Serious Question About The GT Sport Track List.

9
Australia
Australia
Just thinking out loud here - and more pondering rather than complaining - but do other people find it strange that PD decided to allocate it's limited resources of time and money producing arguably pointless, never-used circuits such as:
Northern Isle Speedway
Blue Moon Bay Speedway
Broad Bean Raceway
Fishermans Ranch
Colorado Springs
Sardegna Rally Track
Alsace
Special Stage Route X

I imagine creating these 8x circuits requires a decent amount of time & money. And these circuits would be used arguably 0.1% of the time. They never feature in dailies & rarely in FIA events. This is a personal opinion, but they are also boring and uninteresting tracks (understand that is purely subjective).

But I do think at least 95% of GT Sport users would agree if PD spent those resources instead by creating circuits that can actually be utilised in FIA & dailies - (thus avoiding the endless repeat combos of Autopolis, Fuji, or Dragon Trail) - we'd all have an endlessly better experience.

There is a huge list of GT circuits that could have been created for Gr3 and Gr4: Silverstone, Imola, Hungaroring, Zolder, COTA, Kyalami, Sepang etc.. I could list at least 30+ options. Plus a host of fantasy tracks all fans love. I just find it slightly confusing for me that they would make such a strange decision bearing mind the online & FIA ideology surrounding GT Sport.

Apologies if this has been covered in the past - but interested in other people's thoughts on this.
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
Man, all those circuits are in the game except what the heck is broad bean lol?
All those are super fun IF the car chosen goes well with it.
I actually really like the fantasy circuits and they can provide some of the best racing online anywhere, but imo the cars have to matchup with both track and drivers to make it so.
I pretty much completely disagree with your take personally and feel the opposite.
 
9
Australia
Australia
Man, all those circuits are in the game except what the heck is broad bean lol?
All those are super fun IF the car chosen goes well with it.
I actually really like the fantasy circuits and they can provide some of the best racing online anywhere, but imo the cars have to matchup with both track and drivers to make it so.
I pretty much completely disagree with your take personally and feel the opposite.

Haha first I should clarify that I am not posing the question around fantasy tracks. Fantasy road tracks like maggiore, sardegna road etc. bring a lot to the table and are used frequently by PD in their combos.

And also I take your point that track preference and enjoyment is entirely subjective. This is very true.

The point is more around actual usage - and that almost all of the aforementioned circuits (almost all of which I mentioned are ovals and rally tracks) have not been utilised in PD's daily race selection - and rarely in FIA events.

Which to me seems like a waste of resource - and also means tracks like Fuji, Autopolis and co get used far too often imo.
 
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38,433
Australia
The Bronx
As per the recent Daily Race combos, PD seem to be switching up cars available. I don't think any of us were able to use any of the cars in the N800 race, except for the Skylines, but in N300 JDM Daily races.

May be too little too late, but seems like PD are trying to spice up car selection. We may yet see PD use the tracks in the above list.
 
8,181
Canada
Canada
Man, all those circuits are in the game except what the heck is broad bean lol?
All those are super fun IF the car chosen goes well with it.
I actually really like the fantasy circuits and they can provide some of the best racing online anywhere, but imo the cars have to matchup with both track and drivers to make it so.
I pretty much completely disagree with your take personally and feel the opposite.

Broad Bean is BB Raceway. :)
 
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286
Russian Federation
Russia
cosmicosme
AlexSpace28
The topic of tracks in GTS is a difficult one for me.

On the one hand, I really like some made up tracks like Laggio Maggiore and Dragon Trails Seaside. They have some really thrilling corners and turns which makes them actually as fun to drive as some real-life tracks.
On the other hand, most of other fantasy tracks feel kinda boring to me and every time I see them in daily races I'm thinking something akin to "nah, they are not real". While I appreciate the scenery and beautiful landscapes of Alsace and Saint-Croix, at the same I get this feeling like they don't feel like real tracks, something feels off.

I enjoy some sectors of Kyoto though.

Overall I cannot say I'm unhappy with the amount of tracks in GTS because there are only few of them which I can say I mastered (at least at my current level), but at the same time there are still so many real-life tracks which I would love to see in this game instead of off-road tracks at least. Especially after huge list of tracks and track variations in Project Cars 2.

