Ride 4

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doblocruiser
@romanryunin That's strange, I don't have the same experience :scared:

Can you post an example (mode or careerevent)?

Will try later this week to see if I get the same issue as you.
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I will write down the race conditions and will let you know. I noticed even in MotoGP 19, after a few hours I still cound not catch up with the traffic whereas in Moto GP 17 I could win races at the easy setting. Anyway, it is a mystery why Milestones would like to piss off potential customers. I mean easy means easy in English, right? Not easy for the best virtual riders in the world.
 
mastergracie
The medals are still insanely difficult
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I've started working through requests for videos on the licenses/time attacks people are struggling with, seeing as the racing line is useless at times and the AI would have you believe things are possible which just aren't...

If you (or anyone else) is struggling on a particular one let me know and I'll record a run so you can review/study assuming I have access to the event...

Here's what I've got so far:
 
romanryunin
There is a few guys who do real riding on real tracks with real motorcycles, what is your opinion of the fixed first person camera? It is maybe a bit static, but at least nothing wrong with it, it is fixed to the bike, not the head. What camera do you guys real riders use and can you explain why you chose that camera?
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I ride a bit on track and I always use first person view in the game. When riding on IRL your body and head is on the inside of the bike looking through the turn. The swaying mentioned is somewhat realistic as you counter steer (google it) to initiate a turn and thus steering the bike away and to the outside your body. That's how you get the bike to lean and then again to turn. But as mentioned above - in real life you use throttle to turn as soon as you're done breaking. You want to load the rear tire to gain traction and to turn. Its the rear wheel that drives the turn, not the front. That's why you see MotoGP riders coming out of corners with the front wheel barely (or not even that) touching the ground while still turning. In the game you can trailbrake far into the corner and have to coast a lot. That's not realistic compared to real riding.

The "Gopro" cam in replay mimics this quite good. The "inside helmet" cam i useless as the visor is so "dirty" no one would ever be allowed on the track with such a visor...

Just did the world league licence test and the wet Interlagos track test was haaard..

I ride a Ducati 999S and I am very happy the 999R is in the game.
 
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Fremre_rille
I ride a bit on track and I always use first person view in the game. When riding on IRL your body and head is on the inside of the bike looking through the turn. The swaying mentioned is somewhat realistic as you counter steer (google it) to initiate a turn and thus steering the bike away and to the outside your body. That's how you get the bike to lean and then again to turn. But as mentioned above - in real life you use throttle to turn as soon as you're done breaking. You want to load the rear tire to gain traction and to turn. Its the rear wheel that drives the turn, not the front. That's why you see MotoGP riders coming out of corners with the front wheel barely (or not even that) touching the ground while still turning. In the game you can trailbrake far into the corner and have to coast a lot. That's not realistic compared to real riding.

The "Gopro" cam in replay mimics this quite good. The "inside helmet" cam i useless as the visor is so "dirty" no one would ever be allowed on the track with such a visor...

Just did the world league licence test and the wet Interlagos track test was haaard..

I ride a Ducati 999S and I am very happy the 999R is in the game.
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Thank you. I like the fixed cam as I can concentrate on having the bike where I want it to be, although it is not so realistic. I don't understand the throttle driving the bike thing - both in real life, riding my scooter, as I accelerate from the apex, the bike tends to turn following how much throttle I apply, and also in the game, more throttle out of the turn, the radius is bigger, so it seems in the game accelerating from the apex also affects where the bike is going, the more you accelerate from the apex in the game, the wider the radius and vice versa, why do people talk about unrealistic coasting, not sure. Up to the apex - in the game - we agree you can trailbrake. Once you reach the apex, you apply throttle, in the game, and that affects where the bike goes, I often apply too much throttle, in the game, and am too wide and get invalid lap, and again, the same thing in real life, the same thing, exactly, too much throttle from the apex and I sometimes have to brake again so as to avoid ending up in the ditch. Or the opposite is true, not enough throttle, both in game and IRL, and you tend to steer inside where you don't want to be, be it a ditch or the oncoming traffic.
 
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mastergracie
Please post this comment on their Facebook page. Nowadays it's the only way to be heard. If enough people complain they will have to do something about it.
It's a shame actually because the game has so much potential.
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I did and noticed lots and lots of people say the same thing in the comment, that the game is toooooo hard. It should be challenging for the Ride veterans, all right, but only if you wish to set the game to that hard mode, the easy setting should be easy and not hard even for veteran Ride gamers.
 
doblocruiser
@romanryunin That's strange, I don't have the same experience :scared:

Can you post an example (mode or careerevent)?

Will try later this week to see if I get the same issue as you.
Click to expand...

