Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

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sgohsixthree
Unless it is a port of Project Cars Go, I would say the next full-fledged version of PCars will only be nextgen/pc, not current gen.

If you recall there was a lot of talk about pCars2 coming to Switch, we know how that turned out.

If there’s anything I learned from the last two games and the hoopla leading up to them, it’s don’t put much faith in the tidbits. Too much gray area and too much speculation to warrant anything concrete.
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I remember when they originally suggested that PC1 was also going to be released on the ps3 & 360 along side the one & ps4, then they thought better of it.
 
Releasing on PS4/X1 doesn't really have to be that much harder than supporting a wide array of PC hardware, just turn down various graphics options and use a reduced tire/damage model for AI as needed, and perhaps limit grid sizes a bit more. That trend already started with the release of Pro console with options for Visual/FPS preferences.

Some rumor articles suggest that the Xbox will be ready to launch ahead of the PS5, but 3rd party games won't be released until all platforms are available to avoid sales losses. I also remember reading that Xbox wasn't worried about not having a large launch catalog of games, but happy to release a couple of new games each month for players to sink into. Even the next Forza game might not be a launch title. If that were true, it would be pretty enticing to beat them to launch. And who knows when the next Gran Turismo will launch.
 
Jtheripper
I hope the ai will be smooth natural in their movements and will use the real physics performance of each car while racing, not fake it, even if need be less detailed physics than the player a little.
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Supposedly the AI in pC2 is "the player's physics but simplified" but boy does it seem alien at times. "Simplified" seems to almost mean simplified in the sense that MarioKart is a simpler version of PC2's physics... I mean gravity still pulls you down, right? I'm pretty convinced by this point that the AI mechanically experiences no bumps nor elevation changes of any kind short of maybe sausage curbs(yet they are pathologically terrified of actual jumps), and that they only have one tire whatever the graphics say - their pace just changes from "Dry" to "Damp" to "Wet" to "Flooded" on a sliding scale whether they pit or not. We know they don't experience cold tires like we do which causes some annoying issues, but their tires do degrade at an astronomically higher rate than hours which tends to make them very slow at the end of a fuel stint while we could double or triple stint the same tires(you can see this same effect if you let Bob drive - and while you're at it watch his molten brakes light up the night if you've closed the ducts to keep any heat in them for yourself).

So yeah, bringing more of that at least somewhat in line with what the player deals with would go a long way. And smoother movements would be great, the way they jerk around sometimes is just plain dangerous at best. They also need to learn to be able to actually see the player in front of them... currently it seems like if you are 2 inches off the line they expect they don't even know you are there and just shove you out of the way if you go any slower than they want to. The other major behavior thing is that if they can't find a way to make them act properly when getting lapped or when not on a hot-lap in practice... then don't make them drive any differently at all. What they do now is pretty much the exact opposite of what they should be doing: swerving all over the place, veering off-track, but trying to maintain full pace and then instantly attempting to pass you back once you go by... before immediately swerving over in front of you and slamming on the brakes. Either let them pull over(smoothly) and lift slightly, then let you get some space... or just drive like normal and let us overtake them with predictable behavior.

Fix all that and I'd even be willing to forgive them blatantly cutting now and then :lol:

[/unintended rant]
 
Morgoth_666
Supposedly the AI in pC2 is "the player's physics but simplified" but boy does it seem alien at times. "Simplified" seems to almost mean simplified in the sense that MarioKart is a simpler version of PC2's physics... I mean gravity still pulls you down, right? I'm pretty convinced by this point that the AI mechanically experiences no bumps nor elevation changes of any kind short of maybe sausage curbs(yet they are pathologically terrified of actual jumps), and that they only have one tire whatever the graphics say - their pace just changes from "Dry" to "Damp" to "Wet" to "Flooded" on a sliding scale whether they pit or not. We know they don't experience cold tires like we do which causes some annoying issues, but their tires do degrade at an astronomically higher rate than hours which tends to make them very slow at the end of a fuel stint while we could double or triple stint the same tires(you can see this same effect if you let Bob drive - and while you're at it watch his molten brakes light up the night if you've closed the ducts to keep any heat in them for yourself).

So yeah, bringing more of that at least somewhat in line with what the player deals with would go a long way. And smoother movements would be great, the way they jerk around sometimes is just plain dangerous at best. They also need to learn to be able to actually see the player in front of them... currently it seems like if you are 2 inches off the line they expect they don't even know you are there and just shove you out of the way if you go any slower than they want to. The other major behavior thing is that if they can't find a way to make them act properly when getting lapped or when not on a hot-lap in practice... then don't make them drive any differently at all. What they do now is pretty much the exact opposite of what they should be doing: swerving all over the place, veering off-track, but trying to maintain full pace and then instantly attempting to pass you back once you go by... before immediately swerving over in front of you and slamming on the brakes. Either let them pull over(smoothly) and lift slightly, then let you get some space... or just drive like normal and let us overtake them with predictable behavior.

