[PETITION] Make Gran Turismo 7 available to play offline.

MaxAttack

TPC's Resident Mad Bloke
Premium
1,945
United Kingdom
Isle of Wight, UK
imagine if that was the case for any other medium like literature or film
An interesting point.

Two things; in the case of quite a lot of literature and films, there does come a point where they reach no further audience, books go out of print, and films stop being shown or put on streaming services, if those marketing them feel they've run their course as a moneymaker.

Secondly, the difference in the medium plays a role. Books have been a pretty static technology for a good few centuries now. Film technology's rapid evolution and its effect on how rapidly film ages compared to say, paintings, makes a good demonstration of my point here, in that the speed with which everything about cinema has changed absolutely eclipsed any medium of art that went before it, and video games have eclipsed that speed many times over already.

With that in mind there's a case to be made for shedding nostalgia, past a fuzzy point in gaming history, in the name of keeping up with the rapid curve of technology, so it can be best exploited for the best possible game. This is all pretty wildly beside the point at hand, which is that no Sony or PD employee could possibly be in any way motivated to waste the three seconds of their day that it would take to laugh at this petition.
 
10,229
Australia
Central Coast, NSW
cyan-yoshi5
EelX 5
I think longevity has been a big issue with GT since GT5 being so online dependent after Spec 2.0. I haven't had any desire to play GT5 or GT6 since the servers shut down. I've however still had time to play GT3, GT4 and even GT5: Prologue.

Of course people can easily say it's a "non-issue" as people will just move on to the next and not touch older GTs but I think this mentality and accepting these new ways of gaming from PS and Xbox game developers how I'm slowly becoming a Retro gamer collecting and playing Gamecube Games overtime now and said before, been playing older GTs as newer games just lack any long term satisfaction. There is definitely a market for people wanting games to have everlasting value and not age like Milk. Why do you think GT7 was hyped in the first place for referencing GT1 to GT4? I doubt referencing GT6 or GT Sport would garner similar results.
 
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FPV MIC

Premium
3,213
Australia
Australia
GT-MIC
Do you see any videos on how to insert hybrid vehicles in GT Sport, that are as numerous as they were for GT5 and 6? Considering the fact that the PS4's internal security is leaps and bounds better then the PS3's (after Sony boasted that it was 'unhackable' and then had it promptly blown wide open by people out of practical spite) it has stopped most people from trying it. Not only that, but it's a simple thing that considering what GT Sport is at the end of the day (that is, a competition focused sim racer) that actual hacking and cheating is more often then not discouraged to begin with. Racing is inherently an act that has a very clear divide between those who are good, and those who are not. More often then not, that divide comes down to racecraft, and tuning set ups. Also, inherently, there is much more at stake, especially for FIA races (even though 99% of the general populace will never even sniff the FIA world tour events) and as such, people are probably going to be playing fair if there is no easy way to cheat. This isn't like Warzone, where Activision (in my mind, deliberately) ignored adding an anti-cheat system to boost player numbers, and then acted surprised that people were jumping into sponsored tournaments and using hacks, leaving these organizations with egg on their face, and subsequently making Activision's game look like the lawless wasteland it was, and indeed still is. Warzone, COD in general, is also a low-ceiling skill game, and with the game desiring people play with all users, also means that console players have to deal with the issue of hackers that they never had to deal with before playing in their own walled off garden.

GT doesn't have that problem considering it's only present on Playstation, and has a much higher skill ceiling. So really...
That's a lot of meaningless drivel to say ''No I don't have a source, I just made it up''. Please show me proof to this statement ''It's been proven that there hasn't been a desire to hack save files in order to add hybrids into daily/FIA races in Sport''

...And while you're at it, how about backing up your statement in the other thread too.

Is a lie, or at least partially one, considering that the entire internal security of the PS4 prevents people from easily breaking into the system security and subsequently making hybrids or hacking vehicles, and then letting them loose in online lobbies. Maybe online saves helped it, but I certainly don't think so,
So it's not a lie. Read it again. I said we ''What we have seen is that since the advent of online saving for GT Sport there's been no hybrids and hacked cars in online racing in GT Sport.''. Nowhere did I claim anything other than the fact we haven't seen any online in GT Sport... and just because you don't think it helped doesn't mean it didn't help ;).

