Query About Manual\Power Steering

Chelsea_is_dead

(Banned)
8
How much harder is it to do a 180 on a car with manual steering (like a muscle car from the 60s) as one with power steering (like a supercar like, say, the McLaren F1)? I'm doing research for something and I figure you guys would know so... Thanks!!!
 
In general, turning the wheel of a car without power steering while you're stopped is really difficult. Like, you might have to use your body weight to help you out. But beyond that, the weight distribution of a car has a huge effect on how difficult it is.

An old muscle car, with that huge engine and tons of weight, would be extremely hard to turn while stopped. Some more modern FWD cars, like a CRX or instance, might not have power steering, and they're also really hard to turn because about 60% of the car's weight is over the front tires.

Some mid-engine cars, like an Elise (which don't have power steering), are relatively easy to turn because they don't have much weight to begin with, and most of that is on the rear of the car. An old lady probably couldn't turn it, but it still wouldn't be too bothersome.

But the effort required decreases greatly once the car starts rolling. While cruising down the road at 25 mph you might not even realize the car didn't have power steering. In fact, some new electronically-assisted steering racks turn off the assist completely at speed.
 
For an idea, roll down a slight hill like a driveway or something with the engine off, that's what it's like without power steering.
 
Good point, Casio. You could even just turn the key to accessory which will disengage the steering column lock allowing you to turn the wheel with no assist. Try it. It's not fun.
 
For an idea, roll down a slight hill like a driveway or something with the engine off, that's what it's like without power steering.

From what I've experienced, thats not a valid comparison at all. A car with PS is only meant to be operated with the pump on, therefore most PS equipped cars are almost unbearable to drive without power steering. Cars without power steering have a properly geared rack and pinion so steering feel isn't overly heavy without any sort of mechanical assisting. My non PS 1988 mr2 is just as easy to steer, if not easier (not to mention how much better the feel and response is either!) then my PS equipped 2006 Subaru wagon.

But- my non power steering car doesn't have an engine sitting over the front wheels either. :)
 
How much harder is it to do a 180 on a car with manual steering (like a muscle car from the 60s) as one with power steering (like a supercar like, say, the McLaren F1)? I'm doing research for something and I figure you guys would know so... Thanks!!!

From a stop:
Turn a little in either direction, rev to 4,000 RPM, dump clutch, get off the gas, straighten wheel, clutch in, brake hard.

Makes no difference what kind of steering you have :P


And damn that sounds a lot more boring on paper than it is actually doing it.
 
Another big factor in a non-PS equipped car is the tire size and width. If you've got some 245/35 - 18"s on your car, it'll be much harder to turn at low speeds than the same vehicle with, say 195/45 - 18"s.

And backspace has it correct. There really is no comparison between a non-PS car and a PS car with the key off. A car with manual steering has a differently geared steering rack, and thus makes it bearable to turn - But by doing this, you've also got to turn the wheel more to get the same amount of angle as you would in a PS-equipped car.
 
Turning the wheel more isn't always the case, though. I've got an '02 WRX and an '87 MR2, for example, and the MR2's rack is much "tighter" than the Subaru's. I can run most tracks or windy roads without ever moving my hands from 9 and 3, except to shift. The Subaru requires quite a bit of shifting hands back and forth on the wheel.
 
Have any of you tried driving a 1960 Chevy with no power steering and a tiny aftermarket wheel?

It sucked. I felt like the captain of an old naval destroyer, turning the helm many times around to go one way, and then many times back to straighten out. It built a small amount of muscle though.
 
My old '93 VW Fox Wolfsburg didn't have power steering and I didn't have much of a problem with it at all. Of course, it was a fairly small car, with fairly small tires (175/70-13), but I never had a problem cranking the wheel even at slower speeds.

Now our '68 Camaro on the other hand?

...Moving that around between the barn and the garage isn't easy...
 
..Moving that around between the barn and the garage isn't easy...

The faster you move, the easier it gets...

What REALLY sucks is when one is driving a PS equipped car, and the PS doesn't work. Not only is one wrangling the car, one is also wrestling with the PS pump and its ilk.
 