I guess there is not a single racing game that features all the tracks that you want, so let's see what they come up with in GT7. If they can keep adding new tracks to the current roster at the same pace they added them to GTS for first two years, I think it will be an impressive list in the end.
 
2,891
Canada
Canada
Kaizen-Teian
Wish they spread the fictional tracks around the world more. Like Dragon Trail.

Alsace/St. Croix in France. Maggiore/Sardenga in Italy.

I'd move Alsace to Sweden. And Maggiore to Mexico.
 
3,875
Australia
Australia
I strongly agree.

A lot of design decisions PD make are just terrible. When their output is slow, they can't afford to make tracks that they dont even use in GT League. That's just insane. If I never had to race Fuji again I'd be pretty happy.

Theres a decent number of cars in the game though, but you'd never know because 60% of sport mode is two categories in the game, and a lot of the cars you can't even race against others (Group X).

They've got to be smarter with their selections. I could design better than Some of the slop they've dished out.
 
38,433
Australia
The Bronx
The same way PD have car sales, car use data, they have track use data.

Many users claim to race Nurburgring/Nordschleife a lot. That might be a reason for seeing that track pop up. Many players also like Dragon Trail Seaside. Broad Bean doesn't appear to be a well liked track. We did just have FIA Gr.3 race at BMB infield. Before that, it was in FIA Gr.2 cars.

I don't know about the Tokyo tracks. Those come up often. Red Bull Ring comes up often. Players were happy when Laguna Seca was added. Are players hot lapping that track? Could account for it being used often.

12-20 cars at the rally circuits, with penalties.... PD would have to turn penalties off like they did with SSRX. Then, I think it'd work.
 
3,875
Australia
Australia
A random number generator would be able to assign better tracks.

I feel like they want to use real word tracks... and further, they want to pander to the home audience, who they themselves are probably sick of the same tracks.

The same way PD have car sales, car use data, they have track use data.

It's just stupid. I've absolutely no faith they can interpret data correctly either.

Also If they wanted to stack sport mode with Japanese tracks they could've at least had the common decency to model SUGO
 
44
100% agree, espeically as we missed out on a lot of tracks from GT6 for, what i consider anyway, a lot of garbage. I'm more in to real world tracks than the fictional ones, but missing a circuit like Grand Valley for **** like Special Stage Route X or whatever it's called is a head scratcher.
 
38,433
Australia
The Bronx
I was thrown off my chair when Autopolis was added. Love that track. I did expect Sugo to join Fuji and Suzuka, but ain't happening.

The Lago circuits are used often and plenty players like those layouts.
Broad Bean is such an obviously bean shaped track, I really don't see the purpose of PD building it. A bigger Northern Isle... I mean, call it "Southern" Isle...really... A bigger oval would have been time better spent. Especially, as we aren't going to see Daytona and Indianapolis in GT SPORT.

Monza pops up often. We get Bathurst periodically. I can't see any joy coming from using BBR(though I did have fun in the Daily with friends using the Shelby GT350), FR and CR in the OP. SSRX would be a fantastic recurring Race B.
 
9
Australia
Australia
Theres a decent number of cars in the game though, but you'd never know because 60% of sport mode is two categories in the game

I think that is a good point. I totally get that PD are trying to have a variety of options to cater for everyone - like a regular GT game which is great - by having ovals, rallying, karts, and an entire range of road cars.

But GT Sport was never a full GT game and the core philosophy behind GT Sport was and still seems to be online competition in GR/GT cars. And if they just embraced that and went all-in on that one concept - and used their limited time building track and car selections that meet that focus - e.g more updated GR spec cars and circuits - it would be a more focused end product imo.
 
3,875
Australia
Australia
I think that is a good point. I totally get that PD are trying to have a variety of options to cater for everyone - like a regular GT game which is great - by having ovals, rallying, karts, and an entire range of road cars.

I think some of the problem is that for some motorsports, they like the cars, but when it comes to the actual category, they just don't get it. It's like a box ticking exercise.

Rally in GT isn't rally or rallycross, and seemingly PD are too embarrassed by it to actually use it in GT League.