Edit: You mentioning yourself that with offline saves both GT 5&6 had hybrids backs up my point. GT Sport with online saves doesn't have online hybrids... just as I said.

There's many things out there, the thing is none of what's done appears in-game online!

38 car grid:

Hybrid:

and it certainly doesn't take away from the very real concerns of people losing progress in their games if the server's saved data does not match up with that of what has been done online, and the concerns had with regards to potentially having large chunks of the game more or less inaccessible because Polyphony thought it be a good idea to make 85% of the game be inaccessible when there's a server outage, or if they reach end of life support and turn off the servers. Once more, it should be reminded that Polyphony's own history with regards to turning off the servers for their games is well known in this forum, and more often then not ends only months after the next game has been released. A sizeable chunk of online focused, Battlefield among them, keep up support for years, and in some cases, are still supported by the publisher by bearing the load of servers, as was shown by EA adding tons of new official servers after BF4 had a surge of popularity in the wake of 2042's announcement.

Yet even after bolting on a single player portion, GT Sport is in real risk of being a virtual paperweight once GT7 is released, considering how much of it is online based when it doesn't need to be. GT7 is at risk too considering that it follows in GTS' footsteps. Take into account Polyphony's recent history with shutting down the servers of their games, and why wouldn't people be worried? Why wouldn't people be critical?
None of this is relevant to my discussion with you. It's just your same old, same old. As I've said, I don't care what people do offline as long as it doesn't have any effect on online, and this below...
... And as far as what happens down the track with GT Sport and GT7 saves when the servers shut down, I'll just wait and see what happens with GT Sport before throwing my toys out the pram like some others here.
 
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2,706
Philippines
Philippines
GBalao888
GBalao888
If that's the case, splitting Sport mode into a separate entity as a standalone will have to make sense and the only viable option rather than implementing it in the core game. With this, there will be quite some benefits to come, such as:

1. With Sport mode being completely optional from there, this way it will be possible to play GT7 like a real Gran Turismo game again, anytime and offline. Based on the quoted Tweet, it's textbook that the FIA certification of Sport mode requires the game to have always-online DRM. Splitting Sport mode into its own standalone game will probably help solve that problem, and can be very convenient for those who don't have good internet, or those who can't or don't want to play competitively online.

2. It will probably take off a few gigabytes from the total game file size, allowing for freer space. GT Sport on PS4 alone is more than 110GB in its most up-to-date form (no changes whatsoever on PS5). What more with GT7, potentially at 150GB? (Assuming this is the size of the game in its PS4 version, the PS5 version could become an absolute monster of a game in terms of file size.)

Let's not turn the file size of GT7 into that of a COD game, folks. It's inevitable though that the size of the game gets even larger when they add in things like new cars, tracks, features and such.

There will be a few drawbacks, though, such as:

1. Having to download two separate games at once. In this theory, GT7 will be split into the core game and the Sport mode standalone game. Polyphony should compensate by making the standalone Sport mode game free to all existing GT7 users. At least those who want to play competitively through e-sports can download it with its own dedicated servers.

2. Extra memory is required to have both. Splitting Sport Mode into its own standalone game would come at a cost. Should GT7's "core game" be over 150GB in size, downloading Sport Mode would almost give GT7 an almost COD: Warzone file size (probably one of the factors why COD is getting backlash, especially for those with limited hard drive space).

3. PS Plus is still required to play online, such as online lobbies in the "core game" and in the standalone Sport Mode game. Then again, this needs no further explanation.
 
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Lain

Premium
6,941
United States
Pasadena, TX
Yaywalter
Unfortunately petitions are unlikely to do anything, but it takes little effort to sign so I went ahead and added my name, as well as shared a link to the petition over on Resetera.

No one cared on GT Sport. I suspect what will happen is that GT7 will be such a hit that no one will care there either.
I dunno... I think in GT Sport's case, people not caring (or at least not caring enough to raise a big fuss about it) was due to the fact that it was known to be intended as an online multiplayer/esports-oriented spinoff. GT7 being the next mainline entry, I think people might care a bit more about its single-player content being accessible offline.
 

