Powerslide??

  • Thread starter Lightsped
  • 35 comments
  • 6,895 views
L

Lightsped

88
What is the best way to powerslide a bike in TT without crashing? I am trying to kick the tail out while acclerating and also while braking.... I want to see tire smoke...
 
Lightsped
What is the best way to powerslide a bike in TT without crashing? I am trying to kick the tail out while acclerating and also while braking.... I want to see tire smoke...
Click to expand...

If your trying to 'light it up', get going fast, keel over full lean into a sweeper, then snap the throttle on-off... this should upset the bike and break the rear free. Dont let it spin too long tho, because if you get sideways, and regain traction too abruptly, you high-side.

If you get the 'tail' out more than just a little, your on thin ice, drifting on a bike isnt like in a car.

Chances are your butthole will try and eat the seat. =-)

Edit: To get the tire going while braking... fling it over and jam on the rear brake... thats a cardinal sin in motorcycle riding (racing or otherwise). Youll lock up the rear, and it will start to slide out very quickly.

In real life, they tell you to either A.) Keep the rear locked untill you come to a complete stop or B.) Verrrry slowly and gently let off the rear brake.. as the tire regains traction the bike will *snap* back into alignment with its direction of travel. If it snaps too quickly, it will toss the rider.

Thats a high-side. It doesnt come from sliding out to far, it comes from regaining traction too abruptly.
 
+1 i did some exit powerslides but didnt manage to to back it in yet, but i want to do it , it's going to be more fun on Supermotards!
 
Spectre600
If your trying to 'light it up', get going fast, keel over full lean into a sweeper, then snap the throttle on-off... this should upset the bike and break the rear free. Dont let it spin too long tho, because if you get sideways, and regain traction too abruptly, you high-side.

If you get the 'tail' out more than just a little, your on thin ice, drifting on a bike isnt like in a car.

Chances are your butthole will try and eat the seat. =-)

Edit: To get the tire going while braking... fling it over and jam on the rear brake... thats a cardinal sin in motorcycle riding (racing or otherwise). Youll lock up the rear, and it will start to slide out very quickly.

In real life, they tell you to either A.) Keep the rear locked untill you come to a complete stop or B.) Verrrry slowly and gently let off the rear brake.. as the tire regains traction the bike will *snap* back into alignment with its direction of travel. If it snaps too quickly, it will toss the rider.

Thats a high-side. It doesnt come from sliding out to far, it comes from regaining traction too abruptly.
Click to expand...

Does this actually happen in TT too or is this just showing off bike knowledge?:P
 
Niels
Does this actually happen in TT too or is this just showing off bike knowledge?:P
Click to expand...

Yes, evrything I described happens in TT as well.

Just pay attention next time you highside. Is it sliding out too far that makes you fall? Or is it when the bike snaps back in the opposite direction?

TT is a great sim.
 
Spectre600
Yes, evrything I described happens in TT as well.

Just pay attention next time you highside. Is it sliding out too far that makes you fall? Or is it when the bike snaps back in the opposite direction?

TT is a great sim.
Click to expand...


Yes highsiding is pretty reallistic on TT.. i havent one on the track but i have been close to one so the TT simulate this really good!!!👍
 
It really feels like all the physics are simulated on the fly. Nothing is 'canned'.
This makes for almost endless possibilities in terms of how the bikes act and react.

I think the design philosophy for TT was that the player controls the rider, not the bike. This really makes the game shine.
 
As in real life, you can get away with the most on light, small bikes...

If you want some 'powerslides', get on ANY semi powerfull bike, any 600cc+ will do. Crank er over, jerk the throttle on-off-on. Then hold on and prep for the crash.

Make sure pro mode is on.
 
i got a question can someone explain in english how u do a stand still burnout?i didnt get the first one it was too complicated!
 
9/10 slides end in something not pretty, like a high-side, which gives me chills.

If you want to get stylish on a bike, power wheelies through s-bends and rapid direction change looks most righteous in my opinion, really throwing the bike around.
 
Fredzy
9/10 slides end in something not pretty, like a high-side, which gives me chills.

If you want to get stylish on a bike, power wheelies through s-bends and rapid direction change looks most righteous in my opinion, really throwing the bike around.
Click to expand...

For super quick direction changes, close the throttle or squeeze the brakes while you steer.

