Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

[DesertPenguin]

I'm hearing that the Logitech G29 isn't recognized? Is this a serious issue across the board or anecdotal to just a few people here?

How is the manual transmission this time around? Is the clutch pedal implemented properly or can you shift without clutch like in PCars2?

 

[oneloops]

Handling and FFB are very different across the three, and I didn’t mix the two up at all, nor can you just remove over the limit behaviour from a comparison, nor did I suggest that switching off driver aids make ACC is do way arcade.

You’ve basically just undone your own argument quite well however.

You maybe didn't understand what I said before.

Over the limit is not the same as big mistakes.

 

[Scaff]

You maybe didn't understand what I said before.

You said all three handled in the same way, without any caveats, now you are adding in caveats, which negates your previous claim.

 

[Pearl Jam]

I'm hearing that the Logitech G29 isn't recognized? Is this a serious issue across the board or anecdotal to just a few people here?

How is the manual transmission this time around? Is the clutch pedal implemented properly or can you shift without clutch like in PCars2?

Mine works just fine with it so I guess it’s a random occurrence

 

[oneloops]

You said all three handled in the same way, without any caveats, now you are adding in caveats, which negates your previous claim.

I said from the beggining than they handle the same when driving in a good pace, quick enough. If you do big mistakes you can't drive quick enough.

 

[psychoazubi]

I said from the beggining than they handle the same when driving in a good pace, quick enough. If you do big mistakes you can't drive quick enough.

Reading that pcars 3, gts and acc handle equally or even in a similar way is the the most wrong thing I have read in a long time. You clearly haven’t been at the very limit in acc if you think so...

 

[oneloops]

Reading that pcars 3, gts and acc handle equally or even in a similar way is the the most wrong thing I have read in a long time. You clearly haven’t been at the very limit in acc if you think so...

Quick enough I think. Not alien but 1'45.6 with an Audi R8 GT3 at Barcelone in ACC (with very few changes in setup) 1'45.6 in GTS too and 1'46.1 after only 11 laps in PCARS3
1'42.201 on Kyalami + BMW M6 with very few changes in setup.

Many people mix FFB with handling.

 

[psychoazubi]

And that makes me wonder even more how you come to that conclusion? You need to be way more precise with your steering/throttle/brake inputs in acc or you will lose valuable time (or worst: the car).
Pcars3 is way simpler, it’s just a dumb full throttle/brake and some decent steering. You get nowhere enough info from the car to have any need to be as precise as in acc (that is the ffb part now).

Edit: the laptime comparison on the different games doesn’t help. They all have different bop and (more important) different tires.

 

[oneloops]

And that makes me wonder even more how you come to that conclusion? You need to be way more precise with your steering/throttle/brake inputs in acc or you will lose valuable time (or worst: the car).
Pcars3 is way simpler, it’s just a dumb full throttle/brake and some decent steering. You get nowhere enough info from the car to have any need to be as precise as in acc (that is the ffb part now).

When you know well enough the (or your) limit of a car on a track in ACC you just go near to that limit and handling, wheel inputs, brake inputs, throttle inputs, driving techniques to approach every corner, when small sliding along the turn and over the kurb and when exiting the turn are similar in ACC and PCARS3 (more enough than I thought at the beggining).

When you try a new car or a new track or very hardcore setups then yes, you have to be very carefully and gentle with the inputs in ACC and less carefull in PCARS3 because of the different handling when doing big mistakes usually in those conditions.

Edit: I agree with your note about laptimes, it's not the most important thing (if it's not a very large difference).

 

[psychoazubi]

It’s not at all the same. In pcars3 just slam the car into the corner, Ride over the curbs as much as you want and give it full beans on the exit, again hammering over the curbs. The car doesn’t care it all, there is never the danger of losing it. Try that in acc, no way of getting a good clean corner that way. Try the the rivals event in Laguna Seca, difference in driving is very obvious. You can also brake much much later and just stay full on the brakes while turning, the car doesn’t care. Again, do that in acc and it will hurt your time (and tires) badly.

don’t get me wrong, I also like the driving in pcars, it’s just plain and simple. But to compare it to acc? No way..

i finished all rivals events in upper gold or Platin and never even was in danger to lose a car. In fact, i didn’t even manage to spin a car once during my 8-10h of game time (except for the left/right combo at snetterton after the back straight, but that is just a horrible corner )

 

[Scaff]

I said from the beggining than they handle the same when driving in a good pace, quick enough. If you do big mistakes you can't drive quick enough.