As another 87 MR2 owner, I have to say alot comes into play, such as ratios, etc. My old MR2 was much easier to steer, without the power steering, than a Kia Rio I drove with no power steering.

Or there was the old Ford truck I drove... good god that was a pain in the ***.

But you'll always notice a bit more resistance at a stop with a manual steering car, no matter what.
 
For an idea, roll down a slight hill like a driveway or something with the engine off, that's what it's like without power steering.
Not exactly, you are working against a rack full of fluid, not just the tires.

But really, it's not that hard, maybe at first, but you get used to it. Good luck with a heavy car though, with a light car you just grab the wheel as far as you possibly can, turn sharply(you have to turn before you start braking), press the clutch, your brakes, and pull your handbrake.

Braking makes the weight go forward and helps with turning and getting the back around. Don't press them too hard though, they have to be able to rotate so the car can turn. Once you get around 90 degrees, let go of the brakes so the front wheels can roll freely.

Try it in the rain first, on a smooth new-ish road. Old roads suck for these kinds of things.
 
Isn't this what's called a J-turn? Never, ever try it on a public road. There's a genuine risk that the car will roll over, or cause another serious accident.
 
Isn't this what's called a J-turn? Never, ever try it on a public road. There's a genuine risk that the car will roll over, or cause another serious accident.
Well, you really shouldn't try this in a minivan or suv.

Not on public roads though.👎
 
Awww... c'mon, roll-over? From a stop? :lol:

Most fun you can have in a pick-up with LSD. Yeah, I'll admit it, there are some things rear-wheel-drive does better.
 
Awww... c'mon, roll-over? From a stop? :lol:

Most fun you can have in a pick-up with LSD. Yeah, I'll admit it, there are some things rear-wheel-drive does better.
I think people in this thread have different ideas on what a 180 is.

For me, that is driving in a straight line, then pulling the parking brake and turning.

For you, it appears to be standing still, turning, then doing a burnout and getting the car to end up the other way.

That is what I call a donut.
 
I just thought he was talking about turning around in a parking lot.
 
Well My RX-7 doesn't have ps aswell but at a stop it doesn't seem to be too hard to steer at all, then again it's miniscule engine is actually behind the front wheels so that could help a bit, I can only imagine it being easier on an MR car such as an MR2.
 
Just checked the all-mighty wikipedia. I was thinking of a bootleg turn, rather than a j-turn.

Chelsea_is_dead: Was it this manouver you were thinking of? On the subject of power steering, I'm backing up what Perfect Balance said about PS - I've driven cars with, without and also one with broken power steering. The latter is not recommended unless you want a workout no gym can offer.

A bit of trivia too: Just about every normal, everyday car does have it. It became normal around the early 90's (I think). But the McLaren F1 on the other hand, the fastest and most expensive car of that time, did not.;)
 
Oh... okay, if it's a rolling turn... then the actual gearing of the rack makes more of a difference, personally.
 
It depends on what kind of car your driving, for example the old vw bug I drove wasn't bad to drive w/ out power steering but my uncles 1996 Chevy Silverado thats on huge mud tires and is jacked up a lot is really hard. It is close to impossible to turn the wheel when stopped.
 
My Cavalier dosen't have power steering, and I don't miss it at all. It's so much easier to drive it then say, my mom's Ranger, which is as accurate as a Cesna with a wing torn off, going down the road. PS makes the steering to floaty and nervous, like the rack is drunk or something.
 
My Cavalier dosen't have power steering, and I don't miss it at all. It's so much easier to drive it then say, my mom's Ranger, which is as accurate as a Cesna with a wing torn off, going down the road. PS makes the steering to floaty and nervous, like the rack is drunk or something.
QFT, I hate my powersteering. Fortunately, my larger diameter and wider tires helped a bit. I'm hoping a suspension will clear the rest up.

If not, a sports steering wheel should also help.
 
That's what I was thinking, too much sidewall, not enough wheel. But it's my mom's truck and she'd end my life if I messed with it.
 
Back