Polyphony Digital Cup useful A-spec information!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 4' started by Smallhorses, May 9, 2006.

  1. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    7,260
    So a search for [SEARCH]Polyphony Digital Cup[/SEARCH] brings only a handful of thread titles related to GT4, mostly complaining about the bizarre lack of competition or the runaway car that can't be caught, and the difficulty in trying to grab some high A-spec point races whilst still having a shot at winning! :(

    I've been desperately trying to find something exciting to race here, in stock form for some good points, and it's been a tremendous struggle, due to the varied AI field. However, during this research time, I've compiled a lot of information which hopefully will prove useful to you all. (Maybe someone more mathematically minded could use the points info to predict a good car and lineup combination too!)

    In most series in GT4, the 1st lineup is the same regardless of the car you enter in, but dependant on several factors the 2nd lineup may not be the same if you enter in a different car. This makes fishing for high-points tricky. :(
    Because of the variety of AI entrants for the PD Cup however, I wanted to test if the lineups varied depending on the cars you enter........
    The good news in short is no! :D

    I have auditioned the first 50 :eek: lineups for this series, in no less than 5 different cars, ranging from ~118HP to 469HP and with different drivetrains.
    (That's 250 entries of the 1st race! :ouch: )
    The AI lineups are the same every time, following a console reset!
    So, here are the first 50 lineups for you to choose from! :bowdown:

    Code:
    [B]Cycle #	Cars on grid (in order)[/B]
    1	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    1	Peugeot 206cc '01
    1	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    1	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    1	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    
    2	Audi S3 '02
    2	Peugeot 206cc '01
    2	Honda S2000 '01
    2	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    2	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    
    3	Audi S3 '02
    3	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    3	VW Lupo 1.4 '02
    3	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    3	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    
    4	Honda Fit W '01
    4	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    4	Mini One '02
    4	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    4	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    
    5	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    5	VW Lupo 1.4 '02
    5	Honda S2000 '01
    5	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    5	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    
    6	BMW M3 '04
    6	Honda Fit W '01
    6	Honda CR-X SiR '90
    6	Audi S3 '02
    6	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    
    7	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    7	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    7	Audi S3 '02
    7	Honda S2000 '01
    7	Honda Fit W '01
    
    8	Honda Fit W '01
    8	Honda CR-X SiR '90
    8	Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V '98
    8	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    8	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    
    9	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    9	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    9	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    9	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    9	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    
    10	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    10	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    10	Mini One '02
    10	Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V '98
    10	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    	
    11	Ford GT '05
    11	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    11	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    11	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    11	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    
    12	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    12	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    12	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    12	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    12	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    
    13	Mini One '02
    13	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    13	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    13	Peugeot 206cc '01
    13	Honda S2000 '01
    
    14	Ford GT '05
    14	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    14	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    14	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    14	Honda Fit W '01
    
    15	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    15	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    15	Ford GT '05
    15	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    15	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    
    16	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    16	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    16	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    16	Honda Fit W '01
    16	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    
    17	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    17	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    17	Honda Fit W '01
    17	Ford GT '05
    17	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    
    18	Peugeot 206cc '01
    18	Honda S2000 '01
    18	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    18	Audi S3 '02
    18	Honda Fit W '01
    
    19	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    19	VW Lupo 1.4 '02
    19	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    19	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    19	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    
    20	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    20	Audi S3 '02
    20	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    20	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    20	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    
    21	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    21	Audi S3 '02
    21	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    21	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    21	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    
    22	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    22	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    22	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    22	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    22	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    
    23	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    23	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    23	Mini One '02
    23	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    23	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    
    24	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    24	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    24	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    24	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    24	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    
    25	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    25	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    25	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    25	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    25	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    
    26	Peugeot 206cc '01
    26	Honda CR-X SiR '90
    26	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    26	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    26	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    
    27	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    27	Ford GT '05
    27	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    27	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    27	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    
    28	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    28	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    28	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    28	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    28	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    
    29	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    29	Honda S2000 '01
    29	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    29	Honda CR-X SiR '90
    29	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    
    30	Mini One '02
    30	Peugeot 206cc '01
    30	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    30	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    30	Honda S2000 '01
    
