Ricey or Racey?

  • Thread starter NSX-R
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Then race your pants off. For a street car, it would be mostly for looks.

But a flat-cambered highspeed turn needs the downforce, which you likely will find at a track ;)
 

McLaren

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I consider it rice because it's not necessary. Unless you're driving track every weekend, you'll never need a wing like that for street driving. Who corners that hard at 80+mph during daily driving.
Kudos on this post.👍

After this thread, I went to lookin' around for racing parts for my own M. However, you have made me realise that none of it will be needed and rarely used. I rarely have time for the tracks anymore, let alone racing them.
 

Dave A

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If you intend to race the car then sure go for it, it's adding usefull functionality to the car. For road use, I totally agree with exigeracer's comment just quoted above.
 

Wolfe

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exigeracer has a point, but that same logic could be applied to the purchasing of a sportscar in general...if you aren't going to drive fast, or take it to a track often, why bother buying one?

Like it or not, for many people spoilers serve more of a purpose than just to provide downforce, and if you set performance aside, all you're left with is opinions. NSX-R wanted to know whether or not we thought the spoiler looked good/bad/silly, and in my opinion, unless he needs to look for the best spoiler performance-wise (if he turned the car into a dedicated track racer, for example), he should go ahead and make his decision based on what he thinks looks good, taking our opinions into consideration if he so wishes.
 
Wolfe2x7
exigeracer has a point, but that same logic could be applied to the purchasing of a sportscar in general...if you aren't going to drive fast, or take it to a track often, why bother buying one?

Like it or not, for many people spoilers serve more of a purpose than just to provide downforce, and if you set performance aside, all you're left with is opinions. NSX-R wanted to know whether or not we thought the spoiler looked good/bad/silly, and in my opinion, unless he needs to look for the best spoiler performance-wise (if he turned the car into a dedicated track racer, for example), he should go ahead and make his decision based on what he thinks looks good, taking our opinions into consideration if he so wishes.

You can have a sportscar and not track it and have fun. You can keep under the speedlimits and take corners quicker, get to speed faster and have more fun in a well-balanced sportcar than a economy car, all under the speed limits. There are also the occasions where you can enjoy some safe spirited driving on the roads disregarding limits, and being in a sportscar would be better than a van or something (safety and performance-wise).

What other purpose is a wing for, other than downforce? Looks. That is the definition of Rice. NSX-R wanted an opinion: Race or Rice. I stated if it is for track-use, it's functional and therefore race. On the street where downforce is not needed to the same extent, installing such a wing is useless, therefore Rice.

He wantd a straight-up opinion, and I gave one. I don't see the need for any kind of argument or discussion.

If an e36 M3 rolled down the street with a wing like that on, I'd consider it Rice.

edit: I just noticed that the provided pictures also have aftermarket front splitters - something you should look into to have a more balanced downforce distribution if you do throw on that back wing.
 

Wolfe

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exigeracer
You can have a sportscar and not track it and have fun. You can keep under the speedlimits and take corners quicker, get to speed faster and have more fun in a well-balanced sportcar than a economy car, all under the speed limits. There are also the occasions where you can enjoy some safe spirited driving on the roads disregarding limits, and being in a sportscar would be better than a van or something (safety and performance-wise).

That doesn't stop people from buying sportscars and not driving them hard...and if you're willing to break speedlimits in a sports car, you're probably willing to break them to the point where a spoiler would help.

exigeracer
What other purpose is a wing for, other than downforce? Looks. That is the definition of Rice. NSX-R wanted an opinion: Race or Rice. I stated if it is for track-use, it's functional and therefore race. On the street where downforce is not needed to the same extent, installing such a wing is useless, therefore Rice.

If an e36 M3 rolled down the street with a wing like that on, I'd consider it Rice.

You have a different definition for rice than I do, then...an E36 M3 is capable of reaching speeds where a spoiler would help, and its drive wheels are located underneath the wing, therefore a wing isn't a pointless add-on, even if you don't "use it" all the time, and it isn't rice.

If NSX-R believed that adding a spoiler would magically make his car faster, even though it really wouldn't (other than, of course, improved rear grip at higher speeds)...that's rice.