Ok, I analysed the problem yesterday. I tried the same bike and track in Ride 3 and saw one big difference. In Ride 3 at the very easy setting the AI had best laps of cca 58 seconds, which is what I managed too, so I could race and keep up with AI in Ride 3 on the same bike and same track. In Ride 4 at the easiest settings the winning AI had 55 seconds laps, which was about 5 seconds faster than my lap, bacuse in Ride 4, I am a bit slower than in Ride 3 due to lack of practice compared to Ride 3. Hence, no chance to keep up. So firstly in Ride 4 the very easy setting is about easy to medium in Ride 3. Now I tried to change the camera from first person to 3rd person and immediately saw where I lost time. In first person I am not able to find the ideal trajectory as I cannot see clearly where I am on the road, whereas in 3rd person I can see exactly where the bike is and where I want it to be and my lap times are about 3 seconds faster at short Okayama. So in Ride 4 I could keep up with the very easy traffic only when using the 3rd person camera and choosing the best trajectory. In Ride 3 when I practiced in first person camera for an hour or two hours at a track like short Okayama, I could eventually match my 3rd person lap times. So I believe it is possible to master the trajectory even in 1st person camera but it takes time and patience. I am sure in real life, I often have no idea where the best trajectory is when I don't know the road and the corners, I often cannot see how the corner will unford, blind corners, etc, so I think the game simulates this exactly and it is easier to find the trajectory when you look at the bike from above and behind. Also I noticed you are faster without traction control. Now I wish somebody told me - do the AI in quick races use upgraded bikes or stock bikes? Becasue if they use upgraded versus my stock bike, that is another reason I cannot keep up with them. But I want to try to race AI that is on the same bike, same upgrades. But anyway, in Ride 4 the very easy AI is stupidly fast and beginners have no chance to keep up.
 
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romanryunin
I don't understand the throttle driving the bike thing - both in real life, riding my scooter, as I accelerate from the apex, the bike tends to turn following how much throttle I apply, and also in the game, more throttle out of the turn, the radius is bigger, so it seems in the game accelerating from the apex also affects where the bike is going, the more you accelerate from the apex in the game, the wider the radius and vice versa, why do people talk about unrealistic coasting, not sure. Up to the apex - in the game - we agree you can trailbrake. Once you reach the apex, you apply throttle, in the game, and that affects where the bike goes, I often apply too much throttle, in the game, and am too wide and get invalid lap, and again, the same thing in real life, the same thing, exactly, too much throttle from the apex and I sometimes have to brake again so as to avoid ending up in the ditch. Or the opposite is true, not enough throttle, both in game and IRL, and you tend to steer inside where you don't want to be, be it a ditch or the oncoming traffic.
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It's not like more throttle equals more turning - it's more complicated than that. But the contact patch of rear tire is larger than the front - so you want to load the rear to gain more traction to turn. Not full throttle, but some. The suspension is also design to work that way, as the rear rises under throttle opposite of what seems intuitive - so to gain ground clearance you want to apply throttle. But since it's not how it works in the game it's besides the point of this thread. But go watch A twist of the wrist on youtube I think the whole movie is still there - it's old but gold :)
 
romanryunin
Did you notice one of the head cameras is fixed to the bike? No swaying. I wonder nobody seems to be happy about this "at last they got it" feature, it was absent in Ride 3 and in MotoGP until MotoGP 19.
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I will look for that camera and try it. I'm guessing that it will be good but if they centered the camera with the tires it would be better like a car game.. The problem is the front view would be effected and cause a bigger problem. I should try your camera setting first before talking ......
 
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Can't deny it, I'm really enjoying this now. Still getting to grips with the photo mode where it seems to be like GTSport and you can't see all your adjustments until it finishes processing the picture?
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MrBungle06_RIDE4_20201008_02-03-44.jpg

20861438

20861482
 
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couple things
@r_outsider I understand what you are talking about and see the same things when I see or watch others play video games at times. They aren't looking up the track and their reference points are often too late or just off which creates interesting lines. But no that's not what I refer to when I talk about the handling.

@romanryunin as for the fix bike perspective what annoys me about that is then you get the titled earth effect which drives me NUTS!!!! When I ride I don't see the earth titled when I'm in a corner. Maybe I should give it a try and see if I can shave some secs off my laptimes!!! lol I think Tourist Trophy still did the best onboard. And I agree with the helmet view of Ride 4 who thought it was good idea to have the goggles so dirty? geez