    31	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    31	Honda S2000 '01
    31	Peugeot 206cc '01
    31	Mini One '02
    31	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    
    32	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    32	Honda Fit W '01
    32	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    32	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    32	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    
    33	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    33	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    33	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    33	Honda Fit W '01
    33	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    
    34	Mini One '02
    34	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    34	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    34	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    34	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    
    35	Honda S2000 '01
    35	Peugeot 206cc '01
    35	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    35	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    35	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    
    36	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    36	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    36	Audi S3 '02
    36	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    36	Peugeot 206cc '01
    
    37	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    37	Peugeot 206cc '01
    37	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    37	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    37	Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V '98
    
    38	Honda CR-X SiR '90
    38	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    38	Honda S2000 '01
    38	Peugeot 206cc '01
    38	Mini One '02
    
    39	Mini One '02
    39	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    39	Honda S2000 '01
    39	Audi S3 '02
    39	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    
    40	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    40	Mini One '02
    40	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    40	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    40	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    	
    41	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    41	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    41	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    41	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    41	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    
    42	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    42	Peugeot 206cc '01
    42	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    42	VW Lupo 1.4 '02
    42	Audi S3 '02
    
    43	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    43	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    43	Honda S2000 '01
    43	Honda CR-X SiR '90
    43	Audi S3 '02
    
    44	Mini One '02
    44	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    44	Ford GT '05
    44	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    44	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    
    45	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    45	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    45	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    45	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    45	Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V '98
    
    46	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    46	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    46	Audi S3 '02
    46	Mini One '02
    46	Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V '98
    
    47	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    47	Ford GT '05
    47	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    47	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    47	BMW M3 '04
    
    48	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    48	Mini One '02
    48	VW Lupo 1.4 '02
    48	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    48	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    
    49	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    49	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    49	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    49	Honda Fit W '01
    49	Mini One '02
    
    50	BMW M3 '04
    50	Ford GT '05
    50	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    50	Peugeot 206cc '01
    50	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    
    So now we know what to expect in each lineup. Great, but how do we know if we can be competetive?
    e.g. I know I can beat the Mini One in the race, but the Ford GT leaves me for dead!
    The problem here is that to beat the GT, you need something with a ton of HP, but using something like that with a couple of sub-100HP cars in the race too is going to guarantee you a single-digit points tally! (If not just a single point! :p)
    How can we figure out what to be competive against, and which lineup has the right combination of cars? :confused:
    Well, the AI fields with their HP disparity, tend to disperse fairly quickly, and so most cars get a lap in clear air on only their second lap. Since Motegi is the first race, I entered enough races and did enough of the race to enable one of each AI entrant to complete a clean 2nd lap, watched the replays to log each car's time and came up with the following:-

    Code:
    AI HP Laptime	AI Entrant
    550	2'04	Ford GT '05
    492	2'11	Mercedes SL 55 AMG (R230) '02
    353	2'16	Lotus Esprit V8 '02
    339	2'19	BMW M3 '04
    305	2'21	Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive Style '01
    299	2'19	Chevrolet Camaro SS '69
    293	2'17	Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
    273	2'17	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT
    243	2'24	Honda S2000 '01
    222	2'29	Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
    221	2'29	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03
    210	2'30	Audi S3 '02
    190	2'35	Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V '98
    186	2'37	Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer '02
    182	2'31	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    157	2'36	Honda CR-X SiR '90
    134	2'39	Peugeot 206cc '01
    128	2'43	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00
    118	2'38	Mazda MX-5 Miata '89
    116	2'41	Peugeot 106 S16 '03
    109	2'45	Toyota Vitz RS 1.5 '00
    98	2'43	Honda Fit W '01
    98	2'49	VW Lupo 1.4 '02
    89	2'51	Mini One '02
    
    Thanks to jdw for sharing his A-spec points guide with me which I was able to lift all the possible entrants, and their HP values from. All the AI cars run S2 (SM) tyres, with the exception of the NISMO which has S3 (SS) tyres.

