Original Track Redesigns - Good or Bad? [READ OP]
- Thread starter LeGeNd-1
- 263 comments
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- New Zealand
- SkylineObsession
- Mangosaurus
I don't mind very slight changes to layouts of original tracks, like in past GT games, but in GT7 they've gone too far. Literally and figuratively.
I agree with a lot of the original post, Trial Mountain is no longer fun to drive around as it was in the past because it is now;
Etc. Deep Forest is a bit of the same, front straight too long, seems like the climb up the hill at the back of the track is not as steep, and i'm not too fond of the hairpin at the second last corner.
My suggestion, since it's too late to change what we've got, is for PD's track designers to snip out the added in longer straights on both tracks, put corners back the way they should be on both, increase the rises again, narrow down Trial Mountain a bit and then throw them into the game with a new title (something like Trial Mountain (Classic), Deep Forest (Classic)) and, if need be, don't allow them for use in Sport mode. Aka, put the pits back to the way they were.
But the chances of that happening are as good as me winning millions in Lotto, so...
I agree with a lot of the original post, Trial Mountain is no longer fun to drive around as it was in the past because it is now;
- Too wide
- Too flat (rises have been lowered)
- Last corner is a joke, and one of the worst corners of every track in GT7
- Front straight and back straight are too long now
Etc. Deep Forest is a bit of the same, front straight too long, seems like the climb up the hill at the back of the track is not as steep, and i'm not too fond of the hairpin at the second last corner.
My suggestion, since it's too late to change what we've got, is for PD's track designers to snip out the added in longer straights on both tracks, put corners back the way they should be on both, increase the rises again, narrow down Trial Mountain a bit and then throw them into the game with a new title (something like Trial Mountain (Classic), Deep Forest (Classic)) and, if need be, don't allow them for use in Sport mode. Aka, put the pits back to the way they were.
But the chances of that happening are as good as me winning millions in Lotto, so...
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- 735
- Maryland, USA
Basically exactly what everyone predicted sadly.I don't mind very slight changes to layouts of original tracks, like in past GT games, but in GT7 they've gone too far. Literally and figuratively.
I agree with a lot of the original post, Trial Mountain is no longer fun to drive around as it was in the past because it is now;
- Too wide
- Too flat (rises have been lowered)
- Last corner is a joke, and one of the worst corners of every track in GT7
- Front straight and back straight are too long now
Etc. Deep Forest is a bit of the same, front straight too long, seems like the climb up the hill at the back of the track is not as steep, and i'm not too fond of the hairpin at the second last corner.
My suggestion, since it's too late to change what we've got, is for PD's track designers to snip out the added in longer straights on both tracks, put corners back the way they should be on both, increase the rises again, narrow down Trial Mountain a bit and then throw them into the game with a new title (something like Trial Mountain (Classic), Deep Forest (Classic)) and, if need be, don't allow them for use in Sport mode. Aka, put the pits back to the way they were.
But the chances of that happening are as good as me winning millions in Lotto, so...
When I first heard Trial Mountain and Deep Forest was coming to the game, I was happy to know that I was gonna have another track besides the Nordschleife to test handling, and tune vehicles. I started to question this after I saw actual gameplay of the tracks. After couple months in the game, its easy to say the tracks have had so much of their complexity taken out, its taken away their purpose. They drive like every other track now, and the fastest laps are always going to be set by cars with higher power, and the ones who have a slipstream.
The only way to fix this is for PD to add a 'Trial Mountain Legacy Version' and 'Deep Forest Legacy Version' to the game. Versions of the tracks that stay as faithful to the old games as possible.
- 2,495
- S.C.
- MMXtreme
I've tried to like the new Deep Forest, but it's ruined. Lost all of it's personality, as far as the environment, and the revised layout destroyed the flow, the old version had through the whole track.
I don't mind the Trial Mountain revision too much, but that last section is odd.