MikeV27

Premium
2,875
Canada
Kirkland Lake, Ontario.
MikeV27
What is the minimum internet speed required for saving progress? It shows that my GTS game progress data is 39 mb, can't see it getting much larger than that with GT7.
 
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Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
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73,663
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
I have no idea who that chap is (which isn't to say he's irrelevant or nobody, simply that I've not encountered him before), but there's absolutely no way the FIA is, at any level, sufficiently informed about gaming to demand an online requirement across most game modes to prevent save file manipulation.

If the story is that Sony/PD presented a selection of anti-cheat measures to the FIA and the FIA chose that one (on the basis of it being the least complex and granular, while also the most effective), sure, but a version of events where the FIA is the driving force behind it and poor old Sony had to accede just doesn't seem at all plausible.
 
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49
Sweden
Sweden
It's not as easy or simple as "everyone can already do it"

For starters not everyone has decent internet especially here in Australia where a lot us have notoriously bad internet. My internet has been rather terrible since we got back into lockdown and everyone at home is using it. For my Switch I have to keep initially connecting it right next to the router. I can't do that with a PS5 or PS4. I have mates who just moved into new places for work and they don't even have internet boxes.

As for phone hotspots, Phones take data and I don't want to use it on a video game just to save. I don't go out and buy unlimited data, just enough to get me by.

If the internet goes off, I still need something to pass the time until I get a new one or it comes back and having GT7 not be available in single player because I can't save will be a huge annoyance.

I can only see the logical reasoning being to prevent piracy/cheating but even then there are solutions around it without annoying potential customers
I'm on your side.On-line isn't the best for the gt series.I have gt6 (and i had all gt's) and it was sad and bad when the servers went down.I just had a mobile cashcard 30gb's/mounth.So i didn't used the mobile internet more than i had to.But now i have a line and even now i only use it when i need to.Off-line gaming is good for the likes of us and to save our game.I don't have ps4 yet but might come a cross one.
 
279
Taiwan
Taiwan
Well.. I suggest that you can wait until GT7 is released before you start worrying about the "problems" that might be caused by GTS's suspension of online services one day in the future.

I mean, don't worry. :)
 
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680
United States
Farbanti, Erusea
It amazes me that somehow, even though it is effectively always online as well, Forza Horizon 4 can be played offline (and very easily, in fact) and will be more or less fine for those who buy into it late and start playing when the game is delisted or the servers are turned off, yet GT7, when it's all said and done, will probably be a shell of its former self when the servers are offline for no good reason other then spite. And considering GT Sport is fast approaching end of life, and with Polyphony's prior history for shutting down servers in a flash, relative to other devs...we're gonna see the future of GT7 in Sport.


I know that 99% of gaming sites don't care about racing games other then in edge cases (if they did, maybe Ian Bell's extra-curricular activities would be more well known and more ridiculed then they already are in this small community) but if they would be kind, can they make anything news wise about GT Sport's servers being turned off making a game with single player elements added in an absolute paperweight of a game?


This is what concerns you, and not having the ability to even save games offline, instead being off-loaded to a server which will force you to restart if the save data between offline and online aren't on an even level?
I don't like it, but it's where the industry is headed.
 
3,951
Canada
Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
I don't like it, but it's where the industry is headed.

Got proof of that? And moreover, is the industry really going the way of kneecapping a game with online only saves to the point of locking you out of any mode other then one? Even the Hitman trilogy isn't as strict with regards to this, and it's probably the most egregious use of online saves I can think of.

This seems to be, once again, people trying to justify and tie themselves in knots to defend Polyphony making a very obvious **** up, and not pushing back against it as a result.
 

FPV MIC

Premium
3,213
Australia
Australia
GT-MIC
Got proof of that? And moreover, is the industry really going the way of kneecapping a game with online only saves to the point of locking you out of any mode other then one? Even the Hitman trilogy isn't as strict with regards to this, and it's probably the most egregious use of online saves I can think of.

