Porsche Panamera

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G.T

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Paganisterr
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There's going to be four-door Porsche Panamera. Here's part of the article from Autocar:

"Porsche is close to officially confirming its eagerly awaited fifth model line, with details starting to leak out of the companies HQ, including the new for-seater name: Panamera.
The name was registered by Porsche last July and is expected to adorn a concept version of the four-seater at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September.
Insiders describe the new model, exclusively revealed by Autocar on 9th December 2003, as a combination of coupe and saloon.
Due to grace showrooms in 2008, the V8-powered Panamera is desgined to seat four with a boot capacity of up to 450 litres. The four-door will be pitched directly against cars such as the BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz CLS and Maserati Quattroporte."

"Power for the new four-door Porsche will come from the same 4.5-litre V8 engines found in the Cayenne. They include a naturally aspirated version with 340bhp and a turbocharged unit with 450bhp. An even more powerful variant with over 500bhp is also in the pipeline."

I'm not keen on the styling of the rear end. I'll try and find a picture to show you.
 
Man, whats wrong with Porsche. First they give us a Boxster/911 hybrid that offers minimal advantages over either of those models - and then give it a lame as$ name to boot.

Then they give us this nonsense. A family saloon Porsche? Oh man. What next - Jaguar breaking into the city-runabout segment?
 
What did everyone say about the Cayenne? Was it a bad car? Not necessarily. And now Cayenne makes a good third of Porsche sales worldwide. Remember that Porsche is a company who's goal is to make money, and I don't think this will be an exception.
 
Sure they may make money, but it cheapens the brand.

I didnt say they would be bad cars, just pointless ones.
 
I remember hearing about this a while ago in R&T. I sorta like the idea, although soon Porsche will be like BMW and MB...
 
When I saw the back pic on autoweek.com I was like "EWW" But The pic from the front looks nice.


101990

Panamera1.jpg
 
I think they look good. Porsche can't survive with only the 911 anymore. The Boxter was the first taste of this. People were confused at the idea of a "cheap" Porsche. They aren't REAL fast, but they are very fun to drive. And thats the idea. If you want speed, you get a 911. But if you want a nice fun quick cabrio, the Boxter fits the bill nicely. And it did, and still does, sell great. And now with the new Cayman, you can get it in Coupe form, which I like a lot. I don't really dig cabrios, so a less-expensive Porsche coupe works nicely in my mind.

And the new Panamera looks great to me as well. Has a little 944 in the rear, and a little 612 Scag in the front. It will be interesting to see how it does. Not sure how people will take a Porsche sedan. But, as we've seen with the Cayenne, non-sportscar Porsches will sell. The Cayenne is a huge hit, most dealers can't keep them in. So, the idea of a sedan works great. I bet this things sales will be off the charts.

Hilg
 
I think this is great news. Lets face reality. If Porsche didn't develop the Cayenne, and the Boxster to a lesser degree, Porsche would no longer be here. They would have been bought out and destroyed by GM, Ford or some such company (i.e. like Saab, Jag, Aston Martin...). We would be sitting here talking about "Rembmer Porsche, remember the 911 and how great it was?". I for one am glad that we are not discussing that.

The 911 may be the worlds perfect sportscar. Even if you aren't a Porsche fan you can't deny that fact. Problem is is that the 911 doesn't appeal to everyone. Sure someone looking for the ultimate sportscar, concerned with performance...it's a no brainer. Unfortunately most people buying cars in this price range want more bang (bling) for their buck and could car less about on track performance. Thus they go for the bling of a Ferrari or some such thing.

Why shouldn't Porsche have a 4 door sport tourer? It makes perfect sense to me. BMW has them. Merc has them. Given Porsche's desire for perfection I bet the Porsche will be better than either. I can just see the 4door Porsche in the DTM...drool!

The Cayman. I think there is room for a MR hardtop from Porsche. RR doesn't appeal to everyone and a stripped down track car from the Porsche factory has it's appeal, limited, but it is there esepcially with an MR layout.
 
kensei
I think this is great news. Lets face reality. If Porsche didn't develop the Cayenne, and the Boxster to a lesser degree, Porsche would no longer be here. They would have been bought out and destroyed by GM, Ford or some such company (i.e. like Saab, Jag, Aston Martin...). We would be sitting here talking about "Rembmer Porsche, remember the 911 and how great it was?". I for one am glad that we are not discussing that.

Erm, Aston Martin wouldn't exist without Ford. And quite frankly they're better off for being bought by Ford.

