTi Cup Car, 133PS, 1010kg (131.7PS/tonne) 117pt

Bingo! Or so it seems. As the power-to-weight ratio increases (and PLEASE note that power-to-weight ratio is exactly that. Power per unit weight. As it increases the car gets faster. NOT a Weight-to-power ratio, which is weight per unit power and the car gets faster as it decreases. I've had this argument before, and if you disagree with me you are wrong) so the A-spec points get less.

So, I ran a quick examination of this with the Lupo 1.4i and got the results of test 2:
Lupo 1.4i, 100PS, 933kg, 107.2, 193
Lupo 1.4i, 116PS, 933kg, 124.3, 154
Lupo 1.4i, 116PS, 905kg, 128.2, 148
Lupo 1.4i, 116PS, 877kg, 132.3, 144
Lupo 1.4i, 116PS, 849kg, 136.6, 139

Not bad. As PWR steadily increases, so A-spec points decrease. Nice. Only, I'd forgotten ONE thing. I'd accounted for a PWR increase by weight loss, but not compared the weight loss cars with power increase cars to roughly the same PWR level. They should get roughly similar A-spec points. Right? Right?

Test 3:
Lupo 1.4i, 116PS, 933kg, 124.3, 154
Lupo 1.4i, 116PS, 905kg, 128.2, 148
Lupo 1.4i, 122PS, 933kg, 130.8, 164
Lupo 1.4i, 116PS, 877kg, 132.3, 144

Well, I'd like to be the first person to say "****!". We have a Lupo with a higher PWR getting disproportionately higher A-spec points. This led to my final modification of the theory, with a twin test (two cars identical in every measureable respect, but different models - to eliminate any variables other than the ones being tested). I bunged a 1996 Mitsubishi GTO SR and a 1998 Mitsubishi GTO SR into the Beginner 4WD Challenge - making sure that the grid always contained one Audi RS6 (by far the most powerful and highest PWR car competing in this tournament).

Test 4:
214PS, 1610kg, 132.9, 200
214PS, 1336kg, 160.2, 89
261PS, 1336kg, 195.4, 70
317PS, 1610kg, 196.9, 75
317PS, 1336kg, 237.3, 8

We can see that the middle car, despite having a marginally worse PWR than the fourth car, has a significantly improved A-spec points tally.

From this I conclude:

The primary determining factor in A-spec points calculation for a given field of AI cars is the player's vehicle mass, followed by a power-to-weight ratio curve.

The PWR curve appears to be different on a car-to-car basis - the Lupo Cup Car, despite having identical stats to the best AI car in the field, racked 115 points. A Lupo GTi (NON-Cup Car), with a fairly close PWR match, got 122 points. The GTO SRs, despite being 3% worse off for PWR, got only EIGHT points.

As far as I'm aware, it's only the difference to the BEST, statistically, AI car in the field that counts. After all, you only get your A-spec points for winning, so if even one car - the best car - beats you, you don't get any.

I've attempted to draw curves based on PWR and % difference from the lead AI car, to no avail, so any further thoughts on this matter would be appreciated. Nevertheless, the above theory seems to handily explain why a twelve million horsepower pickup truck still gets hundreds of A-spec points each race - it's a big fat bugger and weight is the primary function...

 

[sn00pie]

Added to Look Here Before You Ask thread.

 

[gtaddict]

Interesting experiment, but i'm not sure if many people really want all the a-spec points (i still can't figure out what they do,) but only use A-SPEC points as a measure of how competitive my race will be. Will always try to get something around 150 or moreish.

Interestingly, i cant remember what race it was for, but it might be the one with the Dodge RAM, where I ahd it tuned up yo yhe max, dominated every race easily, and was still getting awarded 200 points for it!

 

[tpijanec]

what the hell are these points for?

 

[Famine]

Bragging rights. That's about it.

gtaddict - A-spec points give no indication of how "competitive" a race will be, as you've just pointed out with the Dodge Ram.

In the Lupo Cup race, an identical car to the lead AI was given 115 points. In the 4WD challenge, a car close-to-identical in PWR was given 8 points.

 

[gtaddict]

And B-SPEC points would be even more useless "look at me, i can do as little races by watching them instead!"

