Purists racing in cockpit view vs exterior views

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Sloppy Shades

Premium
573
United States
Daytona Beach
sloppysmusic
With regard to bumper cam and contact with the car ahead, you can clearly see in this video that the audio of the shunts is not matched by visual contact for the guy using it. Of course it was deliberate here but the first one especially without the audio you night not know you had made contact, or at least you wouldn't know you were about to.

 
2,632
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Btw my last 3 races (Tsukuba BMW E30 M3) were against A/S and I won by 5-10 seconds each race
Was this another of your moral victories? As 3 wins against A/S, as a B rated driver, would net you much more than the 2000 DR you gained in your last playing day.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
Let's be frank here...

If you are a 'purist', you aren't playing GTS. You are playing iRacing, or rFactor, or maybe PC2.

If you are a 'purist' you aren't playing in any view other than an Oculus etc..

Anything else is simply one form of terrible compromise over another. Terrible restrictions in FoV compared to real life. Terrible compromises in tire model and physics. Terrible compromises in application of real racing rules and behaviors. Terrible sounds. Terrible collision physics. Terrible off track physics.

So, please... enough with the 'purist' baloney. I'll tell you what really drives the 'I'm a purist, and I think that everyone should use my personal favorite view/aids/tires/cars and all others should be banned!' hogwash. It's usually 'I'm getting beat, and I hate the thought that anyone is doing it different to how I'm doing it because that obviously means their difference to me is what is making them faster..!'

There are bad drivers out there in ALL view modes.

You want 'purity' in a view in GTS? Get a PSVR and be prepared to be unable to race anything but your ghost. Because that is the only view that actually is pure.

I wonder what all these 'purists' that want to wall themselves off from us 'impure' types are going to use as an excuse once everyone is on a VR rig in a few years? Better start coming up with something, because you are still going to get beat, some of the time..!

Well said. In the end, the controller and the camera angle are just tools to achieve the fastest time. Though these tools contribute to the end result, they are simply things that people get acclimated to and utilize for their objective. A bad carpenter blames their tools... yada yada yada.
 
2,632
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Well said. In the end, the controller and the camera angle are just tools to achieve the fastest time. Though these tools contribute to the end result, they are simply things that people get acclimated to and utilize for their objective. A bad carpenter blames their tools... yada yada yada.
True. Which is why it is absolutely bizarre that this "professional" carpenter is blaming other carpenter's tools who are quite happy with their tools.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
True. Which is why it is absolutely bizarre that this "professional" carpenter is blaming other carpenter's tools who are quite happy with their tools.

His insistence on what I'm experiencing is a bizarre argument position as well. The game has replays, I know exactly how close I'm racing against other people which is evident when I'm able to rub people ever so gently without incurring a penalty.

The only critical downside to the cockpit view is simply the challenge of tracking the apex of the oncoming turn. Clearly cockpit drivers overcome this challenge (since it's really about looking at the tiny corner of the screen). So I don't see why it's so insane to think that chase cam drivers can handle managing their front end.

Ironically, I know my front end better on the chase cam then I know the front end of my own real life car. If I had a garage I'd have a tennis ball on a string hanging from the ceiling (well, probably not but you get the point). So it's funny that he's claiming the superior front bumper awareness of the cockpit view when 90% of the population still can't figure out where their front bumper is in their real life cockpit view.
 
114
Paulzx
Out of interest does anybody know of any drivers that regularly are in the top 10 that use cockpit view? Just interested really?

I watch a few drivers on YouTube, especially top drivers and not seen one use it, chase cam, bumper and bonnet views yes, but not seen any cockpit users. You can’t tell what view is used on top 10 replays so as I said just genuinely interested if there are some? Links would be good if someone has them.

I think you'll find that people at the top of the times lists will all be using exterior views just like they do in F12017 and most likely all the other racing games. If you're trying to set a competitive lap time, as a cockpit driver you would probably start in that view and when you've hit your limit you'll go to exterior view, probably bumper cam, because even if you can eek out a few more tenths, on a leader board that will make a big difference, so you have to do it. And it is faster over a hot lap, just being able to see an unobstructed view of the kerbs and track, makes it that bit faster - sometimes surprisingly faster
 
1,150
United Kingdom
Devon UK
I'm currently practicing with a Nurburgring 24hr race and I have told myself I will do it in cockpit view (not really used it yet). Well, flip me over and call me Sally if it isn't bloody awesome around the nordschleife. I put the height up a couple of notches, push it forward 2 or 3. Visibility and perception of movement is really good.

I might chicken out and go back to bumper cam for the race though. :nervous:
 
905
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I think you'll find that people at the top of the times lists will all be using exterior views just like they do in F12017 and most likely all the other racing games. If you're trying to set a competitive lap time, as a cockpit driver you would probably start in that view and when you've hit your limit you'll go to exterior view, probably bumper cam, because even if you can eek out a few more tenths, on a leader board that will make a big difference, so you have to do it. And it is faster over a hot lap, just being able to see an unobstructed view of the kerbs and track, makes it that bit faster - sometimes surprisingly faster

Certainly I have not seen any of the top guys using it mostly bonnet view, but I do maintain the view with the most advantage is the view you are most comfortable with.