    Next I explored the variations of points for various cars and lineups, all cars were as purchased or won, no oil, no modifications, no tyre changes.
    (The HP, drivetrain and my fastest clean 2nd lap of Motegi appear in brackets.)

    A = Points with RUF CTR "Yellow Bird" '87 (469HP RR 2'02)
    B = Points with Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. II '94 (267HP 4WD 2'18)
    C = Points with Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II '93 (119HP FR 2'35)
    D = Points with Nissan 240ZG (HS30) '71 (151HP FR 2'25)
    E = Points with Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR '97 (157HP FF 2'30)


    Code:
    [B]Lineup[/B]  [B][COLOR="Yellow"]A[/COLOR][/B]	[COLOR="Green"][B]B[/B][/COLOR]	[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]C[/COLOR][/B]	[COLOR="Red"][B]D[/B][/COLOR]	[B][COLOR="Blue"]E[/COLOR][/B]
    1	1	9	155	93	107
    2	1	9	157	95	109
    3	1	9	158	97	111
    4	1	10	169	107	121
    5	1	10	180	119	133
    6	1	9	149	87	101
    7	1	15	189	127	141
    8	1	8	143	81	95
    9	1	81	200	193	200
    10	1	7	113	52	66
    11	4	141	200	200	200
    12	1	16	190	129	143
    13	1	8	140	78	92
    14	1	35	200	148	162
    15	3	105	200	200	200
    16	1	34	200	146	160
    17	3	123	200	200	200
    18	1	9	147	85	100
    19	1	38	200	150	164
    20	1	10	180	118	132
    21	1	8	124	63	77
    22	1	48	200	160	174
    23	1	8	130	69	83
    24	1	10	169	107	121
    25	1	10	172	111	125
    26	1	9	152	91	105
    27	4	133	200	200	200
    28	1	9	154	92	106
    29	1	22	196	134	148
    30	1	8	138	76	90
    31	1	8	138	77	91
    32	1	10	183	122	136
    33	1	68	200	180	194
    34	1	18	192	130	144
    35	1	49	200	161	175
    36	1	10	181	120	134
    37	1	10	183	122	136
    38	1	6	95	33	47
    39	1	7	113	51	65
    40	1	5	72	10	24
    41	1	36	200	148	162
    42	1	31	200	143	158
    43	1	8	142	80	94
    44	1	59	200	171	185
    45	1	43	200	155	169
    46	1	9	150	88	102
    47	3	123	200	200	200
    48	1	7	111	49	63
    49	1	6	88	27	41
    50	1	72	200	185	199
    And lastly, I entered a few more cars against the first lineup to see how the points varied.
    (Again drivetrain, HP and my fastest clean 2nd lap at Motegi are in brackets)

    Code:
    [B]Car:-[/B]						[B]Points vs. Lineup#1[/B]
    