I find that usually when u have between 0-30 points though for a race, it is often very easy to take the win, even though you say they have no idication.

Like if for example, you done a race which only gave you 6 a-spec points, you would know you would sail through the race.

 

[Famine]

Have you tried the Special Condition Hall yet? Stick it it Hard mode and take a WRC out there. 7 points on Grand Canyon Reverse and you'll get thrashed.

Conversely, I used an RX-8 LM on the Tsukuba Wet (Hard) race. My opponent was an Audi R8, 200 points and I leathered it.

 

[NK]

Many thanks for the above info Famine. Found it all very interesting indeed.

So, we learn more about the inner workings, not least that a fully whacked up Dodge Ram will be a seemingly easy way to accumulate some of those pesky A points. Probably not what PD was aiming at...

 

[RaDZio]

Take a 83 levin, do all mods except power mods, cars should have around 137 hp, then do a special condition hall race "capri rally normal" its vs evo or sti, You can easly win and get around 300 points from it(depending who You race, Im usually 6-10s ahead)

 

[tre]

As far as I have understood your A-spec points is what determens how fast your car is in B-spec mode. The more A-spec points you have the quicker your AI-driver will be.

 

[Ev0]

A-Spec points are probably the most pointless thing in GT4. In the Beginner 4WD challenge, I was quickly blowing through it in a 330hp Skyline R32, and got >10 pts for completely dominating the AI in one race. Next race, I saw 67pts were at stake, so I was expecting a more competitive race. So, I ended up passing the entire field before I was halfway through the first lap, and ended up winning with an even bigger margin than in the previous race, which was supposedly much harder.

 

[Famine]

No - the more B-SPEC points you have, the quicker your B-spec driver is. Or, the more he races, the better he is at it.

A-spec points have no functional operation in GT4 at all.

RaDZio - How do you manage 300 points when the maximum is 200?

 

[NK]

No - the more B-SPEC points you have, the quicker your B-spec driver is. Or, the more he races, the better he is at it.

A-spec points have no functional operation in GT4 at all.

RaDZio - How do you manage 300 points when the maximum is 200?

So it would seem that getting our AI guy out for a few blasts early on would be much more useful (in terms of the game, as opposed to the A-Spec bragging sketch) in the tortuous endurance races, knowing that we'll be able to pop in for a lap or three when the mood overcomes us.

Slowly building up a cunning strategy for March!

Indeed, the 300 point thing seemed a smidge whimsical...

 

[T100]

I personally love B-spec mode. Now I always first beat the race in A-spec or at least start it (24hours endo) but when I need a quick buck or something I throw it on B-spec mode and just do it. Also if you throw B-spec mode on the practice modes and learn the lines of the race you can really get alot better, kinda of a quick test of what your car can do and what it can't.

 

[Samelborp]

ah, if Kazunori Yamauchi were John Carmack!

thanks Famine for unveiling GT4's misteries!

 

[BadBatsuMaru]

Bingo! Or so it seems. As the power-to-weight ratio increases (and PLEASE note that power-to-weight ratio is exactly that. Power per unit weight. As it increases the car gets faster. NOT a Weight-to-power ratio, which is weight per unit power and the car gets faster as it decreases. I've had this argument before, and if you disagree with me you are wrong) so the A-spec points get less.

It's funny how often arrogant, condescending people are wrong. Your little mini-rant makes as much sense as arguing that macaroni and cheese is the opposite of cheese and macaroni, and if you disagree with me you need to go back to grammar school.


To elaborate, if you want to specifically refer to the power-to-weight ratio that is directly proportional to acceleration, you need to say "power over weight." This generally isn't necessary because you'll probably be showing the actual ratio when you give your units (such as HP/KG), but you're still wrong, and if you've "had this argument before," then all parties arguing were probably clueless.

While there are many cases where prepositions function as ordered operators (i.e. "I went to the hotel") there are just as many where order is irrelevant (i.e. "Your mom went with me").

Anyway, it's a helpful post in general (although much more data is required; I saw someone saying a modded Suzuki Capuchino -- a very light car -- got a ton of A-spec points even in races it crushed). It's just sad to see a long-time member who's more interested in stroking his ego than being civil.

