Setup Vs. Setup: Shelby Cobra Coupe, was Jaguar XJR-15

Discussion in 'GT2 Settings & Tunings' started by sucahyo, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    The wish list for setup vs setup so far:
    Car:
    Toyota GTone Road Car
    Toyota Gt one Race Car
    TVR Speed 12
    Jaguar XJR-15
    Saleen Mustang
    Ford GT-40 road car
    Ford GT-40 race car
    Shelby series-1
    Shelby Cobra Coupe
    JECS Skyline
    R390GT1 RaceCar '97
    Dodge Viper RT/10
    Sting Ray '69 or '67
    Lotus Elise Motorsport

    Track:
    High Speed Ring
    Laguna Seca
    Grand Valley (any version)
    Apricot Hill
    Trial Mountain
    Rome-Night
    Grindelwald
     
  2. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    Jaguar XJR-15
    at Grand Valley Speedway

    Pros:
    Light and fast. Unlike anything I drive before! The handling is good, feel very light and steady, I don't feel any body roll. The engine is smooth and strong.

    Cons:
    Spin on braking, little jiggling on the rear.

    Solution:
    Increase LSD. But as I don't feel bothered with throttle spin I decide to increase only decel LSD.

    Tuning Chart:
    Spring Rate: 12.5 - 11.5
    Ride Height: 65 - 115
    Damper Bound: 1 - 10
    Damper Rebound: 1 - 10
    Camber: 0.0 - 0.0
    Toe: 0.00 - 0.00
    Stabilizer: 7 - 1

    Brake Balance: N/A

    Gear: Auto 16 at 2.500.
    1st - 3.826
    2nd - 2.811
    3rd - 2.135
    4th - 1.675
    5th - 1.356
    6th - 1.132

    Downforce: 0.62 - 0.95
    LSD Initial: 1
    LSD Accelerate: 1
    LSD Decelerate: 56

    Lap time: 1:42.xxx
    (using auto and supersoft tire)

    Overall Impression:
    Driving this car feel very different from other car, its like driving car in different game!
    I only do little modification to my base tuning, my goal is to make the car drivable, but I think this car should be able to make fast lap time. The main problem with spin when braking is mostly cured by using higher decel LSD, although I wish this car have BBC so I can fine tune it more, the car still feel unstable on braking. I use damper to reduce jiggling.
    The car will be oversteer on slow corner when the rear tire spin on acceleration. On moderate and fast corner the car will feel understeer on corner entry, and snap to slightly oversteer before corner exit. I make it more oversteer by using a little stiffer rear spring, so it can go full throttle at the last corner.
     
  3. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Location:
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    Jaguar XJR-15 at Grand Valley Speedway full course.

    First, i drove it with all the computer's stock settings: all dampers on 7, camber preset at 2.0° and 1.0°. Sucahyo is right...the XJR-15 is extremely controllable. I found i could get around the entire course with little drama, and it seems you can push and push this car out of corners with the speed (even with normal tires) and it just hung on. Still there were some issues:

    CONS: a tendency for the tail to swing too wide at times under acceleration. Also, the XJR-15 had a habit of pulling too much to the inside under braking and lacked stability over bumps-especially down the hill after turn 2.

    STEP 1: tried lowering the car first with softer dampers than 7. and also made the springs roughly half as stiff. I messed with the gearbox just to see if i could ínclude 6th gear down the straightaway. Now i could acheive a 1:46.399 lap time but that also included a coupld of blunders. The Jag understeered too much thru those chicanes and esses, too. Time to fix that.

    STEP 2; i forgot i was still running on stock tires :) Time to shod the super soft slicks. :p Also, i changed my ground clearance from 72mm / 65mm to 66 mm all around. I wasn't digging the way my car was still losing stability so i increased the stabilizers and the springs a bit. See, since the power can't be increased, your settings really make a differnece in this car!

    Now i could get around in 1:43.396. Time for some final tweaking

    STEP 3: I noticed a bit too much reaction over bumps and apexes so i raised the car 10 mm up front and 8 in the rear. There was still too much understeer in the slowr corners but i noticed if i let off on the gas entirely, it would straighten out. To get this reaction happening faster i increased the rear rebound dampers and softened up both the accel and decel in the limited-slip. Below are my final settings...
     