Wheelies dont impress me. once the wheel is more than an inch above the ground, all the beautifull forward acceleration turns into rotational force. What a waste.
 
Spectre, I had that issue with my dad once, he wouldn't believe that it's quite possible (not knowing much from bikes) that a very low wheelie could increase rear grip, cause all the weight is on the back. Offcourse, you need to be soo good at controlling the bike that it doesn't come off too much, but my dad didn't believe my idea at all. We're talking about straight line here.

Can it increase rear grip / make you go faster on the straight (in real life)?
 
Niels
Spectre, I had that issue with my dad once, he wouldn't believe that it's quite possible (not knowing much from bikes) that a very low wheelie could increase rear grip, cause all the weight is on the back. Offcourse, you need to be soo good at controlling the bike that it doesn't come off too much, but my dad didn't believe my idea at all. We're talking about straight line here.

Can it increase rear grip / make you go faster on the straight (in real life)?
Click to expand...

Indeed it can - If the front wheel lifts juuuuuust a little, every kilo of the bike is spend anchoring the rear tire to the ground creating traction..

I've been riding the Ring like a complete tosser on my VFR400R, and I simply can not get the rear to slip... I suck at this game...
 
Niels
Spectre, I had that issue with my dad once, he wouldn't believe that it's quite possible (not knowing much from bikes) that a very low wheelie could increase rear grip, cause all the weight is on the back. Offcourse, you need to be soo good at controlling the bike that it doesn't come off too much, but my dad didn't believe my idea at all. We're talking about straight line here.

Can it increase rear grip / make you go faster on the straight (in real life)?
Click to expand...

Your right. Its a *well known* fact of motorcycle racing, and drag racing, that the maximum accleration of a bike is when the front wheel is juuuuuust barely skimming the ground. If you tried to accelerate any harder at that point, the extra force would just go into rotating the bike (eg, making the wheelie higher). This is one reason why sportbikes get more and more biased towards having wieght at the front of the bike. Its also why you see racers (and drag racers) leaning far forward on hard acceleration (in addition to reducing wind drag).

From this fact, you can deduce that the longer a bikes wheelbase the harder it can accelerate *and* stop (provided tire grip is good). This is one reason why the hayabusa is so long. It can accellerate much harder than any supersport style bike, simply because it wont wheelie.

Infact, if you put sticky race rubber onto a cruiser (yuck), it would be able to stop much harder than a sportbike, because its nearly impossible to 'endo' something that long and low. You would have to have a nice set of brakes, or some really strong (and well controlled) hands.

As far as tire grip goes, tire grip can be simplified and explained like this: A tire on pavement has a coeficiant of friction.. say its 1:1, for example. That means, that if there is 100 lbs on that tire, it will take 100lbs of side force to break it loose. So, in theory, the more wieght you put on a tire, the more grip it will provide.

There are limits to this simple explaination, if you put too much wieght on a tire, it will simply tear loose, and loose grip anyway. And throttle changes and wieght shifts cause instantaneous weight changes on the tire too. But for the most part, it holds true.

A good set of sticky race rubber can provide a coeficiant of friction around (and above) 1.4-1.5

And drag racing rubber on a treated surface is damn near super glue.
 
Spectre600
Your right. Its a *well known* fact of motorcycle racing, and drag racing, that the maximum accleration of a bike is when the front wheel is juuuuuust barely skimming the ground. If you tried to accelerate any harder at that point, the extra force would just go into rotating the bike (eg, making the wheelie higher). This is one reason why sportbikes get more and more biased towards having wieght at the front of the bike. Its also why you see racers (and drag racers) leaning far forward on hard acceleration (in addition to reducing wind drag).

From this fact, you can deduce that the longer a bikes wheelbase the harder it can accelerate *and* stop (provided tire grip is good). This is one reason why the hayabusa is so long. It can accellerate much harder than any supersport style bike, simply because it wont wheelie.

Infact, if you put sticky race rubber onto a cruiser (yuck), it would be able to stop much harder than a sportbike, because its nearly impossible to 'endo' something that long and low. You would have to have a nice set of brakes, or some really strong (and well controlled) hands.