Even under the limit they are very different, if you can’t feel the input smoothing that PC3 has in place even with a wheel then I’m amazed, as it’s quite clear to feel. The handling model is dumbed down from PC and PC2 to the degree that you can attack curbs in a manner that is closer to GTS than AC, ACC or reality.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

As for farming XP from what little I did with it my impression was that shorter races were better than longer ones. For one thing you get extra XP for xnumber of wins on the track and xnumber of wins in the car. Where I was having the best results was running 5 laps on Daytona then after the race where it had awarded credits and shows your car level up there is a restart button. Hitting that throws you right back into the race menu where you can start another race with very little delay. It warns you that unsaved progress will be lost but I did not see any issues from doing it, still had the credits xp and awards same as if I had hit continue just a lot faster getting back into the race that way.

At level 10 I was getting 5-7k credits per minute in a slow car. XP I have no idea it seemed like I was completing at least 1 or more awards in most of the races. Apparently it only shows two awards even if you have completed more during that run.

I assume that per minute amount would be higher with a faster car so long as you can drive it clean and win.

Also it seemed that the credits did not change with the difficulty level but did with the number of AI on the track. XP of course was higher at higher difficulties. I was running most of the races at highest settings, max AI and no assists.

 

[oneloops]

Even under the limit they are very different, if you can’t feel the input smoothing that PC3 has in place even with a wheel then I’m amazed, as it’s quite clear to feel. The handling model is dumbed down from PC and PC2 to the degree that you can attack curbs in a manner that is closer to GTS than AC, ACC or reality.

That's the same smoothing handling change from AC to ACC too. It is quite clear as well.

But you can attack curbs really like ACC in PCARS3, cars do oversteer or have the same balance issues in the same conditions, I've tested very well in Barcelone. Try to go a little over the interior curb in the last turn for example or over the 4 or 5 first turns, (over all turns they match ACC and PCARS3 over the curvs (except the saucises of the last chicane).

It’s not at all the same. In pcars3 just slam the car into the corner, Ride over the curbs as much as you want and give it full beans on the exit, again hammering over the curbs. The car doesn’t care it all, there is never the danger of losing it. Try that in acc, no way of getting a good clean corner that way. Try the the rivals event in Laguna Seca, difference in driving is very obvious. You can also brake much much later and just stay full on the brakes while turning, the car doesn’t care. Again, do that in acc and it will hurt your time (and tires) badly.

don’t get me wrong, I also like the driving in pcars, it’s just plain and simple. But to compare it to acc? No way..

i finished all rivals events in upper gold or Platin and never even was in danger to lose a car. In fact, i didn’t even manage to spin a car once during my 8-10h of game time (except for the left/right combo at snetterton after the back straight, but that is just a horrible corner )

Full on brakes while turning and the car doesn't care and with no time lost? really ? I will test that.

You are very good at PCARS3 rivals because you have a very good training in ACC, it helps a lot.

 

[psychoazubi]

That's the same smoothing handling change from AC to ACC too. It is quite clear as well.

But you can attack curbs really like ACC in PCARS3, cars do oversteer or have the same balance issues in the same conditions, I've tested very well in Barcelone. Try to go a little over the interior curb in the last turn for example or over the 4 or 5 first turns, (over all turns they match ACC and PCARS3 over the curvs (except the saucises of the last chicane).



Full on brakes while turning and the car doesn't care and with no time lost? really ? I will test that.

You are very good at PCARS3 rivals because you have a very good training in ACC, it helps a lot.

sorry but I can’t take your first statement seriously, cars in pcars hardly have an balancing issues at all. They are all magically balanced with a little helping hand.

im good at rivals cause I’m a doing sim racing for 10 years and play almost every game that is out there...

 

[Scaff]

That's the same smoothing handling change from AC to ACC too. It is quite clear as well.

I'm talking about input smoothing, which it seems you either missed or don't know what it is!

But you can attack curbs really like ACC in PCARS3, cars do oversteer or have the same balance issues in the same conditions, I've tested very well in Barcelone. Try to go a little over the interior curb in the last turn for example or over the 4 or 5 first turns, (over all turns they match ACC and PCARS3 over the curvs (except the saucises of the last chicane).

Point number 1, no they don't. Point number 2, I've already explained PC3 is more forgiving in this regard because of input smoothing.

Ok, so what is input smoothing?

First, you need to understand that a car will generate the maximum about of lateral grip when it actually exceeds it tyres slip angle limit by a small amount, the exact amount will vary depending on the tyre, but all tyres will do this. That is not a subject for debate, its a demonstrable, proven fact of vehicle dynamics and tyre physics.

As such all cornering on the limit will require constant corrections to keep at that optimum limit, and if you step over that limit then greater correction will be needed, until a point is reached where you will not be able to correct it. Any correction will need to involve applying the right amount of steering lock and throttle application. Once again these are not areas of debate, they are proven, demonstrable facts of vehicle dynamics and tyre physics.

See pages 13 to 75 of Milliken and Milliken's book, Race Car vehicle dynamics for citations on all of the above, and the following illustrates the point around slip angles rather well.