I would be interested to see if any top guys do use it but it seems it’s probably not. As an example I use cockpit view and I managed to set the number 1 EU free practice time for fia Manufacturers Interlagos on Saturday which stood till about 2-3 ish in the afternoon. I got knocked down the list but I did go back and knock another tenth or so of my time. Was my time beaten coz of the view used or were they just faster, probably the latter.

I would really like to see if a consistently fast top guy/girl if they can set their normal times in different views, my guess is they would and it’s down to natural talent and speed as opposed to advantages from different views?
 
13,899
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
I would really like to see if a consistently fast top guy/girl if they can set their normal times in different views, my guess is they would and it’s down to natural talent and speed as opposed to advantages from different views?
Not on this game, but for me on basically any other game, I can not match my speed if I use chase cam. I've been so accustomed to interior view for the past decade that the chase cam feels like there's a slight delay to it. When it comes to using a pad, there's a different type of finesse required for chase, compared to interior.
 

Winnie847

Premium
1,032
United States
Austin, TX USA
Winnie847
I think you'll find that people at the top of the times lists will all be using exterior views just like they do in F12017 and most likely all the other racing games. If you're trying to set a competitive lap time, as a cockpit driver you would probably start in that view and when you've hit your limit you'll go to exterior view, probably bumper cam, because even if you can eek out a few more tenths, on a leader board that will make a big difference, so you have to do it. And it is faster over a hot lap, just being able to see an unobstructed view of the kerbs and track, makes it that bit faster - sometimes surprisingly faster

I maybe wrong but I think @MINKIHL uses cockpit view. Also not sure if he is normally top 10, but I know he's pretty dang fast. An alien in my book.
 
2,933
Canada
London, Ontario
voodoovaj
With regard to bumper cam and contact with the car ahead, you can clearly see in this video that the audio of the shunts is not matched by visual contact for the guy using it. Of course it was deliberate here but the first one especially without the audio you night not know you had made contact, or at least you wouldn't know you were about to.


I love seeing my liveries in use!!! :D

Back to your discussion ;)
 
2,933
Canada
London, Ontario
voodoovaj
Let's be frank here...

If you are a 'purist', you aren't playing GTS. You are playing iRacing, or rFactor, or maybe PC2.

If you are a 'purist' you aren't playing in any view other than an Oculus etc..

Anything else is simply one form of terrible compromise over another. Terrible restrictions in FoV compared to real life. Terrible compromises in tire model and physics. Terrible compromises in application of real racing rules and behaviors. Terrible sounds. Terrible collision physics. Terrible off track physics.

So, please... enough with the 'purist' baloney. I'll tell you what really drives the 'I'm a purist, and I think that everyone should use my personal favorite view/aids/tires/cars and all others should be banned!' hogwash. It's usually 'I'm getting beat, and I hate the thought that anyone is doing it different to how I'm doing it because that obviously means their difference to me is what is making them faster..!'

There are bad drivers out there in ALL view modes.

You want 'purity' in a view in GTS? Get a PSVR and be prepared to be unable to race anything but your ghost. Because that is the only view that actually is pure.

I wonder what all these 'purists' that want to wall themselves off from us 'impure' types are going to use as an excuse once everyone is on a VR rig in a few years? Better start coming up with something, because you are still going to get beat, some of the time..!

As a firm believer that the "purist" talk is all nonsense, I would go so far as to discount the entire virtual experience.

If you want to be a purist, sign up for a track day. I completely understand elements degrading a person's immersion in the experience, it's the same reason I dislike VGT's in the groups. That said, it needs to be balanced with best performance, and that is an individual thing.

I personally love the cockpit view, but I only use it when I am not really competing. For the dailies or competitive lobbies, I simply can't see well enough from the cockpit. For others, it works fine, but not for me.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
When it comes to using a pad, there's a different type of finesse required for chase, compared to interior.

There's definitely different visual cues. I know on the chase cam, I am actively watching how the car's balance settles and unsettles lining it up correctly for each turn. In cockpit I rely more on the audio cues for knowing when the car breaks loose and even to judge how far away other cars are. Front bumper management ironically doesn't change for me regardless of the POV since I'm relying on my assessment of exit speeds to presume how close I can get to other cars.

(.. and Death From Above is a killer band)
 
13,899
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
There's definitely different visual cues. I know on the chase cam, I am actively watching how the car's balance settles and unsettles lining it up correctly for each turn. In cockpit I rely more on the audio cues for knowing when the car breaks loose and even to judge how far away other cars are. Front bumper management ironically doesn't change for me regardless of the POV since I'm relying on my assessment of exit speeds to presume how close I can get to other cars.

(.. and Death From Above is a killer band)
Because I've used nothing but interior view for as long as I can remember, I never bothered learning the visual ques that is required when in chase cam. However, the more I use it the more i get acclimated to it, and the more confident I get. It'll be a while before I'm able to match my speed 1:1, or likely wont even happen at all since I really wont be using the view lol.

and you're one of the few people to recognize what my avatar is :lol: 👍
 
786
United States
United States
I want you to use whichever view keeps you from hitting me.

None of them do. Only the fear of immediate kicking achieves that, which is why it was easy to find clean racing in GT6 (where we didn't lose our 🤬 minds and pretend an automated system ever could penalize properly) and so hard in Sport Mode.