    Renault 5 Turbo '80 (MR 160HP 2'28)			75
    
    Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88 (FR 230HP 2'21) 	10
    
    Nissan 240SX (S14) '96 (FR 194HP 2'22)			43
    
    Ford Taurus SHO '98 (FF 212HP 2'34)			60
    
    Toyota Starlet Glanza V '97 (FF 120HP 2'36)		153
    
    Nissan Skyline 2000 GT-R '73 (FR 143HP 2'31)		146
    
    Same as above, with new oil (FR 158HP 2'28)		118
    
    Lotus Esprit Turbo HC '87 (MR 215HP 2'19)		9
    
    Mitsubishi FTO GPX '94 (FF 197HP 2'26)			46
    So that's what I know....there should be enough info there for a good mathematician to figure out some formulae for predicting points with reasonable certainty right? :boggled:
    The points differences between lineups are fairly consistent for the 3 lower powered cars, so you should be able to work out a points value for any car if you enter it into race 1 and get a points value.
    (e.g. difference between lineup 1 and 13 is -15 points with all 3 lower powered cars I tested, so if you decided you could beat lineup 13 in your car, enter it vs. lineup 1, note the points and subtract 15. That's what you'd be getting for lineup 13. ;) This theory doesn't work so well once you get into single digit entries like the RUF & Lancer though. :()
    If anyone knows any good shortcuts to colour-coding the tables here without having to colour-tag each individual value on every line, let me know, or if you want to do it for me, I'd very much appreciate it, as it'd make this easier to digest. :guilty: I'm not very computer literate when it comes to html tags!

    Anyway, hope this will help someone in some way somewhere! :cheers:
    You should now be able to view a lineup without enter/exiting umpteen times, work out what'll be the fastest AI entrant in that field and how many points you can expect to achieve if you win! :D

    *EDIT* I hereby reserve the right to flame anyone mentioning a Dodge Ram in conjunction with this post. :sly:
     
    RikkiGT-R, RVDNuT374, AMG. and 7 others like this.
  2. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,994
    Location:
    United States
    Wow, that's really good information, sh! Thanks for compiling it here.
     
  3. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    7,260
    One more thing, the lineup order remains the same whether you enter the championship or individual races. :tup:
    This is useful, since it's quicker to enter/exit an individual race than to enter/exit the championship.
    You can use the ∆ or  buttons to exit the individual race, but you have to scroll across to the "Abandon Championship" icon to exit the championship.
     
  4. Doggie

    Doggie

    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Finland
    SH do you have an opinion which lineup is the best or the most evenly matched? I haven't tested all the lineups, but so far i've found a competetive race with sileighty and lineup #2.

    Just a suggestion, ignore this if it's too much work, but if you would have the cars second laptime after it, on the lineup table, it would be easier to see in which line up there is a small time difference between car #1 and #5.

    Anyway this is very helpfull as is, so points for you.
     
  5. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    7,260
    Thanks Doggie!

    As far as I can tell, lineups 21 and 45 are the most closely matched, although 21 offers much lower points, but you'll have to take something that'll make 2'19 laps around Motegi to beat lineup 45, which'll lower the points available too.

    What sort of points are you getting for SilEighty vs. lineup #2? I'd imagine something like 35 - 40?

    I'd like to have got the first table to include laptimes and the 5 different points columns, but I'm not quite sure how to produce a table where everything lines up properly. (Don't know if I should paste in tab or comma delimited data) Anything more than 2 or 3 columns seems to get hopelessly misaligned if I paste directly into code tags from excel spreadsheets.
    Thanks for the suggestion though. As I mentioned in post #1, if anyone knows any good shortcuts for editing these code tables, let me know.
    :cheers:
     
  6. guska

    guska Premium

    Messages:
    2,216
    Location:
    Australia
    Far out man! You seriously had some time on your hands! Great job in compiling this data, take smore patience that I would ever have!

    Kudos
     
  7. Doggie

    Doggie

    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Finland
    Can't really remember, just tinkered for a little while yesterday. I suck at Motegi, but since i did about 2:19 laps with it, with just a couple of tries, I think it would be a good car. I will test it more tomorrow.

    About the code, html just doesn't handle tabs, so it's hard to get the list right. I have tried to get list right before and tried it again now with no luck... I remember that ages ago I did a similar list to another forum, and somehow managed to get an output from excel in which I replaced the tabs with "......" -dots. Didn't manage to replicate it today though :)

    Edit. This started to annoy me... I usually don't give up easily. So if you want to get the tabs right:
    1. Paste your text to notepad
    2. Select a font that uses same space for all of the letters. (forexample "fixedsys") for all of the text.
    3. Use tab to make the columns
    4. select and copy the text to your thread and mark it with
    Code:
     and [FONT="Fixedsys"] tags.
    
    [code][FONT="Fixedsys"]
    1	NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT	2'17 
    1	Peugeot 206cc '01			2'39
    1	Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03		2'29	 
    1	Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00		2'43
    1	Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85	2'31[/FONT]
     
    Smallhorses likes this.
  8. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    7,260
    Thanks for the advice Doggie. +rep for that, :tup: although I accidentally hit enter halfway through my comment, so it won't make much sense!
     
    Mart_b likes this.
  9. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

    Messages:
    21,603
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Superb stuff, SH... unfortunately, the GT4 forum needs another sticky about as much as John Prescott needs another pie, but I'll be sure to stick a link to this thread in the GT4 FAQ's and/or Game Guides sections, because it's really good stuff. :tup:
     
  10. GM

    GM

    Messages:
    4,103
    helped me alot
     
  11. Doggie

    Doggie

    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Finland
    Ok, did some testing today, and found out I remembered it wrong. I did a 2'23 second lap with the Sileighty, a with a completely new field as a second choice, was offered only 10 a-spec. Fields so far are:

    Code:
    [FONT="Fixedsys"]1
    NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept by GT	2'17
    Peugeot 206cc '01			2'39
    Honda jazz
    Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due '00		2'43
    Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85	2'31
    
    2
    Audi S3 '02				2'30
    Peugeot 206cc '01			2'39
    Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85	2'31
    Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03		2'29
    Honda CR-X SiR '90			2'36[/FONT]
    So sileighty aint a good car to drive in neither, first or second lineup. Honda jazz isn't on any of your lineups, so I'm thinking your copy is NTSC and mine PAL? Am I right?
     
  12. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,994
    Location:
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    I've already added it to the FAQ list above, but if you could take care of the Game Guides, that would be fabulous.
     
  13. Uncle Harry

    Uncle Harry

    Messages:
    1,414
    Is saying "Dodge Ram" equal to swearing in this Thread??

    Great work SH.

    The cars you list as 200 point races to me don't seem to have a chance against the AI fast car in that particular field.

    Have you beaten the AMG with the Mazda MX5?
    Maybe you could upgrade the MX5 for qualifying, nobble the AMG back to position 6 on your warm up lap, qualify fastest on the next lap, and then detune for the race and hope like hell the AMG is slowed down by the other 4 AI cars.

    Using the RAM makes a lot of sense!!!!!!
     
  14. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    7,260
    Yes! Be careful or I'll have the mods remove the offensive post!!! :lol: j/k

    No chance of touching the AMG with the Mazda, all I did was enter the races to see what points were on offer. :scared:

    The general consensus regarding PD Cup & high points is that the Ram is the only way to do it, although a great deal of lineup fishing is required, and dirty racing to achieve the wins. If I'm desperate for points later or I'm trying for the 100,000 club I'll have to go back for them (and most of the Special Conditions races) in this way.
    Until then I'm looking for as many points as possible that can be had in OLR-standard clean races (i.e. no contact with walls or AI, 2 wheels on track at all times) in a stock vehicle. So far my % complete & A-spec points total in my signature has been achieved mostly without modifications, and I've yet to even contemplate using a NOS shot! :yuck:
     
  15. RenesisEvo

    RenesisEvo

    Messages:
    895
    I would add that only for Motorland Reverse do you need to resort to some dodgy tactics and line-up fishing - the other 9 races are quite easy. I beat the Nismo 350Z S-tune by anywhere between 3 and 20 secs, depending on the course, using, dare I say it - the Dodge Ram, with rather a lot of bhp :sly:
     
  16. GM

    GM

    Messages:
    4,103
    Ok,
    that was a bad comment I made a while ago.
    So I'll a better one now :).

    Thanks alot for this guide Smallhorses,
    this was a great help when I came to wanting a challenge and high a spec points in the Polyphony Cup.
    I can tell this probaly taken you a long time to complete and you've put lots of effort into it. :)

    + Rep :):tup:

    I'll give you rep when it lets me :)
     
  17. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    17,514
    Location:
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    I ran the series again, and wound up with the 2nd lineup for the Motegi race, and I reset the event to get the 3rd lineup for the rest of the series. I used a slightly-modded Ram with all weight reduction removed, and the racing was absurdly easy; usually taking the lead before the end of the 1st lap.