Now, if the car doesn't really need a spoiler, the driver doesn't think it makes the car faster, and the driver isn't planning on driving at the speeds where a spoiler is effective, the labelling of "rice" or "not rice" comes down to personal opinion, really, and it depends on what different people think looks "good."

For example, a friend of mine with a B13 Sentra SE-R is considering buying an E30-M3-lookalike spoiler, not because he needs it, and not because it would make the car faster or better, but because he thinks it looks cool (and I agree).

Show cars (extremely modified trailer queens that are judged at major tuner shows) aren't ricers either, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, they look like they're "supposed" to go fast, but they often can't go fast, and aren't even driven at all...but many of the people who own them won't try to pretend like their car is the fastest thing on wheels.

So, go ahead and call my friend's Sentra rice if you want, or the show cars, or NSX-R's spoiler (if he chooses to buy it), but to me, rice has just as much to do with the attitude behind the modifications, as the modifications themselves.

exigeracer
He wantd a straight-up opinion, and I gave one. I don't see the need for any kind of argument or discussion.

Why join a forum, or post on it, if you don't want to discuss things? Or am I not allowed to disagree with you...?
 
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Wolfe2x7
Why join a forum, or post on it, if you don't want to discuss things? Or am I not allowed to disagree with you...?

I've been in sooooo many discussions here where that went through my head.
 

McLaren

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But Wolf, I think NSX-R has enough common sense not go to a speed where the spoiler will come into use on the streets.

Not to mention, that spoiler alone on the M3 with nothing else might make it look...well silly without a decent, pro-bodykit.

I've seen people make great looking M3's with a kit and power to match and not race it all the time, my friend being one before his "upgrade."

If all he was to do was just use the M3 to go from Point A to Point B, no speeding, the spoiler would be useless.
If he were to track every weekend, then it'd fulfill it's purpose (along with a needed bodykit for better times;) ).
 

Wolfe

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*McLaren*
But Wolf, I think NSX-R has enough common sense not go to a speed where the spoiler will come into use on the streets.

Not to mention, that spoiler alone on the M3 with nothing else might make it look...well silly without a decent, pro-bodykit.

I've seen people make great looking M3's with a kit and power to match and not race it all the time, my friend being one before his "upgrade."

If all he was to do was just use the M3 to go from Point A to Point B, no speeding, the spoiler would be useless.
If he were to track every weekend, then it'd fulfill it's purpose (along with a needed bodykit for better times;) ).

I never said he had to drive at such speeds.

If NSX-R thinks otherwise, that's up to him, and if he wants to get a bodykit to match, there's nothing stopping him.

Were those people, including your friend, "ricers," in your eyes?

Sure the spoiler wouldn't be serving as a performance item, but it would be certainly be serving as a visual/aesthetic item.
 
Wolfe2x7
That doesn't stop people from buying sportscars and not driving them hard...and if you're willing to break speedlimits in a sports car, you're probably willing to break them to the point where a spoiler would help.

Alright, you've got me there. I should have said "if you're driving at speed well in excess of any posted speedlimit - on or off track, you could benefit from this wing."

Wolfe2x7
an E36 M3 is capable of reaching speeds where a spoiler would help, and its drive wheels are located underneath the wing, therefore a wing isn't a pointless add-on, even if you don't "use it" all the time, and it isn't rice.

That's exactly why I said what I did. If he is traveling at speeds up there, on a track most likely, then the wing will be a good add-on.

Wolfe2x7
Why join a forum, or post on it, if you don't want to discuss things? Or am I not allowed to disagree with you...?

Hold on here. I still don't understand what your argument is or why you're putting me up to this. I stated my opinion in the clearest way possible exactly how it was asked in the initial post. The only point I am seeing that you're trying to make is that my definition of Rice is different than yours, which means your argument is going against yourself, in the sense that I like what I do, you like what you do, and NSX-R likes what he likes: no arguing needed.

Bottom line is he asked for my opinion and I gave it. I can't possibly be mad at you for disagreeing with me because, like I said, there isn't anything to disagree about.

BTW, completely OT, how does the B13 Sentra compare to your e30? The BMW was on my short-list but I cut it because it was too expensive where I live (see my thread in the Nissan forums).
 