Now if a correction requires a steering input of X and a throttle input of Y to correct, then, in reality, you don't need to be exact with this and depending on the tyre you may well be able to get away with an overlap of say +/- 4% and still correct for it, with road tyres being more forgiving that slicks in general terms.

What input smoothing does is allow a greater, and more un-realistic range of error to still be seen as 'correct', let's say it allows correction overlaps of +/- 15% to still be seen as 'right'. Its not realistic, but it sure does feel great for most people. What its doing is smoothing out the errors in the input the user is making, making the driving model more forgiving and easy to get to grips with.

Ac to ACC categorically does not do this, PC3 in comparison to PC and PC2 does, and you can feel it.

Its why GTS and PC3 (and many other titles) feel so gamepad friendly, some even go so far as to start applying opposite lock for you, which PC3 does this with a gamepad even with all assist off. Its what Driveclub does, and funnily enough the same team that refined that area for Driveclub worked on PC3!

On a related topic you can see how far it can be taken with the steering and brake assists that you can complete a daily Rivals event with the throttle buried and only minor steering input.

 

[oneloops]

sorry but I can’t take your first statement seriously, cars in pcars hardly have an balancing issues at all. They are all magically balanced with a little helping hand.

im good at rivals cause I’m a doing sim racing for 10 years and play almost every game that is out there...

As I said before to Scaff, try to go a little over the las interior curbs at Barcelone, pushing in the same way as you drive in ACC. Or over the curvs from the first 4 or 5 turns for example, or the slowest or the interior curb of the quick turn before the back straight. I have the same balance issues going over the curvs in the two games.

I'm talking about input smoothing, which it seems you either missed or don't know what it is!



Point number 1, no they don't. Point number 2, I've already explained PC3 is more forgiving in this regard because of input smoothing.

Ok, so what is input smoothing?

First, you need to understand that a car will generate the maximum about of lateral grip when it actually exceeds it tyres slip angle limit by a small amount, the exact amount will vary depending on the tyre, but all tyres will do this. That is not a subject for debate, its a demonstrable, proven fact of vehicle dynamics and tyre physics.

As such all cornering on the limit will require constant corrections to keep at that optimum limit, and if you step over that limit then greater correction will be needed, until a point is reached where you will not be able to correct it. Any correction will need to involve applying the right amount of steering lock and throttle application. Once again these are not areas of debate, they are proven, demonstrable facts of vehicle dynamics and tyre physics.

See pages 13 to 75 of Milliken and Milliken's book, Race Car vehicle dynamics for citations on all of the above, and the following illustrates the point around slip angles rather well.

View attachment 954177

Now if a correction requires a steering input of X and a throttle input of Y to correct, then, in reality, you don't need to be exact with this and depending on the tyre you may well be able to get away with an overlap of say +/- 4% and still correct for it, with road tyres being more forgiving that slicks in general terms.

What input smoothing does is allow a greater, and more un-realistic range of error to still be seen as 'correct', let's say it allows correction overlaps of +/- 15% to still be seen as 'right'. Its not realistic, but it sure does feel great for most people. What its doing is smoothing out the errors in the input the user is making, making the driving model more forgiving and easy to get to grips with.

Ac to ACC categorically does not do this, PC3 in comparison to PC and PC2 does, and you can feel it.

Its why GTS and PC3 (and many other titles) feel so gamepad friendly, some even go so far as to start applying opposite lock for you, which PC3 does this with a gamepad even with all assist off. Its what Driveclub does, and funnily enough the same team that refined that area for Driveclub worked on PC3!

On a related topic you can see how far it can be taken with the steering and brake assists that you can complete a daily Rivals event with the throttle buried and only minor steering input.

PC3 is more forgiving when you do big mistakes as I said before. All you explain there about input smoothing goes in the same direction of mine.

Maybe in an alien pace (like a racing driver) input smoothing on PCARS3 makes more difference in the way you have to drive but in a "1'45.6 GT3 at barcelone" pace the way you have to drive on ACC and PCARS3 is the same. That's what's I said from the beggining. Not with bigs mistakes (as in an arcade way of playing) and I don't know at aliens levels (because this is not my level).

You can turn on all assists and aids in every sim and it goes like an arcade as well.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

As for farming XP from what little I did with it my impression was that shorter races were better than longer ones. For one thing you get extra XP for xnumber of wins on the track and xnumber of wins in the car. Where I was having the best results was running 5 laps on Daytona then after the race where it had awarded credits and shows your car level up there is a restart button. Hitting that throws you right back into the race menu where you can start another race with very little delay. It warns you that unsaved progress will be lost but I did not see any issues from doing it, still had the credits xp and awards same as if I had hit continue just a lot faster getting back into the race that way.

At level 10 I was getting 5-7k credits per minute in a slow car. XP I have no idea it seemed like I was completing at least 1 or more awards in most of the races. Apparently it only shows two awards even if you have completed more during that run.