    I'm guessing it would have been more challenging if I got the AMG, the Ford GT, or the 350Z-tune, but that's how it played out. Oh well, an easy 200 points per race.

    Yet using the Lexus SC 300 netted about 8-9 points, depending on the amount of ballast I used, and the series went literally down to the wire (even though the silver Z was my only challenger).
     
  18. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,994
    Location:
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    Now this is truly bizarre.

    I was looking to audition cars for the PD Cup last night (I'm tired of the 1-make 2-lappers but my only real race car is the 88C-V, so there's not much else to do in the Extreme Hall that doesn't require yet more miles in the Toyota racer).

    I used a stock Cobra R in GT3 and had a blast, so I hopped in my used SVT Mustang and entered the Suzuka race (Suzuka is my least favorite track; if I can win it here, I can win it anywhere).

    My first 3 or 4 lineups were nothing like yours. ALL of at least the first 4 lineups included the insanely fast AMG Mercedes. I finished 20+ seconds behind the SL55 - and 20+ seconds ahead of everybody else - and this was a 9-point race. Did they test the gameplay at all before they released GT4? But that's not my point.

    My point is that I somehow got somewhat different lineups than you did. I didn't see the FairladyZ GT-tune until at least the 5th or 6th field, after I had found the first field field without the AMG. That run included both the M3 and an S2000, I think, and was a walk in the Mustang. Then I went to the garage, switched to my Ford RS200, and came back. This entry is when the FairladyZ made its first appearance. Although I was still in the 10-point range, this was actually a very very good race (against the Z, anyway, which never left my mirror in 5 laps). I could have won it except that I was getting tired and gave him a few too many openings, eventually getting spun in the second turn of the last lap.

    The A-spec point calculations are just silly IMHO and so I'm not too worried about them. However, I am looking for a good, clean, close race series. So it looks like field 21 (or something like it) is the closest grouping above. I'll definitely use the lap time info to find a good car. Any recommendations?
     
  19. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    7,260
    Sadly yes, it's lineups 21 or 45, that'll give the closest racing, and that means 21 or 45 enter/exits after a console reset.
    If you go in after completing another race, or burning a gameday some other way, the lineups will be different. Being as I tested the theory in 5 cars of varying HP, each one after a console reset, and came up against the same lineups, I think that the console reset is a must.

    As I recall, after missing out on points at Sarthe in my first run through this, using the '73 Skyline against lineup 21, I went on to use a '97 MR2 against lineup 45, which was great fun, but takes a long time to reach!!!!

    As far as points go, it's that age old dilemma. Use something with enough grunt to stay with the hare, and you'll forfeit a lot of points because there are 4 other tortoises in the field. Use something with sufficiently low HP to give high points and close racing against the tortoises, and the hare will wipe the floor with you! Unless you find one of the more "level" playing fields, i.e. lineup 21 or 45!
     
  20. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,994
    Location:
    United States
    OK, armed with the knowledge above, I hoped in my stock JDM Honda Integra Type R and headed out for the PD Cup. I was about 7 or 8 re-entries in when I realized I had forgotten to see what the ITR's Motegi lap times were, but I figured it would be in the hunt without being devastating. So I kept re-entering until I got to Field 21. Against this lineup I got a whopping 10 A-spec points.

    I was about right, with the ITR turning 2':27-28" laps consistently, and a best of 2':26.683" at Motegi. I was not able to run away from the Supra and the A3, and I was at least halfway through the race before taking the lead for good. I won Motegi with a comfortable 1.908" MOV over the Supra. My lead had been almost 3 seconds at the highest, but I drove the last couple laps fairly conservatively because I wasn't sure how the tires would last. I did not have to drive for my life to win, but I did need to turn in consistent, efficient laps. I could pass cleanly without any real banzai divebomb moves. Perfect.