 

[YZF]

No - the more B-SPEC points you have, the quicker your B-spec driver is. Or, the more he races, the better he is at it.

A-spec points have no functional operation in GT4 at all.

RaDZio - How do you manage 300 points when the maximum is 200?

On Chinese GT4 maximum you can get is 250 (maybe it is possible more, but i didn't notice it).

 

[Plopper]

From playing the Japanese version for the last month or so I must say Famine you must be right in all but one thing, I think all of the other car's stats are taken into account.

I was trying to find a car that would get 200 A-Spec points the Nurb 24 race, and must have ran the first 10+ laps 50 times, most of the time the field stayed the same except the car in 5th place on the grid, the car that's always last, when it was a Race S2000 I'd get really bad points 70+, but quit out and re-enter the race with mostly the same cars and always the same fastest car, (or one of two anyway) and as long as the Race S2000 was replaced by a better car it shot the points well into the 100+ mark.

And no I didn't find a car to do it, 175 points was the best I could get with a road Impreza with all bits and very little power modding.

 

[Trilan]

Power to weight isn't the whole story tho. because it also factors in ride height, and I believe spring rates... I didn't do thorough testing... but I was running a '00 Mustang SVT and was slated to get 97 A spec in a race, dropped the ride height (and increased the spring rate) and ran a retry race with the same line-up and the point value of the race dropped to 4. I was curious so when I was done i retried a few more times, and as the ride height increased the a spec went up as well. The spring rate also seemed to modify, thought to a much lesser extent, usually only a couple points, but not at a regular rate (sometimes increasing the SR increased the points and sometimes it lowered them).

My guess is that the game has an "optimal" spring rate for each ride height on the car and the closer to that the lower the points.

 

[35mm]

Oh fudge. Looking good until that pesky GTi Cup Car wrecks the pattern - despite being the most powerful car, it garners more A-spec points than the standard Lupo Cup Car.

.

 

[sn00pie]

.

Are you drunk or just stoned?

 

[Famine]

It's funny how often arrogant, condescending people are wrong. Your little mini-rant makes as much sense as arguing that macaroni and cheese is the opposite of cheese and macaroni, and if you disagree with me you need to go back to grammar school.


To elaborate, if you want to specifically refer to the power-to-weight ratio that is directly proportional to acceleration, you need to say "power over weight." This generally isn't necessary because you'll probably be showing the actual ratio when you give your units (such as HP/KG), but you're still wrong, and if you've "had this argument before," then all parties arguing were probably clueless.

While there are many cases where prepositions function as ordered operators (i.e. "I went to the hotel") there are just as many where order is irrelevant (i.e. "Your mom went with me").

Anyway, it's a helpful post in general (although much more data is required; I saw someone saying a modded Suzuki Capuchino -- a very light car -- got a ton of A-spec points even in races it crushed). It's just sad to see a long-time member who's more interested in stroking his ego than being civil.

What ARE you flapping about, BBM?

It's a mathematical operator. Power-to-weight ratio IS the ratio of power to weight. The latter is reduced to 1 and the former is reduced by the same proportion to deliver a result of the amount of former per unit latter. Power-to-weight ratio IS the amount of power per unit weight. As it increases so the car's potential accelerative ability - gearing and torque permitting - increase. Power-to-weight ratio IS measured in horsepower (or equivalent) per tonne (or equivalent).

In GT3 you are given a "PWR" part of your car's stats, and it's actually a WPR. Power is reduced to 1 and weight is reduced in proportion to this to give the amount of weight per unit power. WPR is measured in kilograms (or equivalent) per horsepower (or equivalent) and decreases as the car's potential accelerative ability - gearing and torque permitting - increases.

This is not a grammatical statement, it is a mathematical statement and happens to be 100% accurate. It isn't ego-stroking or arrogance - it's simply an attempt to stop the usual questions of why increasing PWR means a faster car (broadly speaking). But you've managed to conjure up an argument all of your own. It's a pity to see a long-standing member more interested in creating conflict than reasoning why the point was made.

Oh, by the way, if you think it's "Capuchino", you need to go back to grammar school.

Please bear in mind that this thread is now part of the "Look Here Before You Ask", for people to come and see information regarding aspects of the game. I don't think they want to see you attempting to pick me up on a matter of grammar which doesn't exist.