Fix all that and I'd even be willing to forgive them blatantly cutting now and then :lol:

[/unintended rant]
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Hehehe yeah, it's not a rant, just observations. Well i was just wondering too if the ai use different tires, and which ones.
Because i was trying different tires on an older car, for example, the old race or rally escort, and trying the street, then all terrain tires..., and they are slippery as hell. The ai was much faster, so i thought it can only be the tires if their is a reason beyond imbalance of the game.
But the other choices are wet or all weather which should be even worse, or automatic by weather.
So i decided try the automatic, and voila, now the ai is slow lol compared to me, and the tires grip much more.

Now im wondering which tire does the game choose lol, when it's automatic?
Cause it ain't any i can see in the selections. Not clear all this.

Also with the lotus 98t, as i posted in the pc2 thread, when using historic tires, the car barely oversteer even when the tires spin like a dragster, but on slicks it does as would expect.

Yeah the swerving breaks the immersion also. Someone said if you up the aggression they won't swerve as much, but makes me worry they will bump into me more.
 
Jtheripper
Hehehe yeah, it's not a rant, just observations. Well i was just wondering too if the ai use different tires, and which ones.
Because i was trying different tires on an older car, for example, the old race or rally escort, and trying the street, then all terrain tires..., and they are slippery as hell. The ai was much faster, so i thought it can only be the tires if their is a reason beyond imbalance of the game.
But the other choices are wet or all weather which should be even worse, or automatic by weather.
So i decided try the automatic, and voila, now the ai is slow lol compared to me, and the tires grip much more.

Now im wondering which tire does the game choose lol, when it's automatic?
Cause it ain't any i can see in the selections. Not clear all this.

Also with the lotus 98t, as i posted in the pc2 thread, when using historic tires, the car barely oversteer even when the tires spin like a dragster, but on slicks it does as would expect.

Yeah the swerving breaks the immersion also. Someone said if you up the aggression they won't swerve as much, but makes me worry they will bump into me more.
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You can see the tires the AI is running in replays or if you go to the garage and view them with the monitor. It does seem to be accurate as in some cases you'll see different cars in the same class on different tires. Always the same tires on each make of car though. I assume they always use Automatic by Weather. I've never noticed Automatic giving you a different tire performance than the options you have but I haven't used Automatic in a long time now, that could be interesting. I wonder if it's possible they updated the tires on some cars but not the AI's version and Automatic gives you the AI tires?
 
Morgoth_666
You can see the tires the AI is running in replays or if you go to the garage and view them with the monitor. It does seem to be accurate as in some cases you'll see different cars in the same class on different tires. Always the same tires on each make of car though. I assume they always use Automatic by Weather. I've never noticed Automatic giving you a different tire performance than the options you have but I haven't used Automatic in a long time now, that could be interesting. I wonder if it's possible they updated the tires on some cars but not the AI's version and Automatic gives you the AI tires?
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Maybe its the all weather tires the ai used, ill try it later see if it grips like with the auto choice.
Yeah if the ai supposedly uses the same physics it doesnt always look like it lol to me.
 
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I know that AI get hints.
From making cars in Assetto Corsa, the AI have their own files. In what is called hints, the AI get values for things such as aero, ultra_grip, brake_hint, ect.
The AI will never be as good as a human driver so they get advantages that are designed to keep them in line with what a person can do.
While it does matter what tyres they're on, it kinda doesn't. They will get more aero so they can corner, more tyre, brake, and do this all while knowing the calculated limit. The problem in PC2 is that the cars are too different from their human controlling counterpart. Some AI cars can do things you'll never be able to do with out blasting straight through a corner into a wall or spinning out.
It's frustrating. It seems they simply didn;t spend enough time equalizing this and on top of that making class by class by class consistent with the AI setting for us. Example is having to turn Formula C AI way down to be competitive while you can rip through a Ginetta GT5 race at a setting around 100.
In order to keep sanity, I usually do a minimal practice before a race, then no qualify and just start last. While practicing, I like my time to be say, within the top 6 - 7. That way I know I'll be competitive.
 
Yeah they cheat in some way seems to me, make up time in ways not natural, make sudden moves that are not feasible for the car they use, like most games i guess.

Sometimes or often ai will be fast on straights or corner entry cause for them it doesn't matter if it's hard to judge or see. Then they will be too slow in the middle of curves or on exit, etc.
Or sometimes take a non standard/ optimum line cause you are there but then can still take the curve at the same speed or exit at the same time.
That's why i like it in games that make it feel believable and dependable or trustworthy to a point and challenging as well. Even if it isn't so high fidelity or deep. Like in nh3, the ai is pretty dependable and keeps a smooth speed and lines so you can race them near with no worry, and still challenging to pass cause they keep their speed as much as can while still avoiding you but smoothly.
Also in AC they seem to be limited more to what each car can do, and do it smoothly.