As far as tire grip goes, tire grip can be simplified and explained like this: A tire on pavement has a coeficiant of friction.. say its 1:1, for example. That means, that if there is 100 lbs on that tire, it will take 100lbs of side force to break it loose. So, in theory, the more wieght you put on a tire, the more grip it will provide.

There are limits to this simple explaination, if you put too much wieght on a tire, it will simply tear loose, and loose grip anyway. And throttle changes and wieght shifts cause instantaneous weight changes on the tire too. But for the most part, it holds true.

A good set of sticky race rubber can provide a coeficiant of friction around (and above) 1.4-1.5

And drag racing rubber on a treated surface is damn near super glue.
Click to expand...

Haha:lol: My dad is soo stubborn, I didn't known if my reasoning was right, but he didn't even allow the though in his mind that a limited wheelie could possibly be faster.

Thanks:)
 
No problem... The seemingly 'simple' design of a motorcycle really introduces increadibly complex physics to the equasion. And alot of it is more difficult to understand than 4 wheel (or 'tracked') physics.

For example.. it wasnt widely known untill fairly recently (1970's) that the only effective way to steer a motorcycle is 'Countersteering'. You actually turn the handlebars the *opposite* direction that you want to lean. The effect is so dramatic and immediate, it makes flicking the heaviest touring bikes around easy as pie.

Go figure =-)
 
Spectre600
For example.. it wasnt widely known untill fairly recently (1970's) that the only effective way to steer a motorcycle is 'Countersteering'. You actually turn the handlebars the *opposite* direction that you want to lean. The effect is so dramatic and immediate, it makes flicking the heaviest touring bikes around easy as pie.
Click to expand...
So... uhh... How exactly were people turning motorcycles before this great discovery?
 
DR Motard
So... uhh... How exactly were people turning motorcycles before this great discovery?
Click to expand...

Glad you asked. There were a few methods, but one widely believed one was the 'body shift' method.

The theory is that you would shift your wieght to one side of the bike, which would cause it to turn. People who subscribe to this method have difficulty cornering, because there is a percieved delay from when you shift your wieght, till the bike actually turns.

This method was disprooved by Kieth Code. He has a test bike at his superbikes school that has 2 sets of handlebars. One set is the normal controls. The other set is welded on to the frame, and does not turn the wheel (but still has throttle and brake controls).

People get on this bike, and try and turn the by shifting thier body wieght. The best anyone could ever do is to slllloooowly lean the bike over... there is no way to control the bike effectively.

Many people could easily control motorcycles, but never really understood how. Think of riding a bicycle, the task of turning the bike is in reality, a very complex one. But we tend to 'feel' our way through it, and we just 'know' how to do it.

Interestingly, turning a bicycle and turning a motorcycle require the same countersteering action.

When you turn to the left in a car, the centrifugal forces 'pull' to the right. Scince the car is a tracked vehicle, its not a problem. The car turns to the left, while leaning to the right.

If you were to turn a motorcycle wheel to the left, it would quite instantly move left. *But* the main mass of the bike, would continue to move forward.. and in a similar way as the car, the bike would lean to the right. Infact, it does so very quickly. One the pressure is released from the handlebar, the front wheel starts to track the turn, and the bike *then* turns to the right.

The amount of pressure you apply to the handlebars is directly proportional to how fast the bike leans. In some superbike races in the late 70's (i think), riders would come into the pits with *bent handlebars* because the they pushed so hard the tube handlebars simply deformed.

This is a difficult concept to understand, and it was shunned for many years by 'experts'.. The best way I can make a connection non-riders understand, is to relate it to bicycle riding.

When the bike starts to fall to the left, what do you need to do to stop it from falling further? You need to turn left. This brings the bike back to the vertical. In effect, it leans it right. If you were to continue to hold the handlebars to the left, you would continue to lean to the right.

Make sense?
 
Spectre600
Glad you asked. There were a few methods, but one widely believed one was the 'body shift' method.

The theory is that you would shift your wieght to one side of the bike, which would cause it to turn. People who subscribe to this method have difficulty cornering, because there is a percieved delay from when you shift your wieght, till the bike actually turns.

This method was disprooved by Kieth Code. He has a test bike at his superbikes school that has 2 sets of handlebars. One set is the normal controls. The other set is welded on to the frame, and does not turn the wheel (but still has throttle and brake controls).