    At Seattle I had a surprising 5.059" MOV. I felt confident, but not that fast; it's been a while since I ran Seattle in GT4. A fun race that I drove very cleanly. Fast lap 2':00.334".

    I love Sears Point but I was worried about the 8 lap tire life. No problem on the Stock Car version of this course, though my MOV was a little smaller than I expected at 1.960", though again I was pretty conservative toward the end. Fast lap of 1':32.419".

    Then came R246 Reverse. I like this course, and I'm even decent on it, but I knew the loooong sweepers were going to play against the FWD Integra, and the loooong straights were going to play to the power of the Supra and the A3. Plus the AI always seems hooked up at this course. Sure enough, I finished 3rd about 9 seconds out. Fast lap of 2':08.619", and I was giving it all up between the end of the back straight and the S/F line.

    Next up was Fuji 2005, and despite how they ruined this track, I cruised to a clean 5.535" MOV over the S3, who is holding a narrow margin over the Supra as the strongest AI. Fast lap of 2':10.811".

    For the last race of my session, I tackled Motorland Reverse - 19 laps! Maybe I was overconfident, or something, but I got shelled here. I made it to 2nd by lap 9, just passing the Supra and with the S3 in distant sight. But by that time the tires were looking like there was no way they'd go the distance. I stayed out to Lap 11, but then it was clear they would not go 19 laps, so I pitted, falling back to 5th. And there I stayed. I figured the AI would pull a stupid and pit on lap 18, but they all kept sailing. I finished a pathetic next-to-last, almost 30 seconds out. I have no idea how they managed it - even the outside rear tire was yellow-green. No way the fronts would have lasted.

    Then out of pure habit, I saved the Motorland race instead of just turning the PS2 off and taking another shot at it next time I play. Oh, well.

    I'm pretty confident about the remaining 4 races, though the two long courses are going to be a bit of a fight. Hopefully they'll be winnable, though I'll probably change the oil before Le Sarthe just to be sure.
     
  21. Smallhorses

    Smallhorses Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    7,260
    Yup. Motorland is a surprise! I figure it's all of the bends, and not much straight in between, but I certainly noticed out of all my '73 Skyline races, that this one was the only one where I had to consider tyre-wear factors and the almost unheard of possibility of a pitstop! Fortunately, the tyres lasted the full 19 laps. Just. :scared:
     
  22. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,994
    Location:
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    What do you suppose my odds are at Le Sarthe and the 'Ring?
     
  23. frenzal

    frenzal

    Messages:
    2,238
    Location:
    Australia
    Great write up in the original thread, SmallHorses. My second time around at this event, thinking more about what i'm doing. I see what you meant about the AI sandbagging. I took a Sileighty, stock, in up against line up 48. The Impreza is the obvious standout, i was expecting tough opposition there with him having 70 HP on me.

    I'm not going to do this as a full writeup, merely to show how inconsistent and unfair PD are with their points allocation.

    First run at Motegi i took pole by over 5 seconds, final mov ended up at 7 secs, a fairly easy victory, but not as comfortable as the qualifying indicated. I had a pretty clean race, with a best of about 2'18. Similar story at seattle regarding qualifying, but this time mov only 1.5 secs, the Impreza was making up ground at a huge rate of knots over the last 2 laps, they musta hooked up a stage three turbo via remore control. I don't understand how they can give only 9 A-Spec points with that car flying like that at will.

    Infineon was won with ease, mov 18 secs was more comparable with the A-Spec points on offer. Still only 9, same for all races. For the record, i qualified for all events other than the 'Ring. Now comes the sting. I took pole at Tokyo by a clear and easy 5 secs, beat the Impreza off the line with ease, when out of the blue he is all over me first time around over along the back straight. Once he got past me, it was all over red rover. I lost by 14 seconds. Then comes Fuji....i take a clear pole again, then off a standing start the bastard shoots past me like he's got a V1 rocket up his kyber. As fas as I'm concerned, that gives me all clear rights to win by fair means or foul. I managed to claw back his lead enough to T-Bone him as he was turing at the first sharp right at Dunlop corner. I got a favouraBLE bounce, and got away cleanly in first. My lead at the next time check of 12 seconds was whittled away to 2.5 by the finishing line.