The 911 may be the worlds perfect sportscar. Even if you aren't a Porsche fan you can't deny that fact.

Except it's not a fact. Even the 911 has it's flaws.

Why shouldn't Porsche have a 4 door sport tourer? It makes perfect sense to me. BMW has them. Merc has them. Given Porsche's desire for perfection I bet the Porsche will be better than either. I can just see the 4door Porsche in the DTM...drool!

Porsche is viewed as more exclusive then BMW and Mercedes, as a pure sportscar manufacturer. BMW and Mercedes also make cheap $20k hatchbacks and are regularly used as taxis on European countries. Porsches aren't.

There is also tradition. The 2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage was originally thought to be a mid engine car, which would obviously make it a good layout for a sportscar. But only 1 single road car to wear the Aston Martin badge has been mid engined, it'd go against tradition. The Cayenne may be fast, but for the price you can go a hell of a lot faster. Need I remind you that Porsche killed off it's motorsports projects for this SUV?
 
Look at what Porsche didn't do so well in it's history.
The 924 should come to mind, the 914 which was no real performer whatsoever and the 928. Even thought the 928 was the pimp ride of it's day, was no real asphault burner either.
The Cayenne is one heck of a vehicle and smart by Porsche.
This got all of the SUV owners/ manufacturers to rethink what a SUV is all about.
On this new venture, yukkk. I really don't like it and resembles to some degree the Lexus GS300 of a generation or two.
Diversification is what's needed by todays car manufacturer and with the exception of some marques like Lambo and Ferarri, need to have some new blood to stay afloat in the ever competitive car market.
Good post.
Misnblu
 
It looks like a stretched out 911 ...

Diversification is what's needed by todays car manufacturer and with the exception of some marques like Lambo and Ferarri.

Lamborghini, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc. can be specialty manufacturers because they are parts of conglomerates (Volkswagen, Fiat, Ford) which can easily make up any losses the company may take ... They don't need to branch off in order to secure a greater market share because other brands within their organizations can take care of that ... In fact, it would probably be detrimental as cheaper cars tend to cheapen the brand as a whole, so a lesser brand is used to sell cheaper cars within the organization ...

Porsche, on the other hand, is an independent company ... Branching out into other categories will allow Porsche a greater market share and, probably, greater profits (The Cayenne and Boxster have done wonders for Porsche's share prices), so it makes sense to continue growing ...
 
The359
Erm, Aston Martin wouldn't exist without Ford. And quite frankly they're better off for being bought by Ford.

I agree and used it (and all others) as an example why it is a good thing Porsche remained independent and was not bought out in the dark days.

The359
Except it's not a fact. Even the 911 has it's flaws.

Sure it does, I'll even agree. However, you know what I meant. The 911 has remaind a pinnacle of sportscar design for 40+ years.

The359
Porsche is viewed as more exclusive then BMW and Mercedes, as a pure sportscar manufacturer. BMW and Mercedes also make cheap $20k hatchbacks and are regularly used as taxis on European countries. Porsches aren't.

The359
There is also tradition.

Again I agree. But we aren't talking about a cheap $20k Porsche. Both BMW and Merc. spread the range from cheap econobox to high level motosport and most in between. Then agian why can't Porsche have a "cheap" (realtive) Porsche? Because of some snobbery in their "tradition"? Please. Markets are a reality. Companies can't bank on their tradition alone (look at Jaguar right now, Ford tride to bank on their tradition over quality). Sure it goes a long way and should be protected but it evolves and grows.

Example: If Apple stuck to it's "tradition" would they have made the ipod? Would they be as solid a company right now able to move forward with even more interesting projects and products? The parallels between Apple Computer and Porsche are many. Both are considered up market brands in their respective markets with refined product lines focusing on user experience over mass numbers sold.

The359
The Cayenne may be fast, but for the price you can go a hell of a lot faster. Need I remind you that Porsche killed off it's motorsports projects for this SUV?

True, however you skip one huge point. If Porsche didn't kill off it's motorsports project (you are refering to the "Lemans" project I infere) Porsche wouldn't be around right now, period. I'd rather have Porsche solid as a company and when the time is right get back into motorsport as a factory. For that matter it is debatable that Porsche ever killed their motorsports wing. Look at all the Porsche Cup racing, GT racing and so on. Maybe not "factory" in classic sense but there is support for some teams. As Porsche sells more cars it is in a better and better position to reenter factory motorsport officially.
 
kensei
I agree and used it (and all others) as an example why it is a good thing Porsche remained independent and was not bought out in the dark days.

That makes no sense. Aston Martin improves and thrives because they got bought out, so why would it be bad for Porsche to do the same thing?

Sure it does, I'll even agree. However, you know what I meant. The 911 has remaind a pinnacle of sportscar design for 40+ years.

Important, but I wouldn't call it a pinnacle either. Especially since the layout didn't even originate in the 901/911.

Again I agree. But we aren't talking about a cheap $20k Porsche. Both BMW and Merc. spread the range from cheap econobox to high level motosport and most in between. Then agian why can't Porsche have a "cheap" (realtive) Porsche? Because of some snobbery in their "tradition"? Please. Markets are a reality. Companies can't bank on their tradition alone (look at Jaguar right now, Ford tride to bank on their tradition over quality). Sure it goes a long way and should be protected but it evolves and grows.

Hello, Boxster? 914? Porsche has had cheaper sportscars for a while, nothing wrong with that. But they were still sportscars.

Example: If Apple stuck to it's "tradition" would they have made the ipod? Would they be as solid a company right now able to move forward with even more interesting projects and products? The parallels between Apple Computer and Porsche are many. Both are considered up market brands in their respective markets with refined product lines focusing on user experience over mass numbers sold.

What's untraditional about the iPod?

True, however you skip one huge point. If Porsche didn't kill off it's motorsports project (you are refering to the "Lemans" project I infere) Porsche wouldn't be around right now, period. I'd rather have Porsche solid as a company and when the time is right get back into motorsport as a factory. For that matter it is debatable that Porsche ever killed their motorsports wing. Look at all the Porsche Cup racing, GT racing and so on. Maybe not "factory" in classic sense but there is support for some teams. As Porsche sells more cars it is in a better and better position to reenter factory motorsport officially.

Porsche isn't stupid enough to run themselves in the ground based on a motorsports program. But it's not exactly brilliant to risk the future of your company on completely reinventing yourself as an SUV maker...

I never said that they killed off the entire motorsports wing. But they killed a traditional project that they are famous for to take a risk.

Porsche sold cars in the first place because of their racing exploits. Selling yet another SUV, especially an elitist one that is uber expensive (hence why they've made a more basic V6 model) isn't going to help.
 
It's actually not bad looking. The styling kind of has that Aston Martin look from the sides (which means it's good, unless you're referring to the Lagonda). I think Porsche may have some success with this machine.

Peter Klutt of the Speed Channel show "Sports Car Revolution" (not to mention "American Muscle Car" (yeah I know, he was the dude who broke the clutch to a certain muscle car, but just read along)) tried to prove that a Porsche 911 can be used all-year 'round. He proved that right from winter to fall and back to winter. As exotic as a Porsche is, most exotics don't really make good choices for daily drivers. You know, gas mileage, practicality, and all that stuff. And as it comes to Porsche, this machine just might make it a nice year-round automobile unless you like shopping for groceries in your Cayenne.

Maybe this might be a cool machine to be used practically. I don't know HOW practically, but we'll find out when it's released now, won't we? :confused: :odd:
 
When I first saw this topic I thought it would be about Porsche Panorama, which is an uncommon Porsche magazine. Any way, Ferdinand Porsche's legacy is being destroyed. First, VW came out with a FWD Beetle. Then, Porsche came out with an SUV. Now, Porsche is coming out with a sedan. What's up with all of these lame Porsches that look like they could pass for Daewoos.
 
Wow, some blind people here. Take into consideration on money, how a company is run, and how to stay in business, then you'll understand why Porsche does what it does :)
 
True. It's better to have Porsche than no Porsche. Porsche has to do what they have to do.
 
Porsche is still associated with "Sports car" when most ppl hear it.
What's the first thing you think when you hear the word?
Whether they diversify or not, their legacy will always be true to what Ferdinand stood for. Performance. 👍
Misnblu
 
The359
That makes no sense. Aston Martin improves and thrives because they got bought out, so why would it be bad for Porsche to do the same thing?

Aston is the only one. Jaguar is a better example then. Saab even.

The359
Important, but I wouldn't call it a pinnacle either. Especially since the layout didn't even originate in the 901/911.

Again, you know what I meant. Regardless of your personal opinion the 911 has proven it's worth over the years and is considered a pinnacle of sportscar design.


