Nurburgring - Formula GT Challenge

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 4' started by msako, Mar 8, 2007.

  1. msako

    msako

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    I only do A-Spec so no B-Spec answers please. Is it possible to win the Nurburgring race using an F1 car, or any other car for that matter? I have not figured out how to complete two laps without wearing out the rear tires. Setting the toe to zero helps, but they still wear out. I don't use a wheel or pedals, either. It can be done if you baby the car but then the AI run away from you.
     
  2. [empty space]

    [empty space]

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    yes, since the fgt so much faster than the ai that it wont be a problem. specially since the chassis on the fgt doesnt wear out. but, for every 2 laps you complete theyve done a 1/3rd or something silly like that.
     
  3. msako

    msako

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    I don't understand this comment. I'm talking about the Formula GT Challenge where you race against the Formula One cars. They are very fast.

     
  4. TuneRVisioN

    TuneRVisioN (Banned)

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    Yes. Just get aggressive with the AI when they catch up. AGGRESSION is the key to PROGRESSION. You should set up your FGT in a way that suites your style. I made mine handle great with no suprising oversteer, while still turning great. Also use the tranny trick to shift faster. Adjust the ratios in the way that would keep the car in the powerband. (High RPM) I hope this makes sense... :scared::nervous:
     
  5. [empty space]

    [empty space]

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    bah, sorry, ive the 24 hour race on the brain. but, yes, if b-spec can do it and b-spec is 2-30 seconds slower than me then a human shouldnt have that much of a problem.
     
  6. msako

    msako

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    In the Formula GT Challenge series, you're not racing road and turning cars, you're racing F1 cars. They are considerably faster than the 24-hour race.

     
  7. msako

    msako

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    What do you do for the second lap? The tires are gone by the time you read the 3/4 point. I can't find a way to bring it home to the pits for new tires.

     
  8. Blake

    Blake Premium

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    Pit every lap if you need to. You can pretty easily get the gap you need to make a stop in 1 lap.
     
  9. Car-less

    Car-less

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    Yes, it is possible. Looking at my spreadsheet I have completed all the Extreme > Formula GT races for 145 A-spec points each (except the first two races where I have lower A-spec scores). This was some time ago, so I cannot remember tuning/tactics other than to say that I did use the FGT car, and I did reduce the driving aids and downforce to free up some power.

    Re-reading your post I seem to recall frequent pitstops, and gentle throttle control to try and preserve the tyres. I also remember that one Nurburgring race (may or may not have been this one) where the AI went extra laps, but started spinning out before completing them.
     
  10. PUER518

    PUER518

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    mmmm......
     
  11. [empty space]

    [empty space]

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    i know. if b-spec won it and is slower than human drivers then ... it also helps to only carry as much fuel as youll need to complete a stint. usually 30-40 units will do.
     
  12. msako

    msako

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    I find if I reduce the throttle, they run away. I tried many different setups, the rear tires just go away. toe is set to zero, too. I just don't see how to get past the tire wear and pitting every lap just doesn't work because I end up way too far behind.

     
  13. msako

    msako

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    B-spec has nothing to do with this thread and does not answer the question of what to do about the tire wear. You start with a full tank so there no way to do anything about fuel on lap 2.

     
  14. [empty space]

    [empty space]

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    b-spec is simply a refernce. im not telling you to use b-spec. im saying if b-spec, which is slower than human drivers can do it, then a human should be able to do it without much of a problem.

    and, youre right. but you dont have to take fuel on every time you pit. being lighter should help go faster once youve a light fuel load latter in the race when you only need to take on as much fuel as you need. which usually takes less time than a tyre change.
     
  15. msako

    msako

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    In this case, no human driver has come forward with a definitive configuration, setup and strategy. Telling me that a B-spec driver is slower adds nothing to trying to solve my quandary. I've tried this at least 50 times without success. I don't even know if a B-spec driver could do it. I'm sure an A-spec driver could do it but I haven't yet been able to determine exactly how. The AI is simply too fast and they just pull away and it's a struggle to keep up with them without the tires going away. Going very light on fuel does not save the tires enough. Even running very slow doesn't save the tires and by the final straight the car cannot be kept in a straight line at full speed.

    If you've completed this using a-spec using an F1 car against other F1 cars in the Formula GT Challenge, then please let me know how. Post your setup, configuration and driving style when you did this. Otherwise, I'm not interested in hearing theoretical ponderings which are not very useful to me. Shoulda, coulda doesn't bring home the bacon in this case. It's the lone race that's keeping me from 100% at this point.

    BTW, I can beat it using a different car like the 787B, I just can't beat the F1 cars using an F1 car. My goal here is a pure 100% A-spec, void of any B-spec contamination.

     
  16. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

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    This is certainly possible. :D
    I have done it A-spec (I, like you, aimed for 100% completion in A-spec, and I did it!) and it wasn't terribly hard, although, obviously much harder than, say, the Sunday Cup! :p

    I was able to win all races in Formula GT Series using FGT car with minimum downforce settings, in order to achieve 127 A-spec points per race.

    I cannot remember my exact settings for Nurburgring, since my FGT was then setup for the races after that.

    I do recall the following though.
    Downforce set to minimum. - This will certainly not help with your tyre wear dilemma though. Would recommend full downforce settings.
    Suspension was softened to suit the bumpy surface, and ride height was increased for this reason too.
    Toe angle at the rear was decreased to -1.
    Camber angles were increased slightly.
    Brake balance set to 6 Front, 5 Rear to protect rears from locking up & wearing.
    ASM settings 0
    TCS set to 1 or 2 to prevent too much wheelspin.
    LSD settings I can't recall.
    Transmission set such that you don't quite hit maximum revs in top gear on the long back stretch towards Antoniusbrucke.

    I pitted at the end of every lap, didn't win by miles & miles, but I did win, and pretty much cleanly. You need to make near perfect laps, leave the track a lot and your chances of winning diminish.
    The fact that the AI stay out 2 laps hurts them more than you, they get into the same situation that you do after 3/4 of their 2nd lap, tyres are shredded and they spend the rest of the lap pinging off each other, sandtraps, walls etc, which allows you to make up the time you lose in the pits. Eventually the time your gaining will exceed the time they lose in their 2nd laps and you'll pass them, coming home to win.
    Try to figure out exactly how much fuel you need per lap and carry only a couple more units than that (for safeties sake!) after your tank initially drains. Lower fuel level = better tyre wear. :)

    At the moment I have the PS2 paused about 1 hour into a 4hr Enduro, so I can't retrieve any of my exact settings or fast lap times.
    I'll come back to this later when I'm done with that race.
    :cheers:
     
  17. msako

    msako

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    Thank you for this response. It's useful and encouraging. I really have thing thing about B-spec and have never used it. My memory cards all show zero miles. From what I read, it's mind-numbed and worse than arcade playing.

    Regarding downforce, full will slow you down too much in the straights, won't it? I find that something in between works best.

    I didn't tweak the brake balance that much, mainly just setting it with suggestions from the board here, but it makes sense to avoid the locking.

    Does a read toe of -1 hurt the tires much? The turning is far improved but at what cost?

    The key thing you said is to pit every lap. I'm glad you said this. If that's a valid strategy then saving the tires is not an issue anymore, I guess. I have been attempting strategies to stay out two laps. I guess that's a losing strategy. I also could not say AI struggling at the 3/4 point of the second lap. I guess I'll have to make a reconnaissance run, fall back a lap down and watch them from the rear to see how they do.

    Thanks again for the useful information.

     
  18. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

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    Strangely it's widely acknowledged that Max downforce will lead to the fastest laptimes, it had always been my thinking that it had to be adjusted for each circuit, lower for less twisty tracks with long straights and high for twisty tracks like Cote D'azur. However, that thinking went out of the window when I started competing in the WRS in GT3, all the fastest guys there tended to use high, but usually maximum downforce, and that still seems to be the case in the GT4 WRS.
    Max downforce means more grip in the bends, especially long sweeping turns where you'd be prone to sliding, and sliding = bad tyre wear, hence the downforce works to reduce this sliding tendency and therefore preserves your tyres.
    In the FGT, there's more than enough power to overcome the drag of using maximum downforce settings, and if you set your transmission as I suggested, you should be fine. Avoid the urge to push too hard in several critical spots around the track, the FGT can be highly twitchy and prone to leaving the track if you try to take certain bends flat out! Notably the right turn at Flugplatz, the left at Schwedenkreuz, the left turn at Mutkurve (or Angstkurve as it's sometimes referred to) and the gentle left under the bridge at Antoniusbrucke. You'll be approaching 200mph at a lot of these places, and leaving the track at that sort of speed will end in a huge accident, and corresponding loss of lots of time!
    If you're not familiar with the bends I'm talking about, here's a link to one of my reports that has a link to the map of Nurburgring in it!
     
