Spoon Sports S2000 Race Car

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 4: Prologue' started by BAZZ, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. BAZZ

    BAZZ

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    Havent seen any thread about this car so, thought id toss one up.
    Well what do you think of it?
    So far this is my fave car in GT4:p. Just handles like a dream.
    What do you think? I cant be lonely. Or? :odd:

    1.38 @ Citta Got to be worth something.
    Can it also be the hardest car to race against the AI with? It made me reaally dislike the Impreza Rally..... :crazy:
     
  2. toler

    toler

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    it sounds even better than it is to handle. i also find it very difficult to beat the AI in it though it´s not impossible. your time at CdA sounds like a pretty fast one :tup:
     
  3. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    :yuck: My impression is that the steering wheel of this car only turns a few degrees ... off course this is a result of the steering assistance in Gran Turismo. But it is felt very hard on this car.
     
  4. toler

    toler

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    maybe you should try and turn off those assists then ;)
     
  5. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    They're always off :)

    I tried the car again for a second impression : OK it turns, but there seems to be something wrong with the gravity of this car! Or it seems to have a considerable higher downforce, as the streetcar S2000, and that without any aerodynamic aids. :tdown:
     
  6. linoleum

    linoleum

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    I questioned that in GT3. I think there may be significant underbody aerodynamic changes to give it such downforce. Maybe someone else can give examples of cars that utilize this technology.
     
  7. JAGUAR

    JAGUAR

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    Even slight aero aids, such as flat bottoms, splitters, venturies etc. can create huge amounts of downforce, compared to a regular road car.

    Most competition cars, such as single seaters, Sportscars, DTM etc. create a significant amount of their downforce under the car.
     
  8. BAZZ

    BAZZ

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    Downforce? Hmm, i thought it was the racing tires that did it. ?
     
  9. wdb

    wdb

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    I like this car, and agree that it makes a better opponent for the AI rally cars. But does anyone know why its stats (displayed in the car selection screen) say it makes peak power (310hp?) at 11,000rpm?

    When you drive it, it only revs to, what, 9,500rpm or something? It doesn't seem to be revving much higher than the standard car... Does it have a rev-limiter that stops it from developing peak power?
     
  10. BAZZ

    BAZZ

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    Hmmm.. Good question..
     
  11. k2racer

    k2racer

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    Well noticed :tup: !

    Actually i was questioning that myself and hope someone comes up with a good answer :idea:
     
  12. yeti

    yeti

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    That'll be the VTEC engine for you... Can you not take it past the 9,500 RPM limit with the overrides (or manual) or does it limit there?

    C.
     
  13. Wads

    Wads

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    No you can't....... a standard S2000 redlines at 9000rpm and the rev limiter cuts in at 9200rpm. I suspect the engine would end up in small bits if it revved to 11000rpm!!!!
     
  14. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    I completely agree, but don't believe that the Spoon S2000 has a modified underside, and I don't see any extractor at the backside.

    Imo it's more a tricked downforce value, to make the car competitive in the game. PD does that more often. In GT3 there was the Trueno with the black engine cover. You could see its high downforce in mk's program, and I'd be surprise if that car had some aerodynamic wonder feature underside that justified that difference.

    But the worst example is the Ford GT40. In reality this car created lift at high speed, but in GT it has a downforce comparable with the prototypes of 30 years later.
    For some real values (including the GT40 Mk2 and Mk4) : http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.html
    (btw the real downforce of more cars featuring in Gran Turismo are described on that very interesting website!)
     
  15. BAZZ

    BAZZ

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    But, the racing tires must help. Atleast to some extent right?
     
  16. Wads

    Wads

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    What makes you say that the Spoon has more downforce?...... have I missed something or is there a part of GT4:p that shows these sorts of statistics?
     
  17. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    Yes, they surely help too!
     
  18. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    No, there are no technical statistics that show this for GT4-P. It's mostly impression, and data from GT3/GTC. If you look how the car behaves, it has this typical attitude that it is too light, there seems to be something wrong with the way it moves, something with the mass, or gravity, or downforce, or a combination of the 3. Doesn't it look like that to you?

    I just checked some downforce values (front - rear) in GT3/GTC with mk's program :

    - normal S2000 (all types) : 0,24 - 0,35
    - Spoon S2000 tuned street car : 0,24 - 0,35
    - Spoon S2000 Race Car : 0,74 - 0,91

    - XJ220 road car, famous as a road car with impressive downforce : 0,38 - 0,60 (I'd be surprised if that S2000 race car had more downforce then this car in real life)

    My other example of a strange gain in downforce without body change :
    - SPRINTER TRUENO GT-APEX : 0,15 - 0,21
    - SPRINTER TRUENO GT-APEX S.S. version : 0,24 - 0,47

    My general impression of the downforce values is that PD is just mudding on a bit : when a car is supposed to be fast, it gets good downforce. Race cars generally get very high DF. There seems to be little relation with real data, which probably would be difficult or even impossible, as these data are often unknown (older cars, tuned cars) or secret (race cars).
     