Trilan - I've yet to come across a non-power, non-weight altering part which affects A-spec points in an identical AI field. In fact, nitrous has no effect either...


YZF - 250 points are garnered in every Mission Hall race, but the maximum in a proper race is 200 points.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Call me Idiotic if you want to, but can someone please tell me how I can figure out (Mathematically) what a cars Power-To-Weight ratio is. This thread will really help in keeping GT4 challenging.

 

[Famine]

Take the vehicle power and divide it by the vehicle weight.

Usually it's done in hp (or whatever your regional unit is) per tonne or ton, as hp/kg and hp/lb give stupidly small numbers.

150hp, 1000kg = 150hp/tonne
150hp, 2204lb = 152hp/ton

(although they're the same car)

 

[TheWizard]

Well done, Famine 👍
I was playing around with different settings, too, in order to figure out how the A-spec points vary as a function of power, and power-to-weight ratio (which, by the way, you defined correctly - it doesn't have anything to do with grammar - when you say A to B ratio, it means take A and divide it by B - math or science related courses, anyone?).

For example, I purchased the MINI Cooper-S for the 'World Compact Car Race' in Professional Events and I was trying to make it handle better. Being FF, I put 200 units of ballast on the front wheels, and to my disbelief I got offered more A-spec points than I did before - all other variables held constant. Needless to say, I had a pretty good laugh My car was handling better, and yet I got offered more points.

Then it rang a bell on me: no wonder I was being offered 200 A-spec points for the Dodge RAM 1500 LARAME Hemi Quad Cab '04 (that has to be the longest name ever for a vehicle ), with its whopping 2013 Kg (after Weight Reduction: Stage 1).

Now it would be even more awesome if we could find a mathematical function that describes how A-spec points vary with Power and PWR

The Wizard.

 

[pr0gress]

tldr

 

[Famine]

I tried - and failed.

It does seem to be a straight-line relationship for the mid-range of points, and exponential at both ends (decreasing at a decreasing rate for low points and increasing at an increasing rate for high points), but it seems to vary car-to-car.

I have recently come across evidence that TYRES play a part too (which made me repeatedly mash my head into the sofa).

Oh, and I did Test 5:
Audi RS6 '02 - 487PS, 1840kg, 264.7, 10
GTO SR '96 - 317PS, 1336kg, 237.3, 8

The Audi RS6 '02 is identical to the "lead" AI car (it turns out to be slower than the RS200, oddly) and has more power, more weight and a higher PWR than the GTO SR '96 tried prevously in the race, yet gets more A-spec points... This seems to validate the theory. For now.

 

[re1987]

I can't stand people who think they are better than everyone else.

 

[TheWizard]

Would it be possible to extract this information with a program similar to MK's, in a similar fashion that was adopted for GT3?

I am sure that there is some built-in formula that the developers of the game inserted, such that the game itself can offer a certain amount of A-spec points accounting for those particular variables that it was programmed to look for - so if the game code could be 'hacked' like it was done in GT3, then we could probably find out everything we need in order to completely maximize the points for each race. Reading the rest of the post, I found out that a lot of other variables play a part: tyres, suspension, spring rate, other than, obviously, just power and PWR.

I am sorry if this is going into too much depth than it was originally planned, but I am a math freak

EDIT: Just saw this

I can't stand people who think they are better than everyone else.

And it deserves a comment.

This was completely uncalled for. Nobody here stated that he/she was better than anybody else. I can't talk for Famine (but I am sure he meant no harm, either), but I know I was only giving my opinion. And having taken a lot of upper level Engineering courses, which involve a lot of 'math talk', I can tell you for sure - without me implying to be better than anybody else - that, mathematically speaking, 'something to something else ratio' means take that 'something' and divide it by 'something else'. It might not agree with English grammar rules, but that's how it is said in math. Please let's not turn this interesting thread into a grammar war.

The Wizard.

 

[Famine]

I hate people who randomly spam useful threads.

Anyway, TW, I'm not sure. mk didn't extract any information from the game itself - just the user garage or race details. Given how points vary depending on your opponents, I doubt there's an "A-spec points multiplier" attached to your car, dependant on the level of tune.