Sexual Harassment

Discussion in 'Opinions & Current Events' started by WhoosierGirl, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    I find it interesting that there is.......nary a whisper of discussion here about the amount of actors, directors, movie and music producers, journalists and politicians accused of sexual harassment recently, these stories lead almost every news cast recently and there is nothing here. I'm curious not about the stories themselves but, why the lack of interest from those that seem to share opinions on all subject, except this one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
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  2. Blood Eagle

    Blood Eagle

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    .

    **Edit** Post no longer relevant since OP changed the whole premise of the thread.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
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  3. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    And you think that why?

    I find it interesting and I'm curious why no discussion about it.
     
  4. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    For some reason the title seems, in my opinion, to be...

    rubbish. Why not just complete the sentence?

    So why make a thread asking other people to be? ;)
     
  5. Joey D

    Joey D Premium

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    There are lots of world events that never get discusses in an existing thread or have a thread made about them.

    However, there was nothing stopping you from creating a thread regarding the topic when it first crept up in the news. So why did you wait so long before making one? Why didn't you discuss it? See that doesn't really work too well, does it?

    Creating a thread that insinuates that no one here cares about sexual harassment isn't a good way to get people talking about it either.

    With regards to the sexual harassment in the entertainment industry, my only question is why did so many of them wait so long to tell their story? Especially the guy that accused Kevin Spacey. Why wait over 30 years to come forward? That makes no sense to me. Not saying it excuses Spacey, but it does raise some questions about the validity of it. It's difficult for anyone to recount an event that took place so long ago in enough detail for me to say without a doubt it's factual. The other question is why was Rapp at a party full of adult actors when he was 14? That seems strange as well.

    Obviously, there are several cases that are pretty clear cut going on right now.
     
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  6. Blood Eagle

    Blood Eagle

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    Because your first post in the thread states, "I'm curious not about the stories themselves but...". I feel like this discussion would be better if the thread were about the accusations themselves not about GTP's seemingly collective preference to not really talk about it.

    I will say about the allegations and stories themselves are not at all surprising to me. Actors/Directors/Politicians etc are mostly insane and have no real connection to regular people. These people have self serving careers and want to be adored by millions of people worldwide. Massive wealth and adoration make people insane and the boundaries for what is acceptable to them becomes massively blurred. It's no excuse but money and power are a bad combo.

    ETA - GTP opinion section megaposters in general are some of the most astute posters I've ever seen on hobby based internet forums. It's hard to understand if you are new to the section but you must pick and choose wisely what message you are trying to convey and if your posts don't have a real direction, GTP will use your own words against you (which is happening here). You have to have a real clear goal for the thread. If this is going to be a discussion about sexual harassment and assault allegations against Hollywood elites, please change the OP and name of the thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  7. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    There's your answer. Threads get made more slowly when they're about a particular theme than about a specific news event, and none of the stories motivated anyone to make a thread about the event itself. I'm not sure we care enough about Matt Lauer for example. As for the theme, I can only tell you why I personally haven't created one. It mainly centers around the discussions I've had in person about these events in which I didn't feel like I could bring anything new or interesting the to table. Each of the incidents is horrible, Hollywood seems to be a few decades behind the rest of the country on this, and I generally just agree with what others say about it, and express the general sentiment that I'm glad it all seems to be coming out. Seems like progress.

    I did bring up Terry Crews's accusations in the America thread because I misread the headline and I thought that the misreading revealed some interesting biases of mine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  8. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    We had this in the Britain thread, after Weinstein was expelled from the British Film Institute in October:
    And "accused" is the right word.

    As far as I can make out, a lot of people are being accused of sexual misconduct, and being fired from this, that and the other, but precious few legal cases - either criminal or civil - seem to be happening. I find the Kevin Spacey thing particularly bizarre as, although yes, imposing yourself onto a 14-year old boy is Bad, and then defending that by saying you're gay now is weird, no actual sexual contact seems to have occurred and Spacey has now lost pretty much every future line of work. And there's a whole bunch of films now that won't be on television ever again, including American Beauty, The Usual Suspects and Se7en, but that's beside the point somewhat.

    Some of the cases against Weinstein seem to be quite rapey. However, several of the reported rapes seem to be a rich, powerful man pressuring younger women who believe they need to impress him into having sex with him - and there are myriad stories of him being exceptionally sleazy (and some quite threatening) but taking no to mean no (eventually).

    Yeah, the pressuring is bad, and the implied use of power is bad, but "Hey babe, if you **** me it'll help your career" followed by "Okay" isn't rape. Unless the implication is that women cannot give consent under those conditions, or any condition where the other person is using any persuasion, which is pretty insulting to women - and pretty frightening for men, because now even yes might mean no...

    Don't get me wrong, if Weinstein, or Spacey, or any of the dozens of alleged abusers turn out to have had sex with someone who's said no, they absolutely need to face punishment for it - but aside from a handful of cases against Weinstein, I'm not aware of any legal action against anyone yet. Innocent until proven guilty is, I believe, still A Thing.


    These accusations aren't just killing careers either. They're killing men - at least two so far, it seems. Carl Sergeant was suspended from his position as a Welsh Assembly Minister after sexual misconduct allegations and, without ever being allowed to know what they were, apparently hanged himself in the home he shared with his wife and two children. A second, unnamed Labour party member appears to have killed himself after being suspended over the alleged discovery of pornography on his office computer.

    On the flip side, the rumours about Jimmy Savile were well-known within his lifetime and never acted upon until after he died - and had they been listened to 25 years earlier, he wouldn't have been able to abuse thousands of children.
     
  9. Biggles

    Biggles

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    Actually, I had, for a while, been considering starting a thread about "Sexual Harassment" - it was glaringly conspicuous by its absence. I think we all know (or should know) why it hasn't been a priority on GTPlanet. I don't know why you would claim not to be curious about the stories - it's an extremely important subject. Go ahead & introduce it properly ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
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  10. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    Why didn't you?

    Why is that?
     
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  11. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    That is exactly why I asked, I have posted here, not much but, I do. I have been here for going on 5 years and I find the discussions here to be refreshing, honestly I believe some here are as you say the most astute on internet forums. This is why I asked what I asked, I have no clear goal other than to understand why this doesn't have traction here, that's really

    I haven’t looked at the current events thread in the last few months and the subject was brought up at work today and I was curious to read what opinions were here and was surprised that there was nothing. I wrote what I felt nothing more.

    I don’t think I insinuated nobody cared, I believe I insinuated nobody had discussed the matter and I would like to know why.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  12. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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    While I am sure that several cases will turn out to be actual rape cases, or at least harassment, I really think that a lot, as in most of them are because of this:

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    It's a quagmire of allegations, power and when consent doesn't qualify as consent. I've got a feeling that most see a story pop up on the news and think "Oh no, not another one", and put their ten-foot barge pole away, just to make sure.

    On the bright side "male privilege" seems to be a rapidly quietening phrase at the moment.
     
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  14. WhoosierGirl

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    The reason I said I’m not curious about the allegations is my question is not about the cases but about the lack of the topic here and why that is.

    This is what I would like to know because I don’t know what this means.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  15. Carbonox

    Carbonox

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    Please do fill all us uninformed minds in.
     
  16. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    Ok, I will. I am not the one who posted they knew the reason why.
     
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  17. Carbonox

    Carbonox

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    My bad, though wrapping it in appropriate quote tags would've made it much clearer it wasn't your statement.
     
  18. Liquid

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    Lack of surprise = Lack of interest

    ?
     
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  19. LeMansAid

    LeMansAid

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    Yep, and for me it follows that taking away the celebrity care-factor (as may well be appropriate when speaking of such members) there's only really a run-of-the-mill story going on.

    It's not "meh" because no-one here cares about sexual misdeeds, it's "meh" because without being enamoured by the supposed glitz and glamour it's just part of a massive grey mire of situations being played out every day, in all walks of life, all over the world.
     
  20. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    This seemed relevant here. There was a brief discussion that ensued in that thread. Granted this is kindof a meta-discussion about his (alleged?) crimes. Not so much specifically about any incident but about the themes and (sexist) inferences that ensued.

    I do seem to recall a fair amount of Roman Polanski talk here a few years back.
     
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  21. Liquid

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    There was a fair amount of discussion when the Jimmy Savile scandal came about.
     
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  22. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    I wonder more about you and your prompt want to discuss about the people on a forum that don't want to discuss it in its own thread. I recall the America thread having some bits on it and so on. No one made a thread about Jim Nabors passing but you don't see me getting uppity about the lack of awareness for the great Gomer Pyle actor's passing.