@Fremre_rille and in regards to the sway and controller. I completely disagree with anyone who says the sway is realistic and then points to a video as proof. The problem is the video gives a different perspective of what is happening. Countersteering or not the motorcycle doesn't sway it leans. The contact point being the tires. So with that said when you look at a video and see the sway you aren't seeing the bike sway but the camera sway. If it is a helmet cam that will give the impression of the bike swaying because the pivot point is based off the camera mounted to the head or something that is not in contact with the bike. If it's mounted to the bike the view will lean and not sway there is a big difference in that when it leans the bike is still on the line that you are on. Vs a sway where the point of the camera stays on "the line" but now the bike appears to move off it. In the game if you are on the edge of the track setting up for a tear if using the 1st person the when you turn the bike will sway off the line and put in either in the dirt or off the line you intended. If you don't ride then you adjust to video game physics pretty quickly. But I'm old so I struggle to adjust at times especially if its a good race and I resort to real technique which doesn't work.

http://iasystems.tk/hs3-pro-he/ That controller is a perfect example of what isn't realistic. because if it works like I think I've seen it again is based off the sway principle which isn't real and I'd honestly rather use a controller because the steering isn't the issue, to it's the throttle. I don't know that you need to put counter-steering into a game. Yeah I do it but it's not something I really think about. I mean at no point do I go......"here comes a turn I need to counter-steer and then at this point I need to steer-steer.... But too me something along the lines of

Yamaha_Motor_Sport_Controller_Image.jpg


Would be better; Again I don't mind the steering being simple let to right. But if you wanted it to be more realistic you could extend the steering column on this so that it has multi axis. You can turn left right like a bike but also lean left/right and that would ad another layer of realism if a dev took advantage and actually tried to factor in lean angle. But the main benefit to me would be the throttle being more controllable
 
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when I do those track tests I switch to 3rd person because it's more precise in regards to lines and what contacts those flags. One last thing @romanryunin when I say "on the throttle" I don't mean I'm wide open. What I mean is I don't coast through corners. I brake and when I release the brake I am on the throttle holding a speed and/or beginning to accelerate. It is hard to do that in Milestone's games because you touch the throttle the bikes stand and go wide so you have to be off the throttle to hold a line. And end up having to do tap the throttle. Against another person it's not an issue because they have to do the same but it's a pain against the AI when they are clearly accelerating and you can't yet. A GF saw me playing once and asked why I was doing the throttle like that and I had to explain it to her. She was just learning to ride and wondered if she should do that in real life!?!?!!?!

As mentioned it's to complicated to try and explain here, but there are a combination of things that I do when riding to hold/adjust my line..... braking, accelerating, leaning, etc....... but the one I never do is coast. It's the same with the shifting. When I'm braking I downshift through the gears pretty quickly and get all that done early so when I release the brake the bike is settled. So when I turn in if I've gotten it correct the bike turns in as expected. I've experimented and again I've never had the gear selection effect the turn in of the bike. The gear was about setting up to get out of the corner
 
And my last of the day lol I put more time in and it's sad that too me the game design and AI just lets this game down. It looks great and when I don't try to use real technique it actually plays great and is fun to just grab a bike and put laps in. But there is the problem. Because they've locked so much of it up and require you grid through a bunch of crap you may not be interested in. I put the time in and got the 5 basic bikes I want and to be honest I'm pretty much done with the career. But there is no excuse for the AI at this point. It's just terrible and anyone who says it isn't is just lying. There is no racing it. because it doesn't race with like you are there. I honestly think if they aren't going to even try to make it aware and reactive of the player then Milestone would be better off just going completely old school were the AI in racing games were nothing more than progress markers or time extenders. I mean I loved Sega Rally and the AI was really only there to let you know your pace. They always did the same thing at the same spot. With Ride 4 I spend more time restarting races to the point I always just start at the back and do 5 to 10 lap races. So the AI spreads a bit and I work my way through. But then what is the point might as well do Time Trail. Which doesn't give you enough credits because of bad game design.

So Milestone creates a single player experience where everything is locked and to get it you have you deal with crap AI. I don't like the tests in GT either but at least they make sense and they build. Thought was put into them and how, so you can see how they prepare you for something. Vs Milestone is just haphazard. Still if Milestone would actually listen and try Ride 4 (pretty much like all of their games) is actually pretty easily fixable. but they won't do it. At this point I got the main bikes I want so no just have to wait for Kyalami and Valencia and I'm set. Doubt I'll do any online just to hard to find decent clean racers anymore
 