This seems to be, once again, people trying to justify and tie themselves in knots to defend Polyphony making a very obvious **** up, and not pushing back against it as a result.
Ever tried The Crew 2? You can't even start playing the game without an internet connection... at all!

I think The Crew was also like this but it's been a long time since I fired it up so I'm not sure if it's still the case.
 
3,951
Canada
Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
Ever tried The Crew 2? You can't even start playing the game without an internet connection... at all!

I think The Crew was also like this but it's been a long time since I fired it up so I'm not sure if it's still the case.

You do realize that there is a distinct difference between a game that was designed, marketed, and talked about as an always online experience (for however good that is as a concept, is not the point) and the player base understanding that, and a game who's marketing campaign, up to this point, is focused on its single player component (in fact, the lion's share of content in both trailers has been single player and not focused on Sport Mode) while also double talking behind their backs saying that said single player content will be unavailable if the servers are taken down in any way, and leaving your saves utterly useless in that case?

This is not hard to understand. At all. How anyone can reasonably defend it, especially considering Polyphony's history in rapidly sunsetting their previous titles, is beyond me. To those that say it is a growing industry trend are simply running cover when that isn't the case in 95% of games made in recent times.
 
38,450
Australia
The Bronx
I’ll say I’m glad AC/ACC/PC2 allow me to save as is. However, Kaz gave his reason why it is the way it is for GTS and GT7. I guess this is the way the franchise will be, until we hear otherwise.
 

FPV MIC

Premium
3,213
Australia
Australia
GT-MIC
You do realize that there is a distinct difference between a game that was designed, marketed, and talked about as an always online experience (for however good that is as a concept, is not the point) and the player base understanding that, and a game who's marketing campaign, up to this point, is focused on its single player component (in fact, the lion's share of content in both trailers has been single player and not focused on Sport Mode) while also double talking behind their backs saying that said single player content will be unavailable if the servers are taken down in any way, and leaving your saves utterly useless in that case?

This is not hard to understand. At all. How anyone can reasonably defend it, especially considering Polyphony's history in rapidly sunsetting their previous titles, is beyond me. To those that say it is a growing industry trend are simply running cover when that isn't the case in 95% of games made in recent times.
That's a lot of waffle over nothing.

All I was mentioning was in regards to your comment about the Hitman Trilogy. I asked if you played The Crew 2 as it's ''online connection required'' status is far, far worse than any game I've seen. Next time I'll snip it rather than highlighting it.

I'm not sure how displaying ''online connection required'' on one game case is any different to displaying it on another game case either. Both were marketed as ''online connection required''.
 
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49
Sweden
Sweden
If that's the case, splitting Sport mode into a separate entity as a standalone will have to make sense and the only viable option rather than implementing it in the core game. With this, there will be quite some benefits to come, such as:

1. With Sport mode being completely optional from there, this way it will be possible to play GT7 like a real Gran Turismo game again, anytime and offline. Based on the quoted Tweet, it's textbook that the FIA certification of Sport mode requires the game to have always-online DRM. Splitting Sport mode into its own standalone game will probably help solve that problem, and can be very convenient for those who don't have good internet, or those who can't or don't want to play competitively online.

2. It will probably take off a few gigabytes from the total game file size, allowing for freer space. GT Sport on PS4 alone is more than 110GB in its most up-to-date form (no changes whatsoever on PS5). What more with GT7, potentially at 150GB? (Assuming this is the size of the game in its PS4 version, the PS5 version could become an absolute monster of a game in terms of file size.)

Let's not turn the file size of GT7 into that of a COD game, folks. It's inevitable though that the size of the game gets even larger when they add in things like new cars, tracks, features and such.

There will be a few drawbacks, though, such as:

1. Having to download two separate games at once. In this theory, GT7 will be split into the core game and the Sport mode standalone game. Polyphony should compensate by making the standalone Sport mode game free to all existing GT7 users. At least those who want to play competitively through e-sports can download it with its own dedicated servers.