I assume that per minute amount would be higher with a faster car so long as you can drive it clean and win.

Also it seemed that the credits did not change with the difficulty level but did with the number of AI on the track. XP of course was higher at higher difficulties. I was running most of the races at highest settings, max AI and no assists.

Cash is fix doesn't matter what difficulty you use.

Every level has 10 tiers and every tier you level up to you get a fix number of money and that doesn't Change.

I'm on level 26 and i'm getting 29,500 every tier up from level 25 which was 29,000 so it only went up by 500.

So on lever 26 i'll be getting in total for each tier.

10 x 29,500 = 295K And that's not gonna change.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Well I managed to spin every car I drove at least once On Daytona if you get down on the apron in the corner it is very easy to loose it, even in a car that drives pretty well. The only other case I remember spinning it was in the rain in that first championship. I did not notice the wet road initially and when throttled down out of a corner around she went.

 

[Konan]

 

[Chikane_GTR]

@Konan

@PJTierney

Could you explain this XP jump?

This is how i got to that 2.2m in 55 laps




Supersampling mode is off on my ps4 pro, my tv doesn't even supported since is 4k

 

[Nacho Libre]

I have seen those XP jumps too.

 

[Konan]

Hmmm... Might be a bug.

 

[strela]

Could you explain this XP jump?

The Indy is definitely bugged. 3 different races. Same setting. All 20 laps. Clean race in all cases.
First race 600k exp, second 800k and third 60k exp. Except for the last race I saw the xp incase by a lot during the race. Sometimes for 150k others for 400k. Definitely a bug.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Cash is fix doesn't matter what difficulty you use.

I think that is pretty much what I said wasn't it?

Every level has 10 tiers and every tier you level up to you get a fix number of money and that doesn't Change.

Yes that is true but is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the award credits when you win a race. They seem to increase as you level up. Again it is hard to tell because there are sometimes bonus credits added in and almost always bonus xp added in.

The number of AI most definitely makes a difference in the amount you get for winning.
Starting last also increases the potential XP per race as you get XP for overtaking cars.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Console players: What about us?

 

[Scaff]

As I said before to Scaff, try to go a little over the las interior curbs at Barcelone, pushing in the same way as you drive in ACC. Or over the curvs from the first 4 or 5 turns for example, or the slowest or the interior curb of the quick turn before the back straight. I have the same balance issues going over the curvs in the two games.



PC3 is more forgiving when you do big mistakes as I said before. All you explain there about input smoothing goes in the same direction of mine.

Maybe in an alien pace (like a racing driver) input smoothing on PCARS3 makes more difference in the way you have to drive but in a "1'45.6 GT3 at barcelone" pace the way you have to drive on ACC and PCARS3 is the same. That's what's I said from the beggining. Not with bigs mistakes (as in an arcade way of playing) and I don't know at aliens levels (because this is not my level).

You can turn on all assists and aids in every sim and it goes like an arcade as well.

I’m not talking about big mistakes, how many times do I have to repeat that before you will stop with the same nonsense, and no turning on all the assists in AC, ACC or even the first two PCs will not result in the same degree of assistance, you are quite simply making things up now.

Take the Lotus 72T for a drive and tell me with a straight face that it doesn’t have input smoothing at every stage of correction!

Then again you did once claim that cornering in GT6 was more realistic than AC, so anything is possible

 

[oneloops]

I’m not talking about big mistakes, how many times do I have to repeat that before you will stop with the same nonsense, and no turning on all the assists in AC, ACC or even the first two PCs will not result in the same degree of assistance, you are quite simply making things up now.

Take the Lotus 72T for a drive and tell me with a straight face that it doesn’t have input smoothing at every stage of correction!

Turning on all the assists in different games will not result of assistance in the same degree obviously (and I've never affirmed that) but it moves away from simulation.

Stop claiming obvious affirmations that I haven't said.

Again with the Lotus 72T ! When I've said that there is not input smoothing in PCARS3 ? Never I said that.

 

[Scaff]

Turning on all the assists in different games will not result of assistance in the same degree obviously (and I've never affirmed that) but it moves away from simulation.

And yet that’s not what you said....


You can turn on all assists and aids in every sim and it goes like an arcade as well.


... watch you don’t hurt your back moving those goalposts

 

[Ske]

Anyone else having major issues with straight line stability, to the point of oscillation?
Almost like the wheel (T300 in my case) is hyper-sensitive around the center.

I'm running quite high FFB settings to try and get some feel out of it...

 

[oneloops]

And yet that’s not what you said....


You can turn on all assists and aids in every sim and it goes like an arcade as well.


... watch you don’t hurt your back moving those goalposts

But not at the same level of assistance obviously.

I don't know why you put in my mouth things that I never said, again not at the same level of assintance. I've never said "at the same level of assistance".