RZ05
@Fremre_rille and in regards to the sway and controller. I completely disagree with anyone who says the sway is realistic and then points to a video as proof. The problem is the video gives a different perspective of what is happening. Countersteering or not the motorcycle doesn't sway it leans. The contact point being the tires. So with that said when you look at a video and see the sway you aren't seeing the bike sway but the camera sway. If it is a helmet cam that will give the impression of the bike swaying because the pivot point is based off the camera mounted to the head or something that is not in contact with the bike. If it's mounted to the bike the view will lean and not sway there is a big difference in that when it leans the bike is still on the line that you are on. Vs a sway where the point of the camera stays on "the line" but now the bike appears to move off it. In the game if you are on the edge of the track setting up for a tear if using the 1st person the when you turn the bike will sway off the line and put in either in the dirt or off the line you intended. If you don't ride then you adjust to video game physics pretty quickly. But I'm old so I struggle to adjust at times especially if its a good race and I resort to real technique which doesn't work.
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I think this video explains my take on it quite good:
When riding on track on the limit IRL my perception is that the bike moves out (or sways), because the bike initially has a wider radius than my body and I'm "diving to the inside" as he calls it in the video. I think the game somewhat replicates this.
 
the key word is "perception". The bike doesn't SWAY. It is on the line that it is on. On the other hand you go from being on the bike inline. To moving off the bike. What has changed? You not the bike. When you track the line of the bike it is on a line and doesn't sway off that line. But what does move off that line is you. you clip an apex knee on the curb and a vid will show what seems like "oh my he's in the grass" but he isn't in the grass because the bike is on track. So again what the game is capturing is the perspective of a camera which gives the impression of the bike swaying when it isn't because the pivot point is the camera not the bike. If you actually analyzed the camera footage from a helmet cam you'd see that while it looks like the bike is swaying it isn't but the head "though the focal point" is moving.

The problem in the game with this is that it's some screwed up hybrid where the the head is the pivot and the bike is always moving off the line. IRL the mind corrects/adjusts a lot of things and that's why we don't walk around dizzy all the time. Perception isn't what is actually happening. I don't put my head on the line that I want to be on. I put the bike on the line that I want to be on and I know where my head is in relation to that.

Don't get me wrong I don't claim to be the best rider or the fastest rider around. but there are basics that are constantly misspoken
 
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RZ05 said and now it makes sense: "when I say "on the throttle" I don't mean I'm wide open. What I mean is I don't coast through corners. I brake and when I release the brake I am on the throttle holding a speed and/or beginning to accelerate. It is hard to do that in Milestone's games because you touch the throttle the bikes stand and go wide so you have to be off the throttle to hold a line. And end up having to do tap the throttle. Against another person it's not an issue because they have to do the same but it's a pain against the AI when they are clearly accelerating and you can't yet"

I think I know what you mean, when riding my scooter I gently or more quickly apply the throttle and can have things under control, but in the game you have to play with the throttle in a kind of digital way, you cannot rely on it as something controlling the trajectory of the bike when exiting the corner, but as I am not so aware yet what I do in real life when riding, I don't realize that what I do in the game is not the same as in real life... I thought I just applied the throttle in the game not too little, not too much and make the exit, but it is a bit messed up in the game compared to real life.

Btw I am at last able to end in the middle of the pack when racing very easy AI... definitely easier in lower classes than with the faster bikes.
 
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If its similar to ride3, from what i noticed at least, is that at higher speed in curves if you lean in using the manual tuck in, it really helps turn in.

It would make sense maybe from your rider body dragging catching the wind and pulling you more to the inside of the curve, maybe also helps the centre of gravity be on the inside, fighting the inertia that wants to go straight, with higher speeds increasing this, and put weight on the front and less on the rear to help turn in.

I use it in helmet view, no aids, no special setups.
I still need of course to balance the bike with just enough throttle and a little of front brake.
 
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Request for a brighter game... Its a good looking game but if it wants look as good as Pcars2 it will need to brighten up a sunny day.
(I feel the same way about Forza 7)
 
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John Wells
Thanks Dragonistic watched some stuff, some make look so easy.:boggled:
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Here you go, I think the key to this is not slowing down too much (duh) but when you underspeed you'll end up turning too sharply and taking multiple bites at turning in. If you do end up turning into early or sharply, try to ease off the steering while either accelerating if you were too slow or begin to coast/brake if you're also carrying an overspeed.

I've noticed that some riders are struggling as their inputs are very abrupt, tapping the stick for example instead of applying a steady part-lean and Ride demands smooth inputs to succeed. You can also head out of career and run Time Trial around brands loaning the R3 for some extra practice without the frustration of being reset.

You can also abuse the heck out of Rewind on this particular test and almost do it 1 turn at a time, if you know you're about to run wide just rewind to save the reset.
 
Dragonistic
Here you go, I think the key to this is not slowing down too much (duh) but when you underspeed you'll end up turning too sharply and taking multiple bites at turning in. If you do end up turning into early or sharply, try to ease off the steering while either accelerating if you were too slow or begin to coast/brake if you're also carrying an overspeed.
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Was doing some time trials on R3, your in a higher gear, as well, so give try later. I never use rewind, in games, but probably turning in hard, instead, smooth. MotoGP19, works a lot better if don't try not to push.
 

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