I don't mind the Trial Mountain revision too much, but that last section is odd.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,260
- United States
Not a fan of the Trial Mountain changes, but Deep Forrest is great. I just hope that if/when we get Grand Valley they don't screw it up.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
I like the lowered kerbs, but hate that a lot of trees have been removed. I'm playing on PS4 Pro though so not sure if the trees are intact in PS5 like how it was in GTS.
As for changes to other GTS fictional tracks, I dislike the new pitwalls at Maggiore and Alsace. It makes those sections of the track feel very claustrophobic. And in the case of Maggiore before the esses, it removed the red patch on the right that I use as braking point
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LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
Yet another person who doesn't read the OP.
3. Old TM straight/pitlane is too short for 20+ car races.
- They could scale the whole track larger (like new High Speed Ring) so it could fit on the main straight without changing the basic layout.
- Alternatively, they could be more creative in designing the pit shape (e.g. Eiger Nordwand has one that doubles back on itself).
- Ultimately though, I don't think this is an issue because the current pitstops in GTS always have your car teleporting straight to a pitbox after you entered. It makes no difference whether you have your own spot or not. We've raced at Tsukuba, Willow Springs and Goodwood which has short pitlanes (even Tokyo South with its weird parking garage pit - and it only has a spot for ONE car!).
- 1,017
- London/Malaysia/Tunisia
- Waizon/v8stage1/
On the 9th page of a discussion, this is quite a strange assumption to make. There were a few ideas and suggestions on which I was indirectly commenting on.
It is an interesting point you make about pit stops though. The game can still feel reasonable with a pit lane that is two short.
MonoTonouS
(Banned)
- 656
- United States
Deep forest is great
Trail mountain is too long , They need to reduce the straight by 20% . It makes the track a power track and ruins it.
Highspeed ring is also great , I never liked the GT4 or 5-6 version .
Trail mountain is too long , They need to reduce the straight by 20% . It makes the track a power track and ruins it.
Highspeed ring is also great , I never liked the GT4 or 5-6 version .
- 1,173
- Australia
I don't see the problem with *Trial Mountain needing a shorter straight. I think what they've done is modernise it, and it's weird to adjust to, but wouldn't go far to say it's too much of power track now. It's a proper racetrack now and what they've done is exactly what they thought it needed!
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- 670
- London
- potatoe506
9 pages in but I assume the thread has already gone over how some of these changes facilitate more overtaking opportunities in multiplayer?
Even with the changes Deep Forest still only has a couple of genuine spots where you can reliably initiate overtakes (the two hairpins).
Saying that I'm not sure why Trial Mountain had to be extended by as much, if the straights were too short before to facilitate overtaking then they're definitely too long now. Maybe it genuinely is necessary to have them be that long for Gr.1 races, I haven't tried out that combo though. I'm not a massive fan of the changes made to the final section but I guess you can be generous and say that it's a good spot for overtakes now to have some neck and neck drama on the finish line.
I will say I think both tracks look really nice in my opinion, although I think the time of day lighting is a bit naff on Deep Forest, depending where you are in the track it's quite distracting to see the lighting and shadows in the trees jump around as the time changes, it's really easy to notice this in the final championship in career mode for example. With that said, I do think they both look fantastic at dawn/dusk, love how warm the lighting is in the tunnels.
Even with the changes Deep Forest still only has a couple of genuine spots where you can reliably initiate overtakes (the two hairpins).
Saying that I'm not sure why Trial Mountain had to be extended by as much, if the straights were too short before to facilitate overtaking then they're definitely too long now. Maybe it genuinely is necessary to have them be that long for Gr.1 races, I haven't tried out that combo though. I'm not a massive fan of the changes made to the final section but I guess you can be generous and say that it's a good spot for overtakes now to have some neck and neck drama on the finish line.