  4. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Location:
    United States
    I still had some issues with my Jag, but i got other things to do today...can't sit in front of my TV for 3 hours.

    Springs: 9.5 / 11.5 kg/mm
    Ride: ```74 / 80 mm
    B. Dampers: 2/4
    R. Dampers: 3/5
    Camber: ```3.2° / 1.2°
    Toe: all zero
    Stabs: 4/5

    Manual Transmission Auto20
    1st: 3.300
    2nd: 2.100
    3rd: 1.650
    4th: 1.285
    5th: 1.040
    6th: 0.860
    Final: 3.100

    Downforce: 0.50 / 0.75

    LSD: 15 / 20/ 27
    Tires: All supasoft

    I cranked out a 1.41.677 with maybe a couple of opportunites for improvement. This is just 4 seconds slower than my all time record here with a Dodge Copperhead LM

    Will try Suc's settings later!
     
  5. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    Your setting feel good as usual Parnelli Bone :tup:. More forgiving to my driving style than mine :dopey:, make me want to revise my LSD setting (using 1/56/56 now).

    Your car feel understeer compare to mine, I feel it strongly at the long tunnel. But it also make the driving easier, with lift of throttle I can regain back front traction, so I can direct the car with throttle and steering input. Mine feel tight, is very sensitif to steering input. I must focused on keeping the car on the right line on every corner. With your setting I can be more relaxed.

    Your gear is better, it help your car make faster acceleration than mine, maybe because lower downforce too.
    For lap time, my setting is a bit faster, maybe because your car is more understeer on some fast corner when sometime I make mistake when taking driving line.

    No wonder your setting is more mature than mine, I do my setting in less than half an hour :p.
     
  6. AngelCreator

    AngelCreator

    Messages:
    2,276
    1:43:841 Jaguar XJR 15 Stock
    I drove the car and for me, it had just a hint of understeer but was
    nice and stable when in the corners and under braking.
    And i can go full throttle out of all the corners and have no problems.
     
  7. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    2,171
    Everyone seem faster then me :dopey:. How fast can you go with your setting?
     
  8. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Location:
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    That's probly because i've been racing longer than you. I've been a GT2 fan for 2 solid years now...racing almost everyday. God, it's been 2 years? Holy moses, sure doesn't feel like it.

    Anyways, to get a time like 1:41.xxx you have to be almost literally flying around key portions of the track...down the hill espeically is tricky because i get tempted to let off the gas, but this is a key area for me to gain speed. My habit is to coast down the hill during most fast-paced Grand Valley races yet during a time-trial i found if i kept up th speed, it was a great place to lose my ghost-car behind.

    Once you get over that crest, the car wants to keep going right yet you have to force it left then brake solidly at about 100m without hitting grass or clambering over the inner grid. Most of the time, i can't do this textbook-style! In my case, intuition takes over; at times, i am literally attacking corners as they come because my Jag was barely behaving...that's how hard i was pushing this car.

    I guess that's why i like settings that are more relaxed. This also comes in handy during sim races when you are forced to attack corners from the inside rather than a straight out-in-out because there's a braindead sim car behind you who will clobber your car if you stay on the outside.

    Sucahyo's back with those drag-race settings again :D No wonder you get so much oversteer, dude...with your car all jacked up like it is! I noticed that down the hill it so wanted to fly...downforce was the only thing keeping it from doing so. Still, i quickly got used to the Suca-mobile. Within a couple laps, i could predict the way it would get a bit loose in slower corners and kept off the gas. I could manage a 1:43.xxx at best. Probly coulda done better if i were more persistent but i foudn that i simply couldn't hammer the throttle in Suca's car out of the 3 hairpins and chicanes without getting wheelspin and drama.
     
