Portimao

Portimao v2.0

No permission to download
247
Germany
Dresden
Patrick8308
Patrick8308 submitted a new resource:

Portimao - Slightly longer version, accurate curbing, stands original where possible, elevation partly correct

Replica of Portimao v1.0
Autodromo Internacional do Algarve

v1.0 Release Notes:

Track length and elements
  • F1 layout with chicane
  • track length 300 m longer than original
    reason:
    homestraight a bit longer to create famous downhill braking zone to T1, turn lengths slightly longer (limitation of TPE)
  • every radius and straight very close to original
Curbing and Scenery
  • all original curbs placed accurately
  • stands close to...

Read more about this resource...
 
110
England
God's Country
Mojo_6449
Brilliant circuit - here's a little preview in a stock Lamborghini Gallardo. Tuning is going to be essential for a lot of road cars to get decent times as the circuit has so much going on. I've since run my first race on the track in a touring/super GT car and it was much easier to handle. I'll upload that one in a day or two. Enjoy the video and download the track - it really is worth having - thanks @Patrick8308 for making it!

 
110
England
God's Country
Mojo_6449
Here is my first race on the track in the Weds Sport Lexus IS350 - a very enjoyable six laps.

 
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6,264
Canada
Canada
Sorry, but I just don't get it.

I'm sure this took effort to create, and it does look like a decent track to race on, but it is not Portimao.

If you watch an onboard of Portimao, and an onboard of this track, the differences are massive. Mostly in the elevation change, but elevation change through a corner completely changes the characteristics of the corner, thus making it a different corner.

To me, this would be like me frying up some ground beef and green peppers in a frying pan, slapping it between some wonder bread, and calling it a Whopper. It's not the same!

So ya, cool track, but it's not Portimao. I could "recreate" Eau Rouge in my backyard...that doesn't make it an actual Eau Rouge.
 
247
Germany
Dresden
Patrick8308
Sorry, but I just don't get it.

I'm sure this took effort to create, and it does look like a decent track to race on, but it is not Portimao.

If you watch an onboard of Portimao, and an onboard of this track, the differences are massive. Mostly in the elevation change, but elevation change through a corner completely changes the characteristics of the corner, thus making it a different corner.

To me, this would be like me frying up some ground beef and green peppers in a frying pan, slapping it between some wonder bread, and calling it a Whopper. It's not the same!

So ya, cool track, but it's not Portimao. I could "recreate" Eau Rouge in my backyard...that doesn't make it an actual Eau Rouge.

What are you expecting with the limits of the app?

If you judge the user created tracks like that none could be called a replica as there are always elevation differences.

Furthermore the track description only says that elevation is partly correct.

I have to point it out that clear: under the given conditions your critisicm is nonsens.
 
6,264
Canada
Canada
What are you expecting with the limits of the app?

If you judge the user created tracks like that none could be called a replica as there are always elevation differences.

Furthermore the track description only says that elevation is partly correct.

I have to point it out that clear: under the given conditions your critisicm is nonsens.
Thanks for clarifying my point. It's not nonsense at all. The course maker is not a good enough tool to create actual replica tracks, so given the constraints of the course maker, why is everyone trying to make these "replica" tracks when they know it's not possible to start with.

Reread my post again. I'm not critizing the creators efforts, or even the result really. What I am critizing is people's willingness to call this Portimao, when it is not even 50% the same as Portimao. The same can he said for any other course creator track where the elevation is that off. Only tracks I've seen that come close are flat tracks, like Sebring.

Anyways, enjoy your fried beef and green peppers I guess. I'ma go back to my burger now :cheers:
 
247
Germany
Dresden
Patrick8308
Patrick8308 updated Portimao with a new update entry:

Major Update - track length and route revised, removal of chicane, elevation absolutely perfected

I decided to recreate the track to ensure a more realistic feel.

- track length now only ca. 20 m off original length
- route revised - completely new drawn track: every radius and straight length is now just about original
- the chicane after T1 felt a bit annoying and has been removed to create a better flow

The most remarkable aspect of Portimao Circuit is it's elevation so my goal was to perfect the elevation. I'd declare this mission accomplished.

- all undulations are now spot on
-...

Read the rest of this update entry...
 
731
United Kingdom
London, United Kingdom
BenMillard
Exciting to see the new tools used on such a long and complicated track! Getting the ends to join up smoothly must be a huge task by itself, let alone getting all the elevation set by length through so many corners along the way. Very impressive work.

Just two things about the new version. Banking angle is still very steep, it's quite distracting and creates a weird shape in the compressed corners. Eiffel has a banked inside groove built in, even on the flattest banking angle setting. I'd like really to try this track at that setting. You might be surprised how much angle is on the inside groove.