People get on this bike, and try and turn the by shifting thier body wieght. The best anyone could ever do is to slllloooowly lean the bike over... there is no way to control the bike effectively.

Many people could easily control motorcycles, but never really understood how. Think of riding a bicycle, the task of turning the bike is in reality, a very complex one. But we tend to 'feel' our way through it, and we just 'know' how to do it.

Interestingly, turning a bicycle and turning a motorcycle require the same countersteering action.

When you turn to the left in a car, the centrifugal forces 'pull' to the right. Scince the car is a tracked vehicle, its not a problem. The car turns to the left, while leaning to the right.

If you were to turn a motorcycle wheel to the left, it would quite instantly move left. *But* the main mass of the bike, would continue to move forward.. and in a similar way as the car, the bike would lean to the right. Infact, it does so very quickly. One the pressure is released from the handlebar, the front wheel starts to track the turn, and the bike *then* turns to the right.

The amount of pressure you apply to the handlebars is directly proportional to how fast the bike leans. In some superbike races in the late 70's (i think), riders would come into the pits with *bent handlebars* because the they pushed so hard the tube handlebars simply deformed.

This is a difficult concept to understand, and it was shunned for many years by 'experts'.. The best way I can make a connection non-riders understand, is to relate it to bicycle riding.

When the bike starts to fall to the left, what do you need to do to stop it from falling further? You need to turn left. This brings the bike back to the vertical. In effect, it leans it right. If you were to continue to hold the handlebars to the left, you would continue to lean to the right.

Make sense?
Click to expand...

Keith Code didn't disprove anything with his 'No BS' bike. Check out Christian Pfeiffer's antics on his Duc or try pushing with your knee into the tank and weighting the inside peg. You can turn a bike with out use of the handlebars. Hell, there are a skilled few that can change directions without the front wheel even being on the ground.

As far as I know, the bike isn't leaning because its going straight while the front wheel is moving to one side. Its an angular momentum problem. Something like rotating a gyro and causing a moment.

I do ride, so yes, I am aware of how to get my bike turning. 👍

100_4440Drew.jpg
 
busas wheelie, I've seen it more then once.

Nice DRZ motard. I've got an 02 drz 400s, but due to my love of dirt riding, i've opted for a 70% dirt front tire and 50/50 rear. Isn't it a great feeling pushing sport bikes through turns though??

The above photo is a very good example of countersteering. I just feel it is worth mentioning in case anyone actualy jumps on a bike and tries it, it is a very slight, almost non-intentional reaction to leaning into a curve. I've been riding so long it is natural to me.
 
If you really beleave that you can effectively turn a motorcycle *at speed* without countersteering, your just lying to yourself.

Christian Pfieffer has some amazing skill, but the turning your reffering too was done at VERY low speed. Infact, he almost lets the bike *fall* to one side.

I would LOVE to see you turning a bike like that at 45 mph. Its not going to happen.

And while im sure you feel great about blasting the countersteering theory, your alternative explaination is less than adiquite. Maybe you could do your homework and explain exactly what you mean by 'steering moment or something'

The gyro effect of the front wheel has an effect on leaning the motorcycle. And if your *at speed* pushing the spinning wheel out of its plane of rotation gives you gyroscopic resistance. This *can help* you to lean the bike, but it also causes the bike to become more stable the faster it goes.

The skilled few you refer to that can change directions while on one wheel..
Well, they do so very slowly, or they do it at low speed. And if you think they can enter a turn faster than I can with both wheels on the ground using countersteering...

So I have yet to see how Kieth Codes testbike didnt disrpoove anything. They dont ride at 10 mph at the California superbike school.

Correct me if im wrong.. it sure looks like your holding onto the handlebars in that picture.. But only for throttle control, right? ;)

Didnt you take the msf course?
 

Similar threads

L
How to drift a 4wd
Replies
9
Views
994
xMAXIx79
xMAXIx79
Kobayashiiii
How to do drift smoke while drift properly
Replies
6
Views
2K
nfsp2kTW
N
Spyrious
Cant save rear sliding out (no drift)
Replies
7
Views
8K
Spyrious
Spyrious
wlashack
Online Time Trial
Replies
8
Views
500
skydragon49
skydragon49
A
Any tips for Master License B-6?
Replies
8
Views
648
Avenger2000
A

Latest Posts

Back