I will say I think both tracks look really nice in my opinion, although I think the time of day lighting is a bit naff on Deep Forest, depending where you are in the track it's quite distracting to see the lighting and shadows in the trees jump around as the time changes, it's really easy to notice this in the final championship in career mode for example. With that said, I do think they both look fantastic at dawn/dusk, love how warm the lighting is in the tunnels.
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- 1,173
- Australia
I digress, I think most people simply clutch onto the old version of Trial Mountain, which makes the new length of the straight feel wrong. With all the changes already done, Trial Mountain will never feel the same again, regardless of just the straight length. race the more you'll appreciate whatever it is that PD did to it. At the very least having such a long straight is a VERY modern touch.
- 1,325
- Brazil
I liked the TM stroke changes. However, I am annoyed by the lack of a run-off zone, with rocks, trees, next to it. It makes me uncomfortable and gives me an arcade game feeling. I don't understand why they didn't give a modern look for Trial Mountain like Deep Forest and Dragon Trail.
MonoTonouS
(Banned)
- 656
- United States
I love the turn and elevation changes done to Trial Mountain, The straight DOES make it a power track in everything under Gr.3 I vividly remember racing LMP's on trail mountain in GT 5/6 just for fun and the straight was long enough. I also don't hatet he last turn, It's much betetr suited for racing than the old one where you could cheeze it.
Also the Track is WAY to wide now on the straights , the AI doesnt seem to even awknowledge they can use half of the track .
Hear me out, fixing Trial mountain is easy for slower cars On the back straight, give it chicane on the first half of the tunnel that starts on the right lane, turns to the left lane and returns to the right lane before opening up on the downhill portion. This would add a high speed chicane for slower cars that would make it so faster straight line car's don't blow the other car's out of teh water. Iwas doing custom races and Trail mountain clearly favored higher orsepower car's . Any gains Faster AI made through the turns was wiped on the strights .
Also the Track is WAY to wide now on the straights , the AI doesnt seem to even awknowledge they can use half of the track .
Hear me out, fixing Trial mountain is easy for slower cars On the back straight, give it chicane on the first half of the tunnel that starts on the right lane, turns to the left lane and returns to the right lane before opening up on the downhill portion. This would add a high speed chicane for slower cars that would make it so faster straight line car's don't blow the other car's out of teh water. Iwas doing custom races and Trail mountain clearly favored higher orsepower car's . Any gains Faster AI made through the turns was wiped on the strights .
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LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
So several months in and having raced the new TM & DF extensively offline and online, I can say that most of the visual changes are palatable now. But I still immensely dislike the widening and new corners (90 degree before backstraight + hairpin in DF and final chicane in TM).
The lack of trees and changes in the trackside scenery doesn't bother me as much when driving. Probably because I'm mostly focused on the road when driving than looking at scenery.
With TM, the section before first tunnel is great, just as I remembered it. The first tunnel is too dark though. The section between first & second tunnels are a bit awkward because of the widening, it doesn't "flow" as nicely from one corner to another like older games. The backstraight is just right for Gr.3/4 slipstreaming, but too long for road cars <300 HP (my favourite kind). The whole downhill section is perfect and still my favourite bit of the track, old and new. The final chicane though, is still 🤬 as expected no matter how many times I drive it. Totally ruins the ending of the lap. You have to drive the first part very awkwardly so you don't sacrifice the second part, and even then I'm never quite sure when is the right timing to give it full beans because of the game's rear traction issues. Sure it does promote overtaking (read: divebombing), but then the overtaker usually will compromise their exit so much, you can get them back on the front straight anyway. It promotes the amount of overtakes, but not actual net position changes. My preferred overtaking spot is still the hairpin at the back. People always get that tricky off camber left hander before the backstraight wrong when under pressure, which compromises their speed on the straight.
Deep Forest, similar feelings. The first half of the lap is great, just as I remembered it. Then the 90 degree left turn before the backstraight is the first problem. I'm never quite sure how much of the exit runoff to take to avoid a penalty. I've seen people get all 4 tyres into the green bit and get away with it. But when I try it, I got a penalty. Problem is if you're too conservative you lose exit speed and carry that all the way down the straight. Then comes the final hairpin. Same problem with TM chicane, it is followed by another long straight so any overtaker here, will just get overtaken back. Not to mention with the wheel rub issue in GT7, some cars struggle to even get around this corner. Ugh. I do like the roller coaster entry in reverse, but not enough to prefer it over the old layout.
Anyway, I heard from Nenkaai that the next fictional track is gonna be quite "Grand". I'm not holding high hopes they will leave the layout untouched, but we'll see.
The lack of trees and changes in the trackside scenery doesn't bother me as much when driving. Probably because I'm mostly focused on the road when driving than looking at scenery.
With TM, the section before first tunnel is great, just as I remembered it. The first tunnel is too dark though. The section between first & second tunnels are a bit awkward because of the widening, it doesn't "flow" as nicely from one corner to another like older games. The backstraight is just right for Gr.3/4 slipstreaming, but too long for road cars <300 HP (my favourite kind). The whole downhill section is perfect and still my favourite bit of the track, old and new. The final chicane though, is still 🤬 as expected no matter how many times I drive it. Totally ruins the ending of the lap. You have to drive the first part very awkwardly so you don't sacrifice the second part, and even then I'm never quite sure when is the right timing to give it full beans because of the game's rear traction issues. Sure it does promote overtaking (read: divebombing), but then the overtaker usually will compromise their exit so much, you can get them back on the front straight anyway. It promotes the amount of overtakes, but not actual net position changes. My preferred overtaking spot is still the hairpin at the back. People always get that tricky off camber left hander before the backstraight wrong when under pressure, which compromises their speed on the straight.
Deep Forest, similar feelings. The first half of the lap is great, just as I remembered it. Then the 90 degree left turn before the backstraight is the first problem. I'm never quite sure how much of the exit runoff to take to avoid a penalty. I've seen people get all 4 tyres into the green bit and get away with it. But when I try it, I got a penalty. Problem is if you're too conservative you lose exit speed and carry that all the way down the straight. Then comes the final hairpin. Same problem with TM chicane, it is followed by another long straight so any overtaker here, will just get overtaken back. Not to mention with the wheel rub issue in GT7, some cars struggle to even get around this corner. Ugh. I do like the roller coaster entry in reverse, but not enough to prefer it over the old layout.
Anyway, I heard from Nenkaai that the next fictional track is gonna be quite "Grand". I'm not holding high hopes they will leave the layout untouched, but we'll see.
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LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
Quick thoughts on the new Grand Valley. I love the new corners and the location, but they should've called it something else. Apart from looking at the track map, none of it feels like Grand Valley of old. At least with Trial Mt and Deep Forest 80% of the track still drives and feels like the old versions.
IMO, PD should just make a proper new track based on the California Highway 1, like PCARS. And bring back Grand Valley modernised but still with the same feel like TM/DF.
Lastly, this could just be me playing on PS4 Pro with reduced details, but I hate how barren the coastal area looks. It's just brown desert. I've driven Highway 1 IRL and in several games (PCARS, GRID) and what comes to mind are lush trees on one side and ocean on the other. Maybe there are more trees on the PS5 version, I haven't had the chance to check gameplay vids.
IMO, PD should just make a proper new track based on the California Highway 1, like PCARS. And bring back Grand Valley modernised but still with the same feel like TM/DF.
Lastly, this could just be me playing on PS4 Pro with reduced details, but I hate how barren the coastal area looks. It's just brown desert. I've driven Highway 1 IRL and in several games (PCARS, GRID) and what comes to mind are lush trees on one side and ocean on the other. Maybe there are more trees on the PS5 version, I haven't had the chance to check gameplay vids.
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- 824
- United States
Good for enjoying the game, bad for nostalgia.