The other thing, very hard to change, is sighting the corner exits and telling one corner from another. There isn't much variety and the 'skyscraper' altitude of the modified elevation removes external reference points. (Such as solitary trees and buildings from the default terrain.) Making the corner scenery more distinctive and using something tall to help sight the exits (or the midpoint of long turns) would really help.

The real track is pretty smooth as the surface is fairly new. There are some bumps and pits in your new version, they feel quite natural though. As if the track has aged a bit since the new surface went down the other year.

Turn 1, it seems to rise up too early and perhaps goes around too far? Feels like 80° when it should be more like 70° perhaps? And is the apex a bit tight or is it just the sudden rise in the road? In the photo on your resource page, you can see Turn 1 is nearly horizontal and very flat. Yours is rising, with banking and dramatically increasing gradient before the corner has completed.
 
247
Germany
Dresden
Patrick8308
let alone getting all the elevation set by length through so many corners along the way.

You're pointing it out Ben, it's really quite a lot of work. :scared: Just a short summary of what I've been doing:

- create an aerial image out of Google Earth and scale it in SketchUp (CAD freeware)
- draw the track path over the aerial image
- export the finished track path as a new image, import it to the Eifel Contour Map and scale it with GIMP (image editing freeware)
- position the track path at a location of the Contour Map where desired elevation is similar
- export the Contour Map with track path as a new image (scaled to 2048 x 2048 px)
- import this image to the TPE app and draw the track (exact radii and element lenghts measured in SketchUp)
- create all the curbs in reference to original positions in the aerial image
- create the scenery as close as possible to the original one (tryout of radii decreasing for certain elements to enable important track parts for object positioning)
- upload the track to PSN and save it in game
- save a replay of the new track
- extract the TED file out of the replay
- import this TED file to eran0004's elevation editor
- create a deployment list (radii and straight lengths) throughout the whole track with Excel
- check the heights at Google Earth and define all stations where height changes (ca. 120 stations for Portimao)
- examine the gathered height deployment in an onboard lap video at YouTube
- adapt the heights and slopes with the elevation editor
- upload the adapted TED file to PSN and check the track in game
- fix some minor things to perfect the elevation
- save the finished track in game

Well, that summary turned out to be short no more but it describes my whole track creating process. ;)

Just two things about the new version. Banking angle is still very steep, it's quite distracting and creates a weird shape in the compressed corners. Eiffel has a banked inside groove built in, even on the flattest banking angle setting. I'd like really to try this track at that setting. You might be surprised how much angle is on the inside groove.

Banking is set to normal as the original track seems to have neither special intense nor smooth banking. It might be a bit too steep at certain turns but actually I can't reduce the banking to a gentle setting anymore. If I would do that I had to save and upload the track with the TPE app again. But then it had the unadapted elevation again and I'd have to redo the work with the elevation editor again which I'm unwilling to do. ;) I'll rather focus on perfecting other tracks of mine.

The other thing, very hard to change, is sighting the corner exits and telling one corner from another. There isn't much variety and the 'skyscraper' altitude of the modified elevation removes external reference points. (Such as solitary trees and buildings from the default terrain.) Making the corner scenery more distinctive and using something tall to help sight the exits (or the midpoint of long turns) would really help.

As describes above I tried to symbolize the original surroundings as good as possible. Believe me when I say that the object positioning has been optimized already. The elevation modifying might create those skyscraper or embankment effects at some points but that's not influenceable.

The real track is pretty smooth as the surface is fairly new. There are some bumps and pits in your new version, they feel quite natural though. As if the track has aged a bit since the new surface went down the other year.

You're right Ben. The original surface might be smoother but this roughness is a side effect of the height adaption with eran0004's tool. I'd guess it's nearly impossible to exclude completely but I gave my best to achieve a smooth as possible surface. On the other hand I really like the result as it's exciting to feel the suspension work more.

Turn 1, it seems to rise up too early and perhaps goes around too far? Feels like 80° when it should be more like 70° perhaps? And is the apex a bit tight or is it just the sudden rise in the road? In the photo on your resource page, you can see Turn 1 is nearly horizontal and very flat. Yours is rising, with banking and dramatically increasing gradient before the corner has completed.

The photo on the ressource page might be a bit deluding. I've uploaded an onboard lap video to the ressource page which had been my reference during the track creating process. The video matches the heights gathered in Google Earth so the lowest point is ca. 50 m before the beginning of Turn 1. The track rises about 4 m till the end of Turn 1 and leads on rather horizontal after Turn 1.

I was curious about the angle of Turn 1 and checked it in SketchUp. Below you can see a screenshot I've made. The angle is 69,6 ° so it actually goes around as much as you've been expecting it should do. :P The radius is 23 m and the length is 28 m. I've drawn it exactly like that in the TPE app. As you can see in the aerial image this should be nearly correct.

Portimao_Turn 1.png


:cheers: