Sexual Harassment

[Northstar]

All of those quite rightly conclude that it's abusive and not okay. You quote them as if they're saying somehow that it's okay?

It's like you two are intentionally trying to not get my point, so let me try something else.

What would your reaction be if a media outlets regularly showed men striking women?

 

[TexRex]

I don't think made-up people can be said to represent anyone's opinion.

I do. A fictional individual can be used to voice the views of its creator, just as it can be used to represent opposing views if statements made are done so in a blatantly satirical manner (Dr. Stephen T. Colbert D.F.A. springs to mind). A fictional character cannot, however, represent their own opinion.

So what about the women slapping men in media thing I brought up? Where is the outcry over that?

It probably exists, and may be akin to outcries over video games promoting violence.

What would your reaction be if a media outlets regularly showed men striking women?

Don't they? It's a common dramatic device. And while I realize it's likely being used as such, rather than as a statement that the behavior is okay, I don't think it, nor the inverse, is appropriate.

 

[KungFury]

Don't they? It's a common dramatic device. And while I realize it's likely being used as such, rather than as a statement that the behavior is okay, I don't think it, nor the inverse, is appropriate.

Women who hit men are usually portrayed as the good guy while men hitting women generally are the bad guy or the villain. Oh well, there will always be a double standard when it comes to women and men, that's why they are women

 

[UKMikey]

It's like you two are intentionally trying to not get my point

When I state something as a fact rather than as an opinion, I try to back it up with verifiable links and fact check it. As far as I know the AUP requires we do this.

What would your reaction be if a media outlets regularly showed men striking women?

I'd munch popcorn while I waited for their audience rating to decline and dwindle. I don't see how it'd be representative of society's views on what level of physical abuse is acceptable.

I do. A fictional individual can be used to voice the views of its creator, just as it can be used to represent opposing views if statements made are done so in a blatantly satirical manner (Dr. Stephen T. Colbert D.F.A. springs to mind). A fictional character cannot, however, represent their own opinion.

Batman's or whoever's opinion may coincide with someone else's but I don't think it's a verification that a majority of people hold or accept those views which is what I originally meant to say.

 

[TexRex]

I don't think it's a verification that a majority of people hold or accept those views

The same can be said of any non-fictional individual's opinion. Actually, since these fictional characters are typically delivered to the public through a media entity, it's a safe bet that someone in a position to decide whether or not these characters get to be seen by the public aligns themselves with the opinions, even if they claim to be detached. Moreover, if differing opinions results in financial contributors no longer funding programming or publication of these fictional characters, retention of said contributors may well indicate they align themselves with those opinions.

Mind you I'm not saying any of this applies to the fictional character that got the topic rolling--I didn't even click the link--I'm merely responding to the statement you made. I believe a fictional character's views reflect those of real individuals.

 

[Northstar]

When I state something as a fact rather than as an opinion, I try to back it up with verifiable links and fact check it. As far as I know the AUP requires we do this.

And I apologized for that, what more do you want?

I'd munch popcorn while I waited for their audience rating to decline and dwindle. I don't see how it'd be representative of society's views on what level of physical abuse is acceptable.

Would you do the same thing in the reverse case and the woman was slapping a man around in lighthearted fashion?

Batman's or whoever's opinion may coincide with someone else's but I don't think it's a verification that a majority of people hold or accept those views which is what I originally meant to say.

You are the only person that has mentioned a majority, everyone else has been talking smaller numbers.

 

[WhoosierGirl]

Why can't you change my mind, this is based on the premise, rather than simply setting up the thread and having engaging conversation come about it from something you initiated, you went a different way. Now if you are simply asking a question rather than trying to make a point then sure you've changed my mind. However, I'm basing this off things I've seen you say on some of the other threads in this sub forum that give me the slight idea you were perhaps annoyed or disturbed by it not being a subject of discussion.

Outside of that I did give you reasons for why it probably didn't get made, which were to answer your question on the basis it was simple curiosity.



Same and why I posed my initial post the way I did. It came across as "hey I expected this subject to be talked about, but I'm shocked it's not and find it strange the community hasn't. What's the problem?"

The OP has since said she wasn't aiming for that and more so simply asking a general question of why.

I hope I have changed your mind that I wasn't trying to make a point or was in anyway annoyed or disturbed, I don't think I've ever been either here in the past.

And this is exactly why I haven hesitated to really get involved in this issue, because I'm still confused as hell.

Being confused on the subject is exactly why you should be involved in this issue.

Kissing someone is rape? Honestly, how diluted has the definition of rape become? I honestly don't know how to have a geniune conversation on this topic when some of the basic terms central to the topic at hand have massively inconsistent and overly broad definitions (at least according to some of the parties involved, from what I can gather).

No kissing someone is not rape, kissing someone without consent would be sexual assault. If a person of whatever sex randomly hits another person of whatever sex it's assault, a person randomly grabs the genitals of someone of either sex it's sexual assault. Sexual harassment is physical or verbal harassment of a sexual nature, a coworker tells you they are going to beat you up it's harassment, they tell you they are going to beat you up and have sex with you it's sexual harassment.

On one hand, coming out of many left leaning media outlets, we see the pledge to stop violence against women. Cool, I'm 100% on board with that (as long as said women are also doing their part to help prevent violence)

Other than reporting an assault or harassment immediately, how do women do their part to prevent violence?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I hope I have changed your mind that I wasn't trying to make a point or was in anyway annoyed or disturbed, I don't think I've ever been either here in the past.

Changed my mind? Nothing to change, I saw your initial post yet again and it seemed you had the goal of finding a conversation about sexual assault in entertainment or starting one. However, when you found one not to be around you then posed a question that seemed to get at the social dichotomy of the forum. Which I found to be strange and lacking since this topic has been brought up in other threads as I said. My post was to understand what exactly you wanted, either a conversation about what's going on in the entertainment industry, gtp's "lack of care" on the matter (which it doesn't lack), or somewhere in between.

 

[Kurei]

I'm a bit privileged in that I've been able to come to know Whoosier a little bit better than most here (outside of 1 other member), and I think she honestly just wanted to know why there wasn't a more 'focused' discussion of the subject, we got a thread for Space, multiple threads for countries, Guns, Aliens, the list goes on... so why not this topic? It is becoming more prevalent in the workplace - whether you're a nurse or an auto-tech or whatever profession.

She was just curious, but some of you could do with getting off that high horse. Just my 2 cents.

 

[WhoosierGirl]

Changed my mind? Nothing to change, I saw your initial post yet again and it seemed you had the goal of finding a conversation about sexual assault in entertainment or starting one. However, when you found one not to be around you then posed a question that seemed to get at the social dichotomy of the forum. Which I found to be strange and lacking since this topic has been brought up in other threads as I said. My post was to understand what exactly you wanted, either a conversation about what's going on in the entertainment industry, gtp's "lack of care" on the matter (which it doesn't lack), or somewhere in between.

So I posted several times why I posted the question I did, and you don’t agree with the question and/or why I asked it in the first place. That’s fine with me you feel that way as I have already stated so it seems a good idea to agree we don’t agree and leave it there.

 

[TexRex]

I think she honestly just wanted to know why there wasn't a more 'focused' discussion of the subject, we got a thread for Space, multiple threads for countries, Guns, Aliens, the list goes on... so why not this topic?

Yeah, there's "a thread for Space, multiple threads for countries, Guns, Aliens, the list goes on..." and they exist because when someone who deemed them important enough to be here, they created them--they didn't ask why the threads weren't here.

She was just curious

Does that warrant its own thread?

 

[twitcher]

No kissing someone is not rape, kissing someone without consent would be sexual assault. If a person of whatever sex randomly hits another person of whatever sex it's assault, a person randomly grabs the genitals of someone of either sex it's sexual assault. Sexual harassment is physical or verbal harassment of a sexual nature, a coworker tells you they are going to beat you up it's harassment, they tell you they are going to beat you up and have sex with you it's sexual harassment.

Did you miss the article that was linking which equated kissing someone under a mistletoe without consent to rape?

These are not my definitions. I know what rape is, and I know it's wrong. What I don't understand is the recent trend of conflating things like a non consensual kiss with rape. It would be sexual assault, but not rape. But that's not what the link on the previous page says.

So according to your definition, a kick to the shins is Assault, but a kick to the inner thigh would be sexual assault? A knee to the stomach is Assault, a knee to the groin is sexual assault?

See, you define sexual assault as assault of a sexual nature. What is "a sexual nature?" Seems a little vague.

Is twisting the nipple of a female sexual assault? Is twisting the nipple of a male sexual assault?

That's a really silly example, but it gets back to my original point in this thread. What's the difference between sexual assault/harassment, and the non sexual kind. And why is one seen as worse than the other?

Other than reporting an assault or harassment immediately, how do women do their part to prevent violence?

The same thing every human can do to take steps to prevent being the victim of violence. Always be aware of your surroundings and company, know self defense, things like that. I'm not implying someone who doesn't know self defense deserves to be a victim, not at all. Just saying that every individual can take steps to protect themselves.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm a bit privileged in that I've been able to come to know Whoosier a little bit better than most here (outside of 1 other member), and I think she honestly just wanted to know why there wasn't a more 'focused' discussion of the subject, we got a thread for Space, multiple threads for countries, Guns, Aliens, the list goes on... so why not this topic? It is becoming more prevalent in the workplace - whether you're a nurse or an auto-tech or whatever profession.

She was just curious, but some of you could do with getting off that high horse. Just my 2 cents.

The lack of a thread doesn't mean lack of interest, point is if she posted it up I'm sure she'd have had engaging conversation. We don't have threads on everything because some times it easier to just have ongoing conversation about it in a current thread. Or others interested are waiting for someone else to do it cause they don't want to. Like the America thread, had some conversation on it because people felt it was a U.S. only issue and felt it easier to post and talk there on it.

So as @TexRex said it is simply people posting what they want to post, not that a certain subject has no care or place on the forums. That's silly if people actually feel that way.

So I posted several times why I posted the question I did, and you don’t agree with the question and/or why I asked it in the first place. That’s fine with me you feel that way as I have already stated so it seems a good idea to agree we don’t agree and leave it there.

No, if you say you're simply curious that's fine, I believe you in that sense. That doesn't neglect the fact that you did have an interest of some sort beyond that to see the conversation happen in regards to this subject. Why else post a thread if you weren't looking to achieve something of that sort. Me saying there isn't anything to change my mind on is just that, I didn't have come in here having a perspective on this topic needing to be changed.

 

[ryzno]

In Louis CK's case, the allegations came on the opening night of his new film, which was pulled without ever being shown as a result.

Well he did admit it, a day two later... Saying it was time for him to sit back and listen.

That said, no one has been legally convicted...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Is twisting the nipple of a female sexual assault? Is twisting the nipple of a male sexual assault?

If the twistee sees it as such, yes, in both cases.

The same thing every human can do to take steps to prevent being the victim of violence. Always be aware of your surroundings and company, know self defense, things like that. I'm not implying someone who doesn't know self defense deserves to be a victim, not at all. Just saying that every individual can take steps to protect themselves.

Er, that's not quite what you said:

We see the pledge to stop violence against women. Cool, I'm 100% on board with that (as long as said women are also doing their part to help prevent violence).

Parsing that, you're saying you're on board stopping violence against women if they take what you deem appropriate steps to protect themselves. What if they don't?

Personally, I don't think women should have to know self defence for violence against them to stop. And, I think it's unfortunately safe to argue that even if they do/have, it hasn't always stopped the violence from happening anyway.

 

[UKMikey]

And I apologized for that, what more do you want?

You asked me to comment on your other opinion that female violence against women was widely accepted because the media shows it regularly. Still waiting for a citation.

Would you do the same thing in the reverse case and the woman was slapping a man around in lighthearted fashion?

In the reverse case women would be slapping men around on a regular basis so yes, I'd wait to see whether people deemed it morally acceptable or not. There'd need to be a significant amount of those people to affect my opinion that it isn't.

You are the only person that has mentioned a majority, everyone else has been talking smaller numbers.

If that's the case then there's not much I can do to shut down someone's minority opinion. I'm not sure what more you want me to say.

 

[twitcher]

If the twistee sees it as such, yes, in both cases.

So male nipples are sexual now? Why are the allowed in public?

And if pinching a male nipple is sexual assault, wouldn't pinching a male arm be sexual assault? What is more sexual about a male nipple verses a male arm?

How far up someone's leg can you punch or kick them before it transitions from regular assault to sexual assault. Is up to the kickee to decide how far up their leg their sexual zone starts?

If one person tackles another person, does it transition from regular assault to sexual assault if they end up in a north/south position on the ground?

Again, what's the difference between regular assault and sexual assault, other than the victim saying it was somehow sexual?

Er, that's not quite what you said:


Parsing that, you're saying you're on board stopping violence against women if they take what you deem appropriate steps to protect themselves. What if they don't?

Personally, I don't think women should have to know self defence for violence against them to stop. And, I think it's unfortunately safe to argue that even if they do/have, it hasn't always stopped the violence from happening anyway.

I did also say this, in case anyone wanted to read what I said as "people who don't know self defense deserve to be assaulted", or "I'm only willing to help people women if they take what I deam to be appropriate steps"....come on, what kind of asshole do you take me for.

The same thing every human can do to take steps to prevent being the victim of violence. Always be aware of your surroundings and company, know self defense, things like that. I'm not implying someone who doesn't know self defense deserves to be a victim, not at all. Just saying that every individual can take steps to protect themselves.