  9. Stingray-Man

    Stingray-Man

    Messages:
    114
    This looks fun! I am going to actually get a chance to tune my Jag, because I am on spring break and going on a trip. I will be in Hilton Head SC. for the next four days. And, of course I am bringing my PS-one with the LCD screen and car Jack. I remember the days of having to count ABC's on signs for entertainment:crazy: on long trips, but no more. I will be playing GT2 most of the time:) I am not driving and should have a decently tuned Jag to share with you come March 7th, upon my return. How ironic, when I am taking a break from driving, I'll be driving in GT:boggled: :lol: . Wish me luck, this will be my first Setup vs. Setup of many to come, hopefully. Hopefully, I will get to compete in my second enduro as well, as I have only done the Apricot hill race against the GT-40. -Won it with the Sting-ray '69, big surprise, huh?:D Is there any enduro competitive enough to be fun racing my fully tuned Jag XJR-15?
     
  10. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    I think I will spend some time learning this track :).

    You think it's too oversteer? I make it oversteer with 12/16 spring to make the car turning better after adjusting LSD, I guess it's the wrong choice. I revert the LSD to 1/1/56 and spring to 12/12 and add some rear stability (stabilizer = 1/7). I think I will retune my setting again.

    Yes :).
     
  11. AngelCreator

    AngelCreator

    Messages:
    2,276
    :lol:

    Me i've be on GT2 for about 4+ years.

    Well, back to work.
    1:42:023 Tuned/Normal Tires
    With the settings i used, the car now is very neutral handles very good.
    The speed at with i can push the car is fast, it's not bad for 470HP:).
    Here are my settings.

    16.0/14.0
    55/55
    4/4
    3/3
    3.0/1.0
    0.00/0.00
    6/6
    3.250
    2.200
    1.575
    1.250
    1.000
    0.825
    3.150
    22
    0.62/0.95
    10
    30
    20​

    1:40:086 Tuned/Super Soft Tires
    Same settings as before just much higher corning speed and less wheel spin.
    If it had more HP, it would easily beat the bigger race cars(:idea:Hybrid).
     
  12. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    what about the camber setting AngelCreator?
     
  13. AngelCreator

    AngelCreator

    Messages:
    2,276
    :dunce:i added that to my settings now:dunce:.
    And there 3.0 Front/1.0 Back.
     
  14. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    Hmm, You use almost the same camber setting as Parnelli Bone. I think I will try to use camber too to make my car more slippery so I can drive it more relax, my car is too tight :ouch:.
     
  15. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Location:
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    Well, it's not Aston Martin or musclecar oversteer...it's not wildly out of control, but it also makes your car more of a “point and shoot” type. In other words, i would need to steer it to the right place, wait a split second, and THEN hit the gas. I found my Jag a bit more flexible here. On the other hand, your car doesn't understeer as much as mine; that's the trade-off. The lowered front-end kills alot of understeer but also makes it very grippy. At times, i would steer and the entire car would ‘dance’ because the back would hop a bit. By the way, i just tried your car again and got down to 1:42.946.
     
  16. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    10,431
    Location:
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    I hope you're not driving while your driving. :O hee hee

    What kinda tires were you using on your Stingray by the way? I've done this race many times against the GT40...even in lugs like the Mercedes Benz AMG C43 or whatever it's called and '67 Mercury Cougar. You can still win against the GT40 even on sport tires.

    I would try driving the Jag XJR-15 in the Rome enduro. Your car will be at a disadvantage with the power, but if your cornering is good you might still win, even against the Toyota GT-1 because your pitstops won't be as frequent as they would be in a heavier car. I would try using soft or medium tires here.
     
  17. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    10,431
    Location:
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    Also just tried Angel's car. 1:43.533...surprised me but after 5 laps i couldn't get lower than this, i kept having issues with braking into corners and every bump i hit gets magnified with your settings. Maybe cuz of the lowered suspension and stiffer springs...i did notice that down the straight, Angel's Jag kept outpacing Sucayho's (which wound up being the ghost car while i was driving with Angel's settings) but by the 2nd hairpin, Sucahyo's settings proved superior in my hands for some reason. That's funny, i thought it would wind up being the otehr way around!
     
  18. AngelCreator

    AngelCreator

    Messages:
    2,276
    @Sucahyo
    I would like it if you could put Grindelwald on your track list. And if we could
    have the GT1 Race at Trial Mountain as the next setup, that would be nice:).