Oval racing is easier to implement, but the collision physics + penalties are terrible. Northern Isle is like Bristol, it's too small to avoid contact if you're interested in passing. For reference, the smallest oval IndyCar races at (Richmond) is 33% bigger than Northern Isle.

Blue Moon Bay and BB Raceway are like ovals made by track designers who don't like oval racing. Blue Moon Bay is interesting but Turn 1 is unrealistic and gives it a braking zone for conventional road racing overtaking. BB Raceway is just a horribly disfigured mess, kill it with fire

But GT Sport was never a full GT game and the core philosophy behind GT Sport was and still seems to be online competition in GR/GT cars. And if they just embraced that and went all-in on that one concept - and used their limited time building track and car selections that meet that focus - e.g more updated GR spec cars and circuits - it would be a more focused end product imo.

I think they're more than capable of focusing on other areas - but it requires focus, not just hastily pumping out assets that have no use case.
 
2,685
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
I actually sorta like BB, it’s this really odd course that’s technically an oval. But I also agree that for both Northern Isle and BB, they’re best raced with slow cars, much like how you’ll never see a Gr.1 race at Nurburgring Nordschleife. I think Northern Isle and Blue Moon Bay would nicely compliment Daytona and Indy if the latter two reappear in GT7, especially if they also get their infield courses back.

I’d also love to see the return of the Twin Ring Motegi SuperSpeedway - I’m sure PD could get enough data to recreate it despite the damage from the 2011 earthquake, and PD has recreated historic circuits already with 80’s variants of Fuji, Monza, and Brands Hatch.

Finally, if NASCAR returns, I think I’d only want one car from each major automaker, with the Jeff Gordon car used in GT5’s special events being one of them. Maybe we could have a trio of cars for each year of NASCAR that’s appeared in GT previously (I think being 2010 and 2011, and maybe another year I’m forgetting), with a trio of the newest cars for good measure. (I think the NASCAR Supra A90 was one of them.)

You could eventually have a good-sized NASCAR campaign event, between Suzuka East, Daytona, Blue Moon Bay, and Northern Isle, with a potential Indycar event that uses Indy and the Twin Ring Motegi SuperSpeedway, and other courses used by Indy such as Laguna Seca. (Although I think Indycar has been using the main circuit since the earthquake damaged the speedway.)

I guess what I’m saying is that I think there’s real potential for a campaign event based on either an IMSA Sportscar championship (e.g. using the Daytona infield course), NASCAR, or Indycar. Perhaps instead of an IMSA event, it could simply be a more generalized set of events for Gr.3 and Gr.1, sorta like the ones in GTS, except as championship events rather than single races. But I digress.
 
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531
Finland
Finland
PD get about 50% of a game wrong but we still keep buying the next one. The tracks mentioned are indeed a waste of time. Would take Sierra back over all those crappy ones or 1 other real life track.
 
2,099
Canada
Canada
I will never understand the poor management of racing games. So many are too big, too broad and spend money on stuff barely used. Project Cars 1 and 2 are fine examples, especially 2. Refine, refine and refine.

For GTS, you could ditch anything rally related, a complete waste of time and money. YOu could also ditch bog stock unexciting road cars, i wouldn't any plainer than a Toyota FRS.

So much waste and lack of focus.
 

TonyJZX

(Banned)
3,945
Australia
Australia
They had grander plans for Group B... there was a fair bit of offroad in GT6 so I assume they wanted to at least have that level of content but yeah... what is the point of all these Gr.B cars that really dont have a defined use in game.
 

LeGeNd-1

Premium
6,805
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
It's classic PD really. Ever since GT5 you get the sense that they are always trying to bite off more than they can chew. Remember how they completely under utilised the NASCAR and WRC licences? GTS is actually a huge improvement in this regard because it's one of the most focused GT game since probably GT3. People also tend to forget that on release we have way less road cars than we have now, but the classic fans cried and we got more added along with GT League to make the game feel more traditional.

I certainly wouldn't miss the ovals if they aren't there. Blue Moon at least has road course variants and SSRX is good for top speed testing, but Northern Isle and BB Raceway are just odd additions. Here's hoping they would be more useful in the future if NASCAR came back to GT7.