I also wouldn't argue that any kind of self defense is going to prevent any and all assault from happening. I can agree with the arguement that men in general should behave differently towards women, and perhaps that would lower violence against women. But I'm coming from the position that we're not in a situation where men are just generally assaulting and raping women - I know far more men who don't assault and rape women than who do. It is specific men who are doing these things. There's not really much I can personally do to stop some Hollywood actor from forcing himself on the latest young starlet. That starlet though, if they know self defense techniques, they at least increase their chance of getting out with less harm done to them.

 

[TenEightyOne]

So male nipples are sexual now? Why are the allowed in public?

And if pinching a male nipple is sexual assault, wouldn't pinching a male arm be sexual assault? What is more sexual about a male nipple verses a male arm?

How far up someone's leg can you punch or kick them before it transitions from regular assault to sexual assault. Is up to the kickee to decide how far up their leg their sexual zone starts?

If I kicked you really hard in the knackers that wouldn't be a sexual assualt. It's down to what is done to where, not solely where the where actually is.

 

[photonrider]

…………XsnipX....come on, what kind of asshole do you take me for.

X….snipX

Easy now. No need for the verbal harassment. While many of the questions you pose are valid enough to warrant discussion, you only shadow the limelight of their credibility by sullying it with personalizing yourself unnecessarily. Opinions can't be proved. Facts can.
Just a friendly suggestion . . ...👍

 

[twitcher]

Easy now. No need for the verbal harassment. While many of the questions you pose are valid enough to warrant discussion, you only shadow the limelight of their credibility by sullying it with personalizing yourself unnecessarily. Opinions can't be proved. Facts can.
Just a friendly suggestion . . ...👍

"What kind of asshole do you take me for" is kind of an expression, at least where I live. It's not exactly a serious expression.

And if you think that is verbal harassment....

Edit:

If I kicked you really hard in the knackers that wouldn't be a sexual assualt. It's down to what is done to where, not solely where the where actually is.

According to what's been said in this thread, wouldn't it be sexual assault if I decided it was sexual assault?

If you pet my knackers (wierd!), that's sexual assault...but if you kick them hard, it's not? That doesn't make logical sense to me. What about a really hard pet of the knackers - is that sexual assault or regular assault?

A closed fist punch to the knackers is assault, but an open palm slap is sexual assault?? Where's the line?

If you kick me really hard in the knackers, but give a suggestive wink at the same time, would that make it sexual assault?

If I twist someone's toes, I'd assume that's regular assault. But what if one of us has a foot fetish? Does assault with or of the feet become sexual if one of the parties involved is sexually arroused by feet?

 

[Dotini]

Sexual assault and harassment complaints from psychologically damaged women against powerful men are becoming an international phenomenon. So far, most of the cases seem to involve Harvey Weinstein. Actual rape charges appear to be in the cards in a Manhattan case.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/los-angeles-nyc-london-chase-growing-mass-sex-172837576.html

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Police in London, Los Angeles and New York are working to untangle an ever-growing mass of sexual assault and harassment complaints against powerful men, creating challenges even for big cities used to handling celebrities.

Most of the cases stem from claims against media mogul Harvey Weinstein — but authorities say they've also taken complaints made against other men in power.

"It's an international phenomenon," NYPD Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said when asked about investigations into Weinstein. "These ladies were sexually assaulted, harassed, and they acquired psychological damage, so we have to move very cautiously with anyone who comes in — and that's what we're doing."

 

[Spurgy 777]

Easy now. No need for the verbal harassment. While many of the questions you pose are valid enough to warrant discussion, you only shadow the limelight of their credibility by sullying it with personalizing yourself unnecessarily. Opinions can't be proved. Facts can.
Just a friendly suggestion . . ...👍

I assume you misread what he said, but if not then what? Is he verbally harassing himself or something because he definitely wasn't calling anyone else an asshole?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Sexual assault and harassment complaints from psychologically damaged women against powerful men are becoming an international phenomenon. So far, most of the cases seem to involve Harvey Weinstein. Actual rape charges appear to be in the cards in a Manhattan case.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/los-angeles-nyc-london-chase-growing-mass-sex-172837576.html

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Police in London, Los Angeles and New York are working to untangle an ever-growing mass of sexual assault and harassment complaints against powerful men, creating challenges even for big cities used to handling celebrities.

Most of the cases stem from claims against media mogul Harvey Weinstein — but authorities say they've also taken complaints made against other men in power.

"It's an international phenomenon," NYPD Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said when asked about investigations into Weinstein. "These ladies were sexually assaulted, harassed, and they acquired psychological damage, so we have to move very cautiously with anyone who comes in — and that's what we're doing."