    Motorland reverse...easy win over the Impreza by a clear lap ( he pitted once on lap 7), i lapped him right on the line with orange rubber all round for an unexpected good win.

    Didn't expect much of a go at La Sarthe, after being as much 14 secs adrift on the second lap, final losing margin of 3 secs indicated he had troubles of some sort, which i din't see or expect. I prob would have pushed harder had i known. Easy pole at Capitaan, but as per previous races, they put something in his juice, and it was a hard pressed win with the Impreza pushing me all the way. The section up until and through the tunnel proved the difference, i seemd to gain around 2 secs consistently through these sections. Win by 3 secs.

    I haven't done Suzuka and the 'Ring, doing them tonight. Be interesting to see what the Impreza pulls out there. And all for 9 lousy A-Spec points.
     
  24. Sausage

    Sausage

    Messages:
    20
    I nearly went mad trying to match my car with the competition. Eventually I decided to just pick a car and keep re-entering until I saw a line-up I liked. In the end I had a decent enough time using a RX8 against two RX7s. It wasn't exactly a huge challenge but they kept me honest.
     
  25. AMG.

    AMG. Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    3,115
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Hi SH, surprise surprise. I didn't get the dreaded "you must spread around...." :) so there you go. :tup:

    I found the scientific approach that Wild Cobra Z28 did in the 200 A-spec race forum [thread=70995]A-Spec Point Data; Values, Races, and Modifications[/thread] of great help to determine which lineups might work best and what car to use. That might well be the mathematical formulae you're looking for.
    Mind you you still need pen and paper (or Excel! :)) to work it out. But once you've got it, it works like a charm. Kudos to Wild Cobra too!

    Wrt lineups, unfortunately there seem to be different GT4 discs. I was forever looking for a lineup I needed to win Nurb 1000 mls for 200 points.
    See [post=2670988]this post[/post] & a couple of posts before that (for the full picture).
    Nige and Han_the_Dragon found lineup 11 worked for them. I went through 111 lineups and never got 'theirs'. All 3 of us are on PAL and we even compared the disc lable and found no difference at all. In the end I settled for lineup 101.

    AMG.
     
  26. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

    Messages:
    10,410
    Location:
    United States
    Just wanted to 'air-rep' Smallhorses for all his work in this uh...3-year old thread. Although I don't give a hoot about A-spec points, the guide for the Ai line-ups was just what I was looking for, so I coulld make this vague set of races somewhat competitve.. :tup: So +Rep for that.
     
  27. lukeconnelly

    lukeconnelly (Banned)

    Messages:
    215
    This would be a good online series in gt5. There is so much different classes
     
  28. jontikis

    jontikis

    Messages:
    856
    Location:
    Greece
    I won the championship with the Hard Top Skyline GT-R '70 for 94 A-spec points.
    I chose to race against lineup #2, but the opponents were not all the same as mentioned in the OP:

    Audi S3 '02
    Peugeot 206cc '01
    Honda Integra Type R (DC5) '03 --- Instead of the Honda S2000 '01
    Mazda RX-7 GT-Limited (FC,J) '85
    Honda CR-X SiR '90 --- Instead of the Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
     
  29. RikkiGT-R

    RikkiGT-R Premium

    Messages:
    2,414
    So glad I found this thread, the PD Cup is doing my head in at the minute :irked:

    Retired about 10 times so far, just can't find a decent race. Either I fly past everyone at the start, or I simply cannot catch the lead car (despite being offered 1 A-Spec point). Honda NSX-R, Mitsubishi 3000GT, Lotus Esprit V8, Nissan Sylvia S15 and several others have been completely outclassed or utterly overpowered.

    Will start again tonight now that I know the sequence of opposition line-ups.