Perfect Balance

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Some people say "does it need it", but I would say "does it help" You might not "need" it, but if it makes a difference, and stabilizes the car, and it looks cool, then why not?
 

Wolfe

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That's exactly why I said what I did. If he is traveling at speeds up there, on a track most likely, then the wing will be a good add-on.

I'm not saying that he would be driving at those speeds. My point was that the E36 M3 is capable of such speeds, even if he never reaches them, justifying (in part) the installation of the spoiler.

Contrast this with a Geo Metro that isn't running on all cylinders and struggles to reach highway speeds -- installing a spoiler, visually appealing or not, would serve absolutely no practical purpose.

That isn't to say that any spoiler installed on the Metro would automatically be rice -- again, the driver's attitude plays a part, as does the purpose of the spoiler -- but it makes more sense for the E36 M3 to have one.

exigeracer
Hold on here. I still don't understand what your argument is or why you're putting me up to this. I stated my opinion in the clearest way possible exactly how it was asked in the initial post. The only point I am seeing that you're trying to make is that my definition of Rice is different than yours, which means your argument is going against yourself, in the sense that I like what I do, you like what you do, and NSX-R likes what he likes: no arguing needed.

Bottom line is he asked for my opinion and I gave it. I can't possibly be mad at you for disagreeing with me because, like I said, there isn't anything to disagree about.

My argument is that a modification for the sake of visual appeal isn't automatically rice, and I am putting this argument out there for you and the other thread-goers to consider.

It would be unfair for me to expect you all to bend to my will and agree with me. On the other hand, if no one challenged each other's opinions and beliefs, GTPlanet would be a very boring forum. Challenging each other's opinions, and discussing the reasons behind those opinions, is part of the whole point of a forum -- that's why I'm confused that you don't want to discuss the spoiler, or the definition of rice.

You've stated that a spoiler for the sake of looks is rice. I argued against this view for the sake of discussion. I don't see what is so odd here.

It seemed to me that you were being overly defensive, and a bit arrogant, when you said, "He wantd a straight-up opinion, and I gave one. I don't see the need for any kind of argument or discussion."

If this is untrue, I apologize.

exigeracer
BTW, completely OT, how does the B13 Sentra compare to your e30? The BMW was on my short-list but I cut it because it was too expensive where I live (see my thread in the Nissan forums).

I'll make sure to visit your thread. :)
 
Wolfe2x7
It seemed to me that you were being overly defensive, and a bit arrogant, when you said, "He wantd a straight-up opinion, and I gave one. I don't see the need for any kind of argument or discussion."

If this is untrue, I apologize.

Then you've most certainly mistaken me. It's as if he asked 'what's your favorite colour' and I said blue and you said red. I don't really see a need to further discuss anything. I'm not at all saying that I'm right and you're wrong.

It's also that the rice discussion has passed through more times than Z06 discussions.

I think rice is adding a visual enhancement that won't serve any purpose. If you don't race your car, you won't need the wing. By my definition, rice originates from wanting to look like a racecar. This about it, body-kits, big spoilers, lowered stance, loud exhaust. It's all imitating a racecar. Adding a big wing to look like a racecar would be rice. That's also why I said if he tracks (or races) the car, it wouldn't appeal to me as rice.

I appologize for sounding like someone I'm not.
 

Perfect Balance

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Rice originated from muscle car enthusiasts making fun of japanese cars saying they ran on rice alcohol. Rice means a modification that doesnt serve a purpose, and a wing would definantly benefit a car. Stock lancers and subies have spoliers, but they are not rice, you don't have to go fast in order to have a wing, it helps at low speeds too, if not as significantly. In your definition, as long as he races the car, it is not rice. Rice is rice, no matter how you use it.


Further help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricer
 

Wolfe

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Sorry then, exigeracer. 'Twas a misunderstanding on my part. :)

I still think that adding a spoiler because it looks good, while knowing and admitting that it won't do the car any good, isn't really rice. I admit that it's hard to justify a racing foil with pretty much any car (like the one on the Neon in the Wiki article :lol: ), but something like NSX-R's M3 GTR wing isn't so bad, and the B13-with-an-E30-M3-spoiler idea is still a good one, IMO. 👍