Well seems it was all-weather, i just tried it and it's same as auto.
At least i know i can choose it myself, but it isn't clear often what each tire is exactly or from what period, to me at least. And which is better.
 
On the same topic, I hope race starts can be improved now that Codies are on the scene. F1 races start well, with cars avoiding each other and not slowing down ridiculously to get round the first corner; this isn't the case in pCARS2. I really hope I won't be able to divebomb half the field at Monza turn 1 as they struggle to get through the corner in the next game.
 
I hope they will change the Pit Stops interface in PC3. I think it is unnecessary complicated and hard to use during race. I know there are pit stop strategies but it is sometimes hard to predict dynamic changes to race. I think it would be nice to have option to have pit stop similar to GT Sport... When you can quickly select tires and stop refueling dynamically if you think it's enough. I know it would probably block option to have manual drive in pit stop but on the other hand using this contextual menu isn't usefull either while driving.

What do you think about it?
 
MroczMR
I hope they will change the Pit Stops interface in PC3. I think it is unnecessary complicated and hard to use during race. I know there are pit stop strategies but it is sometimes hard to predict dynamic changes to race. I think it would be nice to have option to have pit stop similar to GT Sport... When you can quickly select tires and stop refueling dynamically if you think it's enough. I know it would probably block option to have manual drive in pit stop but on the other hand using this contextual menu isn't usefull either while driving.

What do you think about it?
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I agree but I think there isn't enough to change. In real life, they often have tyre pressure changes to change the balance of the car and the only way you can do that is through the preset strategies.
 
I don't have a problem with using the ICM menu for pitting(it does take some practice to not get distracted/lose time), but it could use some tweaks. Adding tire pressure adjustments would be a nice touch but I suppose it could overcomplicate things further. Probably should make an extra sub-menu layer for it. Being able to hold down a button to change things like fuel or T/C more quickly would be a major plus. I also think all the menus should wrap from the bottom to the top like the main menu already does. Any time you have to hit buttons over and over and over is bad for things like this. Maybe an option to control how long it stays up to suit people's preference would be nice. I also don't think any changes you make to a pit strategy should be saved once the race is over, that is a really annoying feature. Keep them for the rest of the race, but don't change the permanent presets.

Having to re-set the tire pressures for every strategy each time you change cars is really unwieldy, but then again that can likely change track-to-track or for different weather at the same track so it's probably not something that you won't have to do anyway(unless they had an option to set that globally if desired). I'd like to have at least a couple more slots to save strategies, and not being able to overwrite one when you've filled all the slots until you delete one is stupid. The measurements for pressures need to match your setting from everywhere else too. I know dividing by 14.5 isn't that hard with a calculator but there's no reason you should have to do it. All the measurements anywhere in the game should be consistent. I think in the first game it was the other way around, so the people who are used to using bar had to figure out what those silly psi numbers meant.

Being able to cancel fuel and damage when you realize you don't want to wait would be a nice addition. There should also at least be some sort of override to the pit release if they can't fix it getting stuck... so if you're sitting for maybe 15 seconds and no new cars are blocking your release it will let you(or a bot) drive away regardless. You can already drive through each other because getting pit lane perfect is nearly impossible so at that point just let it go.

Oh and they have to do away with the whole "pit box occupied" thing. On most if not all tracks there's no reason why any cars should be using the same pit stall as there are more stalls than cars, and often when it says that it's really not even your box that is occupied but one near you. It ruined countless races in the first game(probably still does if people use auto pit lane), and I'm pretty sure it still causes problems for the bots and possibly Bob. Figure out a way to deal with stacking pits, spread the cars out to use all the pit stalls, or just let it go ahead and pit you on top of each other. Anything is better than "oops sorry race over DNF due to the game being stupid."

Man I type too much.
 
Morgoth_666
Oh and they have to do away with the whole "pit box occupied" thing. On most if not all tracks there's no reason why any cars should be using the same pit stall as there are more stalls than cars, and often when it says that it's really not even your box that is occupied but one near you. It ruined countless races in the first game(probably still does if people use auto pit lane), and I'm pretty sure it still causes problems for the bots and possibly Bob. Figure out a way to deal with stacking pits, spread the cars out to use all the pit stalls, or just let it go ahead and pit you on top of each other. Anything is better than "oops sorry race over DNF due to the game being stupid."
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Do you not watch much motorsport? Occupied pits is a real thing. Even in F1 where there are only 20 cars on the grid they do not spread them down the pitlane to allow easier pitstops. Each team gets 2 adjacent garages and there is only enough space in front of the 2 garages for one car to have a pirstop. Nor do I believe there are more pit stalls than cars at most tracks (presuming we are talking about a pit stall and not a garage).
 