2. Extra memory is required to have both. Splitting Sport Mode into its own standalone game would come at a cost. Should GT7's "core game" be over 150GB in size, downloading Sport Mode would almost give GT7 an almost COD: Warzone file size (probably one of the factors why COD is getting backlash, especially for those with limited hard drive space).

3. PS Plus is still required to play online, such as online lobbies in the "core game" and in the standalone Sport Mode game. Then again, this needs no further explanation.
I would like the gt7 to be a little gt5-6 in terms of online.Just for the fun and get more credits (money) and a car.But not all the time,just when people feel's for it.I'm not an online gamer and can't be the only one here..
 
49
Sweden
Sweden
Based on your post, I believe you from Sweden don't have internet problems.
Here in Brazil we have many problems. As I said before, Igor's connection fell right in the Olympic Final...

And we have another inconvenience with this obligation: How am I going to do the 24 hours of Le Mans with my friends in the country house where there is no internet signal? ;)
We have internet problems here to.Not everyone has or can pay for a fast line.In the countryside there are many who dosen't have a line.But just an 3-4g modemrouter.I had it before and no fiber in the apartment i now rent.But we did get it long after the big city's had it.About 10-20 years ago.I got my line for just a few months ago.So on-line saves is not optimal for everybody.I don't race on-line and if i do it's just for fun like i did with gt5-6.
 
18
United States
United States
After recently discovering that Gran Turismo 7 will have an always online requirement, I decided to take it upon myself to be the voice of fans who are just as disappointed in the hopes of this petition reaching out to Sony and Polyphony Digital to reconsider the always-online aspect of the game.
Well you just helped me decide that I won't be buying GT7. I missed this detail so far in my browsing about the new version. This isn't a persistent world mmorpg. This looks like a way to force people in to buying the + service who don't have it yet. I've put up with all the hassle on GTS but if it's even worse on 7 I'll be moving over to a pc sim permanently.
 
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18
United States
United States
But there were hackers in GT6. Time Trials were compromised many, many times with people running wider than normal tyres to gain a grip advantage. (If I remember correctly someone called Bruno Blak was one of the worst offenders)
OMG I laughed my ass off when the CTR lit up and took off in that cloud of smoke, that was not what I expected. Thank you for posting that, I needed a laugh tonight.
 
18
United States
United States
PD and Sony know full well that even if a lot of people are outraged or mildly annoyed by this they will buy the game anyw
Not me sir. My plan is to scroll up to the top of gtplanet, and search for ppl racing in a pc based sim. BAM problem solved with a mouse click, Sony can bite my shiny metal arse.
 
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263
Indonesia
Bikini Bottom
FueledByMisery
SomeRandomAce
I think the only way to end the always-online save controversy was for PD to roll out the post-launch roadmap of GT7 at day one or even better, before its launch, that not only details about possible new contents and feature updates but also how the game will be supported once its online service ends
 
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eran0004

Premium
9,723
Sweden
Sweden
eran0004
Well you just helped me decide that I won't be buying GT7. I missed this detail so far in my browsing about the new version. This isn't a persistent world mmorpg. This looks like a way to force people in to buying the + service who don't have it yet. I've put up with all the hassle on GTS but if it's even worse on 7 I'll be moving over to a pc sim permanently.
I don’t think + will be required to save though, you just need to be connected to the internet.
 

syntex123

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syntex123
Syntex260Z
Sorry to butt in without having read more than the last post. And it may have been brought up.

the reason why so many games are online only is because of hacking. Is that so hard to understand?
 
1,463
United States
Washington
quakebass
This looks like a way to force people in to buying the + service who don't have it yet. I've put up with all the hassle on GTS but if it's even worse on 7 I'll be moving over to a pc sim permanently.

PS+ is only required for multiplayer, all other online functionality is intact without a subscription.
 

syntex123

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The reason why that's silly for a single player game is that even if the game is hacked it hurts no one except the player doing the hacking. It's a "problem" that doesn't need a solution. Is that so hard to understand?
That totally depends on the hybrids, if they’re classified by the shell or the ‘engine’. A Fiat 500 as a Bugatti Veyron with the specs of a Fiat 500 would be a problem. Not silly at all.