The London angle seems to involve "nine cases". That's far fewer than the 300+ reports associated with just one high-profile media personage in recent years. If Yahoo! really think those nine cases really represent complaints 'becoming a phenomenon' then I'd respectfully suggest that the writers have been living off-grid for quite a long time.

 

[Kurei]

Does that warrant its own thread?

Seeing how the McGregor VS Mayweather thread was started with a pole out of a member's curiosity, I don't see why not?

This thread started-off rocky but people are actively discussing the topic in some manner now, maybe it'll only last another page, maybe not, but I still think it was a bit nutty for some to get all bent out of shape, just because the OP didn't appease some unwritten set of thread-opening-rules.

 

[Joey D]

Other than reporting an assault or harassment immediately, how do women do their part to prevent violence?

For starters they can stop getting back together with abusers. I'll never understand why a female would ever go back to a male who assaulted them physically, mentally, or sexually. My wife worked with a girl who would come in with bruises, black eyes, laceration, etc. from her boyfriend beating her. She'd move in with her mom for a couple days then be right back with him where the same thing would happen again. For the life of me I couldn't understand it.

Also, and I know I'm going to probably get hated on for "blaming the victim" here, but women could stop putting themselves into situations that breed this sort of thing.

Walking alone, in a bad part of town, while wearing a short skirt is not really the smartest thing to do. It doesn't excuse rape obviously, but at the same time people need to be smart about the situations they put themselves in. In an ideal world bad things wouldn't happen, but since we live in reality, we need to identify those things and do something to prevent them.

Another situation would be going to a party and willingly drinking too much alcohol or doing drugs that alter your perception. Weird thing can happen when people are under the influence of those things. Once again, it doesn't excuse rape, but it also goes with not being aware of your surroundings. Date rape drugs are different though since the person didn't willingly ingest them.

 

[Carbonox]

Another situation would be going to a party and willingly drinking too much alcohol or doing drugs that alter your perception. Weird thing can happen when people are under the influence of those things. Once again, it doesn't excuse rape, but it also goes with not being aware of your surroundings. Date rape drugs are different though since the person didn't willingly ingest them.

Never leave your drink unattended basically.

 

[TexRex]

Seeing how the McGregor VS Mayweather thread was started with a pole out of a member's curiosity, I don't see why not?

I'm sure nearly everyone knows about the upcoming August 26th fight so I wanted to see peoples opinions on the topic and how you think the fight will go down.

That user was curious regarding peoples' opinions on the topic--something that can be said for probably 90% of forum threads throughout the interwebs--not why the topic hadn't yet been discussed. Does that warrant its own thread?

I'll never understand why a female would ever go back to a male who assaulted them physically, mentally, or sexually.

In most of the situations I've encountered, those women were with a "man" that treated them the way they and/or their mothers were treated by the "man" in the home in which they were raised. If the position that you don't deserve any better is beaten into you, figuratively and/or literally, you just may start to believe it.

women could stop putting themselves into situations that breed this sort of thing

Like going to work?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Like going to work?

Some situations are unavoidable obviously but everyone should be wary of putting themselves in known high risk situations, that's just common sense. That goes for men and women and all kinds of situations beyond sexual assault as well. No one should be blamed if they are a victim of a crime but that doesn't mean it isn't prudent to identify risky situations and practice some good judgment.

 

[TexRex]

No one should be blamed if they are a victim of a crime but that doesn't mean it isn't prudent to identify risky situations and practice some good judgment.

Of course not, on either count, but with the overarching topic being harassment rather than assault--not that the latter doesn't warrant discussion--unavoidable situations are harder to avoid.

 

[Kurei]

That user was curious regarding peoples' opinions on the topic--something that can be said for probably 90% of forum threads throughout the interwebs--not why the topic hadn't yet been discussed. Does that warrant its own thread?

It's own thread?, I don't know - again I'm not seeing this unwritten set of laws you have, regarding thread-creation at GTPlanet to refer to.

Was she wrong to make a simple post just asking a question, that only became a sub-par thread once others were done judging/mocking her for it in the beginning?, would a status-post on her profile have been a better solution?, or a PM to Jordan? Hell I don't know, do you? - can you truly say you do?, like you got a 'crystal-ball' over there or something.

It would've been simple enough for the first few responses to just answer along the lines of "probably because no one bothered to make a thread for it yet." - "should we have one with the news lately?" - "this can serve as that thread now", but instead they just had to criticize and point-out how 'wrong' she was trying to go about it.