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David Wright
Do you not watch much motorsport? Occupied pits is a real thing. Even in F1 where there are only 20 cars on the grid they do not spread them down the pitlane to allow easier pitstops. Each team gets 2 adjacent garages and there is only enough space in front of the 2 garages for one car to have a pirstop. Nor do I believe there are more pit stalls than cars at most tracks (presuming we are talking about a pit stall and not a garage).
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I'm probably overreacting, your right. In F1 cars do share pit boxes, yes. In some other series they don't, but they may squeeze the pits closer together which can cause other issues(I suppose PC2 auto-resolves that with the way it slides you into position even if it looks awkward). I'm assuming the garage spots are each tied to a specific pit, so it could partly be a case of how it assigns the garage spots. You're right though, most of the tracks don't actually have 30+ pit stalls. A few of them do but still double up... some of them are really short but also won't let you run as many cars.

The "pit box occupied" message also quite frequently does not actually seem to mean that your own pit box is occupied. I've come in plenty often when the warning is still up, and disregarding the times you can't see your pit all the way down it is still more common that no one pulls out from it on the way in - there's usually just a car in the pit before yours if anything. Probably if they are too close together it triggers it. Apparently a bot coming in overrides your stop(even if you've already called your crew out) but that does make sense since you have the ability to be more flexible.

I don't have a problem with pit boxes being shared or with having to wait. That's just racing. My problem is with the game deciding your pit is blocked when it is not, and also not having a mechanism for coming in and waiting in an emergency(and preventing/dealing with cars getting stuck). I've not used autodrive to test that so maybe I'm wrong there too and they have added a queue but I've also never seen a bot waiting, they just keep driving until they run out of gas. I'd think it might be too much to ask to make the bots alone wait, but having autodrive for the player means there really should be an alternate version for it(which you would think the bots could use too) since players who don't want to drive the lane still are quite capable of knowing when they really need to come in. I run at the full Nürburgring a lot so that obviously brings out the worst of fuel and damage issues.

They've definitely lessened the problem by letting us drive ourselves if we want to and I believe they've made the bots pit a lap earlier which gives them a second chance. Maybe it's not as bad as I think it is and I'm still traumatized from pCARS 1 not letting you pit 3 or 4 laps in a row(or sometimes forever if a car retired to a nearby garage) with no one actually in your pit box or one that can't leave. I think my recent trouble with cars getting stuck at Sakitto brought some of those memories back.

I guess the issue is that in the real world there are always inventible ways around it, but in the game world everything has to stick to clearly defined rules - particularly for stuff that isn't directly player-controlled.
 
MroczMR
I hope they will change the Pit Stops interface in PC3. I think it is unnecessary complicated and hard to use during race. I know there are pit stop strategies but it is sometimes hard to predict dynamic changes to race. I think it would be nice to have option to have pit stop similar to GT Sport... When you can quickly select tires and stop refueling dynamically if you think it's enough. I know it would probably block option to have manual drive in pit stop but on the other hand using this contextual menu isn't usefull either while driving.

What do you think about it?
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That so long they ain't bugged again, specially regarding fuel then good.

BTW how many months have passed since Bell announced the game?
 
I hope they will add more street circuits like long beach, really love that kind of bumpy city track.
I can't think which though right now, anyone know of good ones?
Also hope they will keep having a wide variety of road and race cars.
 
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Jtheripper
I hope they will add more street circuits like long beach, really love that kind of bumpy city track.
I can't think which though right now, anyone know of good ones?
Also hope they will keep having a wide variety of road and race cars.
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It would be good to have some of the Australian V8 Supercar tracks, Adelaide, Oran Park, the Gold Coast to name a few.
 
Sebring would be fun, not exactly street circuit i guess, old airport i think.
Also sunset peninsula infield raceway is fun, i remember it from forza4 i think. Oups seems it's a fictional track, seemed like could be real, oh well, i guess not that one.
 
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I was thinking that since with the PS5 SSD is so fast that games wont have no loading screen its gonna be so much easier to change cars and tracks.

Super excited for the possibility of pc3 on the ps5 just imagine you wanna change your current track and car and it all happens within just a few seconds.:bowdown:
 
As if we are not already frustrated with the whole pandemic and lock-down, the lack of news on Project CARS 3/R is killing me even more !

I am not looking forward to PS5, i am immune to PD/GT7 hype-train and lack-thereof, but it seems that i am very excited and can't stand the silence from the SMS.... @IanBell

Please someone !! drop us some news or a bone here... What's going with PC3/R ??!!

Something for us to look forward to... a CoViD-19 vaccine wont do, it's not enough... i need fresh PC3/R news...
 

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