The359
Hello, Boxster? 914? Porsche has had cheaper sportscars for a while, nothing wrong with that. But they were still sportscars.
.

40k USD for a Boxster may be cheap"er" in porsche standards but is well out of the range of a 20k'ish Japanese sportscar. Granted Honda or Nissan are not in the same league as Porsche. The 914. I adore the car. I would love to own one too. Alot of bang for your buck with that one, more in loine with what we are discussing here.

Why can't Porsche make a cheap"er" sportscar to compete with a Nissan Z or Subaru WRX? Oh wait, not snobby enough, right.

So just because porsche has always made sportscars means they can only ever make sportscars. Every car we are discussing here in the Porsche line is a sportscar, you could even consider the Cayenne one if you stretch your definition. I have no issue with Porsche making a SUV. I like the Cayeen quite a bit. I'd never buy one (I'd never buy a SUV either) but if I had to that would be the one. To me it is pure Porsche. Fits right into Porsche IMO. I have no issue.

The359
What's untraditional about the iPod?

Apple was a hardware and software company. They made PCs and their own OS, until the ipod. No one saw the ipod coming. No one guessed it would be the revolution it was. Sure there were MP3 plyers prior, but they all were poorly made and useless. Apple has changed itself from a high end PC/OS maker to a multi channel media company who also makes their own hardware. Very not traditional and it is allowing Apple to do even more interesting things now.

The359
Porsche isn't stupid enough to run themselves in the ground based on a motorsports program. But it's not exactly brilliant to risk the future of your company on completely reinventing yourself as an SUV maker...

Let's see. Porsche has 4 model lines, with two more on the way, 20+ models all together of which 1 is a SUV (3 models). Boy oh boy. When I think SUV makers, Porsche is the first one that comes to mind.

The359
Selling yet another SUV, especially an elitist one that is uber expensive (hence why they've made a more basic V6 model) isn't going to help.

What makes the Cayenne and "elitist" SUV? There are more expensive one out there. What isn't a 911 and "elitist" sportscar (many consider it one). For that matter I guess Poirsche is just an "elitist" company who should only make one car, right?
 
ShobThaBob
Wow, some blind people here. Take into consideration on money, how a company is run, and how to stay in business, then you'll understand why Porsche does what it does :)

Porsche seemed to do fine in business with two model lines of pure sportscars for...how long?
 
The359
Porsche seemed to do fine in business with two model lines of pure sportscars for...how long?

Yes they did. However that ended and they had to find new channels to survive. If they stuck to the 2 model sportscar line there would be no more Porsche......
 
Mike Rotch
Man, whats wrong with Porsche. First they give us a Boxster/911 hybrid that offers minimal advantages over either of those models - and then give it a lame as$ name to boot.

Then they give us this nonsense. A family saloon Porsche? Oh man. What next - Jaguar breaking into the city-runabout segment?

Naw, I'd like to see what Porsche can do with this.
I mean, from the picture one the members posted, it looks pretty good.
 
PhatFat
When I saw the back pic on autoweek.com I was like "EWW" But The pic from the front looks nice.


101990

Panamera1.jpg
Maybe this sounds fussy, but haven't they decided where the rear door handles are going yet?

And if they're determined to get into the Saloon market, personally I think they'd be better aiming at the Bentley Flying Spur kind of saloon.

That way, they keep their prestige.
 
Holy old thread!!!


Anyways more details on this ghastly looking thing.

Autoblog
Spy Shots: the Panamera... and it's not exactly pretty
panamerafckgpeddb6.jpg


It looks like either way it goes, Porsche is about to drop a bomb on the world with the Panamera. Either the car will look like the increasingly unadorned mules -- a rather unsightly melange of Boxster-Cayenne-Cayman cues -- and people will wonder "Um, was ist das?" Or in a reveal worthy of Criss Angel, the car will somehow get unrecognizably elegant by the time the production model is displayed in two years.

KGP Photography has caught a slew of new spy shots showing the car that would lead one to place the bets on the former scenario. Porsche went its own way with the Cayenne styling, and in spite of the howls from Porschephiles, the bet paid off massively. But you can mark us down as shocked if Porsche actually bestows on us a Panamera with styling as... interesting... as what we see here.

More shots: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/porsche-panamera-spy-shots/305870/
 
Okay, the spoiler needs to go, I don't care what benefits or how unsafe it is without.

Actually, the whole rear needs to go, it's just lame. The rest is actually quite nice, perhaps abit of work on the bonnet lines.
 
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