  19. FLK

    FLK

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    What Smallhorses said basically. The way I did it was to pit every lap but by lap 5 or 6 I was in the lead enough to exit the pits every time ahead of the AI.

    Get rid of the -6 rear toe as it will chew your tyres and then increase the limited-slip decel level on the LSD by 10 at least to get rid of the power off oversteer that the FGT has on default setup. Also soften the suspension, dampers and raise the ride height slightly to compensate. The Nurburgring is very bumpy in places and therefore it demands a soft setup. It has been a while since I did this series so sorry if I'm being vague.

    The best thing to do is to learn the track properly in free drive mode and find out the corners you can attack on the circuit and the ones where you need to back off on. Other than that check the settings forum top thread for Scaffs tuning guides as they are by far the best resource for helping you setup the FGT properly.
     
  20. msako

    msako

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    Thanks. I set the suspension extremely soft and that really seemed to help, surprisingly with the tire wear. I am playing with the maximum rear toe it can tolerate now and still maintain wear on the tires. What I haven't quite figured out yet was when I pass them they sometimes punt me from the rear and knock me off line if I slow too much entering turns.

     
  21. DLRgian

    DLRgian

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    Usually a FGT can bottom out with the really low ride height.
     
  22. msako

    msako

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    I'm not sure what the point is here. It's common knowledge that you have to raise the ride height for Nurburgring.
     
  23. DLRgian

    DLRgian

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    Because I have seen so many people talk about it. Although I am really good at tuning I thought I would bring it up. Check your LSD because I am trying to help you.

    I can help you even further if you send me a private message and tell me how is your car behaving in terms of balance. Oversteer/Understeer and what happens under braking and such.
     
  24. msako

    msako

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    The rear is loose at speed when I get off the throttle without brakes. It's definitely LSD but I haven't figured out which way causes which behavior yet.

     
  25. DLRgian

    DLRgian

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    High LSD Deceleration will cause the car to be stable under braking and other types of deceleration. High LSD Acceleration will make your car harder to turn. The initial is the overall strength of the LSD.
     
  26. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid Premium

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    Deleted.
     
  27. BrodieBoi94

    BrodieBoi94

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    I didn't read every post so if you heard this already...suck it up...I'm thinking that since you can only have medium compound tires on the f1 car that you need to race at a medium pace... I understand the frustration of the formula 1 GT championship (I spent a whole day trying to get all gold)...If you go easy you SHOULD be able to stretch the tire life span a bit...you'll have to battle the car for sure, but it's difficult, not impossible...The other drivers are driving just as hard if not harder, so it's just a matter of flowing along with the top 2-3 A.I drivers...when they pit in for the first time, use this to your advantage so you'll know that they pit in every 2 laps, 3 laps etc.(whatever the lap may be)...Once you make the first pit stop with them try to get out ahead of them until it's time to make another pit stop... you should be able to gain a healthy lead...
     
  28. BrodieBoi94

    BrodieBoi94

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    One more thing...
    Qualify first or second bro...
    Helps to get that jump at the start...
    From there you should be able to gain a gap...
    Just drive hard, but smart...
    Push the car a bit...
     
  29. BobK

    BobK Premium

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    What an obnoxious attitude! If you can't be bothered to read what anybody else has to say, why should anybody else be bothered to read what you say? And if you don't care if people read it or not (which is what I suspect your response would be), then what's the purpose of posting in the first place?

    Oh, and don't double post, use the edit button.
     
  30. BrodieBoi94

    BrodieBoi94

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    I never realized how much of a douche I came off as when I made this post. Boy how I have matured. I can't even consider behaving like this these days. Lol.

    My apologies.
     
    BobK likes this.