    Well i tryed Parnelli settings and this is the lap time i pulled.

    1:40:864

    It's a good setup, but for me i could not push it as hard as mine.
    And i got a new time with my setup.

    1:39:893

    I all so made a hybrid and tried for a time and this is the time i got.

    1:34:758 Tuned Super Soft Tires Hybrid with 778HP
    With this much HP, the car will do 200MPH+ on this track.
    And the handling will keep up with the HP too. Wheel spin is a little more,
    but it's still easy to drive.
     
  19. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    Ok,
    I still learning this track, and I find that I can learn faster using different setting. So I drive with everyone car :). I still tuning my car, right now experimenting with LSD and damper, I am thinking to change my spring and ride height too. This is fun :).
    I feel your car a bit jumpy too AngelCreator, maybe the ride height is too low (car bottoming exist in GT2 too), the car is definitely better on slow corner than mine, but on fast corner the car feel more understeer than Parnelli Bone's. Do the key of this car tuning is the compromise between low speed control vs highspeed understeer?

    Ok,
    I have done some retuning, I increase my front height from 55 to 65 to improve handling on uphill-downhill 3rd/4th corner. I reverse the stabilizer to hopefully reduce the point and shoot effect. I also change my gear to the little faster one.
     
  20. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    You got 1:40.864 with my settings? Awesome. I must be doing something right :)
     
  21. AngelCreator

    AngelCreator

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    2,276
    Yeah as i said, it's a good setup but for me i just can't push it
    as hard as mine. But maybe i can get a faster time if i try very hard.

    And here is something to think about, what if we do this on GT4, than we all
    can get better on tuning are cars. Just an idea:).
     
  22. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    Too bad I don't have GT4. But I know this:
    • tranny trick works.
    • ride height trick is different, low front high rear has faster acceleration in GT2, high front low rear reach higher top speed in GT4.
    • spring rate trick works.

    I think I will test all setting by driving it with load&save to see how each setting will help my driving.
     
  23. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    I don't have GT4 yet. I'm only about halfway thru gT3 matter of fact.
     
  24. AngelCreator

    AngelCreator

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    2,276


    You both don't have GT4....:(.
     
  25. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    2,171
    This is the my driving (load&save, auto trans) with all setting:
    Code:
    setting        my time  AI time
    ===============================
    Sucahyo        41.142   46.343
    Parnelli Bone  42.701   47.064
    AngelCreator   42.831   47.323
    
    I am just not good enough in some tricky low speed corner, so my setting weakness in slow corner do not affect me much. As I feel you all's setting more understeer on fast corner where I can do better, I can't get as much speed as mine. The end result make my driving faster using my setting, then Parnelli Bones's, then AngelCreator's. The AI seem prefer my setting, maybe AI like oversteer more.
    AngelCreator setting feel really good in slow corner, I have less tendency to spin, but in fast corner I have to reduce the speed more. Parnelli Bone setting is a bit harder on slow corner, but also better in fast corner.

    Yes, but I am already a member of 300mph club :O (by using my friend PS2 for two hours :) ). Although getting into the list I need to borrow it again :(.
     
  26. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Yup, no GT4...that's why we're always here. :) Angel are you using full Analog controls or buttons? I know Sucahyo uses full buttons since he races on his computer.

    Hey, it's nice to see we can all beat the Ai's autopilot mode :) that's pretty sweet. Anyone up for another setup vs. setup? I am. Or if you wanna stay here, it's fine. I wanna try a setup at Rome Nite. Anyone else wanna choose the car? No Speed 12 or Excuse-o please.
     
  27. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    2,171
    Ok, go ahead
    R390 GT1 Race car '97?
     
  28. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Okay, how about we not push it past 400 hp, though, deal? I aint tryin to break my thumbs
     
  29. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    2,171
    Sorry, wrong car, we can't put FC suspension or change amy suspension setting. What car you have in mind?
     
  30. AngelCreator

    AngelCreator

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    2,276
    I use both, i play on the computer to but i use a Logitech Dual Action
    controller. I use analog for streering and the buttons for gas/brake.

    How about the Shelby Cobra Coupe, it only makes 387HP...i think.