Sidenote, BB Raceway is based on Trenton Speedway (although T1 is not as tight): https://www.racingcircuits.info/north-america/usa/trenton-speedway.html
Blue Moon is based on Pocono (again, T1 isn't as tight IRL): https://www.racingcircuits.info/north-america/usa/pocono-raceway.html
Northern Isle is based on Bristol Speedway.

As for rally tracks, I've said for years that they are better off scrapped until PD can improve rally physics enough. It's not real rally, and it's not rallycross either. It's this weird Sega Rally wannabe with slightly more sim physics. If PD have touge tracks we can try to emulate tarmac rallies, but we don't have that either so Gr.B is wasted. Don't get me started on having Snow tyres in the game despite not having snow tracks either...

I wouldn't say Alsace is a wasted slot. It's a quirky track that takes a while to learn the proper racing lines, but once you do it's very satisfying to get right. Unfortunately the wide corner entries tend to encourage lots of dumb divebombs in online races. IMO, I'd rather lose St Croix (especially layout A/C) than Alsace.

I will never understand the poor management of racing games. So many are too big, too broad and spend money on stuff barely used. Project Cars 1 and 2 are fine examples, especially 2. Refine, refine and refine.

For GTS, you could ditch anything rally related, a complete waste of time and money. You could also ditch bog stock unexciting road cars, i wouldn't any plainer than a Toyota FRS.

So much waste and lack of focus.

I appreciate the road cars, and driving wise they are more enjoyable for me than Gr.3. If you've driven AC/ACC you'll know how poorly simulated the premiere racecar category in GTS is. Most of this is due to the default setup, but even when tuned it's still not quite right. So no, I wouldn't say road cars are useless. Both can coexist in the game, and even PCARS has a few road cars in its roster too.

Even with the racecars, PD couldn't get the categories right either:
Gr.1 - mixing Group C, modern hybrid LMPs and VGTs
Gr.2 - mixing old and new cars
Gr.3 - mixing FIA GT1 and modern GT3
Gr.4 - mixing TCR, made up 4WD and modern GT4
Gr.B - they got the wrong Audi quattro (Pikes Peak instead of actual Group B spec)

Then there are stupid decisions like putting MX5 TC in N class (when it's clearly a racecar). Same issue with Aston Vulcan and then neutering its downforce so bad it's undrivable.

Worse of all, they clearly still don't understand clear class separation because in the GT7 trailer we can see the RX-V racing against DBR9 and 917K !!! :banghead:
 
2,107
United States
United States
G_ASHER
Actually, the best Gr.3 race I've had was at Broad Bean with tire wear and fuel on. Battling back and forth with the lead car for 15 or 20 laps ( I don't recall exactly) and coming in second by a small margin was immensely fun.
 
1,148
United Kingdom
Devon UK
Not played for ages but last night I logged in and had great fun driving highly inappropriate cars around Fisherman's Ranch.

That's all I have to say about that.
 
3,875
Australia
Australia
They don't understand oval racing or rallying and dont really seem open to being told otherwise

From the outside it looks like theres too many yes men rather than anyone questioning the wisdom of making tracks that highlight the game's poor off road physics, poor collision physics or temperamental penalty system

They dont put enough resources into making tracks or don't outsource so when they invest in weird hybrid rallycross circuits they sell themselves short because they rush to pump out badly made or designed tracks like St Croix that look like theyve been generated by an algorithm with a set-piece slapped in the middle of it, rather than anything resembling a layout that might exist in real life

I bought GT Sport because at launch it was a lot more focused than previous releases (ie actual racing classes and not a GT40 racing a GT3) despite the 'rally' and dud tracks like Northern Isle, but unfortunately most of the cars added to the game since havent really added to the game.
 
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TonyJZX

(Banned)
3,945
Australia
Australia
They don't understand oval racing or rallying and dont really seem open to being told otherwise

They had ovals in GT5/6 and official Nascar endorsement and yet they didnt have staggered setups... ie. assymetrical left to right setup ability.

The end.

I would have loved to have seen PD original rally cross tracks with the League addons with a joker lap... they could easily make these playable on other series with just a hard invisible wall block....