    In general perhaps there isn't much to discuss, perhaps there has been plenty of discussion on it in other threads and you're just not aware of it. I feel this is more of a goading to see what challenge you can get rather than pure curiosity. There are plenty of big events that go without a thread cause other people are waiting for someone else to make it due to laziness or whatever else.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  23. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Staff Emeritus

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    This is the part that I end up focusing on most. So much of all of this sounds pretty ghastly — specifically the various accounts of Weinstein — and undoubtedly is an abuse of power and sexual harassment (if true). But "rape"? I don't know. Though from memory, I don't think I've seen that word thrown around as often as I've seen general sexual harassment. My source lately is predominantly Phil DeFranco, FWIW.

    How do you prove someone did something they didn't want to do, when they did do it, in the past? Can you change your mind about consent after the fact? I mean, I'd certainly argue that you can change your mind after initial consent, if things suddenly veer into territory you aren't comfortable with. But is there a time limit? A list of qualifications for when a yes is no longer a yes?

    Ultimately, sexual harassment is an issue of unwanted sexual attention. I've no reason to doubt any of the women (and men) that have come forward so far. It's just made me think about where the crossover is between sexual assault, coercion, and rape. Not that that's even remotely an excuse for what some of these people have done: it's mostly, for me anyway, about being very clear about their actions. I hate having to pull the dictionary card (especially for it being on my browser history):

    Emphasis my own. Is the threat of injury solely physical? Because there's obvious emotional/psychological damage. And, if it's a "sleep with me for the job" situation, it's arguably the threat of financial damage too. And that brings us to deception...

    Also, can we all agree it's more than a little odd that we're seeing such a strong response from so many people about this this year, but a year ago, people elected someone accused of much the same thing as the president of the freaking USA?!

    And @Danoff brings up what I believe is a very interesting point: when I first heard about all of this, and then Terry Crews' name floated up, my very first thought was "oh no, not Terry, Terry loves yogurt never struck me as the type to assault women". It was only after I read an article that I realized he was the victim of sexual assault — and I think that says a lot, about both the people doing this, and myself. Whether we like it or not, a lot of us do have pre-conceived notions about this sort of thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  24. Biggles

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    Time constraints. I'm only am amateur poster, not a semi-professional like yourself.

    I think some of the subsequent posts on this thread make that clear. On a forum with 90% - 99% (?) male participation, it seems like a topic that doesn't arouse a huge amount of interest, unlike "Aliens", "The Earth is Flat?" or our perennial favourite: "Guns". I can guarantee you that on a female dominated forum the topic would be front & center right now.

    It's not just an issue effecting politicians, or Hollywood celebrities or media personalities. It profoundly effects many millions of ordinary women in their day-to-day lives:

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/10/15/16438750/weinstein-sexual-harassment-facts

    Having said that, some of the weird details of these celebrity cases are certainly worthy of comment on their own salacious merits.
     
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  25. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    [​IMG]


    Well, gun control actually has like... a raging debate. What's the debate with these sexual harassment cases? Someone gets accused, facts exist (or don't), and hopefully justice is done. It's not particularly interesting because it's so one-sided. Who's sticking up for Harvey Weinstein?

    The Earth is Flat is just fun. There's nothing fun about sexual harassment (south park's panda aside).

    Comeon, that's sexist.
     
  26. Biggles

    Biggles

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    That really is the whole point: justice hasn't been done. A tiny fraction of sexual harassment cases get reported, a smaller number get prosecuted. In many cases the victim is too intimidated to report, carries on & suffers career discrimination & further harassment. The fact that a number of high profile men have recently been taken down as a result of harassment allegations is pretty much a first & is considered a pivotal moment by many women.
     
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  27. KungFury

    KungFury (Banned)

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    You could always just listen to the Alex Jones show.
     
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  28. UKMikey

    UKMikey

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    Morrissey the singer, although I suspect he's trolling for attention like I think the flat earth rappers are. He's mercifully sworn off print interviews after this deeply unpleasant episode.
     
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  29. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    Yea, this is progress for Hollywood. Justice is being done. Yay!
     
  30. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    I think I have made it clear why I asked what I asked, you can believe me or not. You can think my question is "uppity" or I'm "goading for a challenge" but, you would be wrong and I don't think I could change your mind, and that is fine with me. I am a very curious person and the reason's why a subject may or may not be of interest to people sometimes interests me more than the actual subject.
     
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