  19. Wads

    Wads

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    Sorry as I don't know what mk's program is or how it works I don't really understand your information :sick: as far as I understand it downforce can only be measured directly you can't extrapolate a downforce value based on other performance statistics (which I'm guessing mk's program does?).

    From watching the real Spoon S2000 and normal S2000 in various Best Motoring videos I'd say that the differences in handling you describe are very realistic and more to do with enhanced performance from better tyres, extra power, suspension and reduced weight than increased downforce (although the Spoon does have better downforce than the road car its not that different)...... or am I completely mis-reading your post?
     
  20. linoleum

    linoleum

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    mk's program allows you to read the values set for each car in GT3. [and manipulate the data as well, ie: building hybrids]
     
  21. Wads

    Wads

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    Ahhh I see..... so it looks like PDs physics model in GT3 didn't model downforce very well.
     
  22. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    This sounds interesting! Are these available on the internet?

    What I mean with strange behaviour : I just noticed something similar driving the Lupo Cup Car - another light race car ...

    If you drive at high speed over a curb, the car moves up, and while you expect the law of mass-speed (I don't know the exact words to express this, can someone help me) to do its thing, launching it at least a few inches in the air for a short distance, there is a force that pushes the car immediately back onto the track :dopey:

    That force imo is the "downforce" from which that "race car" benefits. However its shape doesn't justify this, neither do probably the real life statistics of this car.

    It's just that PD adds downforce to this car to get the wanted handling. So there is something strange in their physics model.

    This is a small critic however, as most of their simulation IS good. Otherwise we wouldn't spend long hours discussing about it :tup:
     
  23. GILLET

    GILLET

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    I really think the Spoon Sports S2000 Race Car sucks. I'm not trying to say I don't like S2000's, don't get me wrong I love that car, but they should put a much faster Spoons S2000 like the S2000 from the GT3 game and even the badass S2000 from GT2, it was awesome. And why in did they take off the wing or tail aka spoiler from the Spoon Sports S2000. Don't know if any of you put attention to the GT4P video, the Spoons S2000 there has the spoiler and looks great and much faster I would say.
     
  24. yeti

    yeti

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    I've been doing some time trials comparing the MTRC car against a lot of other cars... and the Spoon S2000 is slower than the MTRC car.

    I didn't think it would be but it is... I will say though that this car felt more planted... but maybe that's the racing slicks... which really improve the braking no end!!

    C.
     
  25. BAZZ

    BAZZ

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    Hmm.. How have you been making thoose trials? It might be that i cant handle the MTRC at all but.. Cant go as fast with it as i can with the S2000..
    Lets compare times. :)
     
  26. BreakerOhio

    BreakerOhio

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    I raced the Spoon S2000 around Fuji against the competitive AI last night and I really enjoyed driving this car. The AI that is against this car is very competitive and fun to race, the whole race I was switching positions between the 1st place car. It was furious, back to back drafting and slicing corners better than the AI cars, and after three attempts I got first. Felt satisfying, 200 A-Spec points if prologue awarded them.

    The Spoon Sports S2000 feels really planted to the road and has a very good turning radius. I could slice corners so well with it. If it is because of the downforce, so what, I think the developers had to adjust the parameters correctly to make the car handle the best way in simulating its real life handling. In real life it may not be downforce, more suspension and tires, but in a game, if modifying downforce helps simulate the S2000's real life handling on rails feeling, then I think thats why it would be this way. I just wish they made the Stock S2000 handle on rails like the Spoon sports too, because in real life that's how it handles. I own one so thats my opinion.
     
  27. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    I take it this was in GT4 proper (200 A-Spec points), since against the AI in Prologue it's almost impossible to lose... or is it such that if you select this car in Prologue, you get a good run for your money anyway? I have to confess I have overlooked it thus far... (for shame! :indiff: )

    By the way, your vid of the DFP in action was my reason to buy one (the next day...) great stuff!
     
  28. BreakerOhio

    BreakerOhio

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    Selecting this car to race with in Prologue will give you a worthy race, "a run for your money". Have you not tried it yet? Its really fun on Fuji. Drafting is important to keep up with the turboed rally cars on the long straight of Fuji course.

    I'm glad I could help influence you into buying the DFP. That was sorta my purpose for making the video, to demonstrate how much more fun and active it is to play Gran Turismo with a wheel....especially when drifting.
     
  29. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    I tried it... and yes, finally a decent race in Prologue! For all of us poor souls who are STILL waiting for GT4 proper and who are STILL playing GT4: Prologue, the insufferably easy AI has meant precious few opportunities for a decent race, but this was a genuinely good race, so thanks for the tip...

    As for the car itself, it's an interesting beast... it may not be the fastest car in the world, but it handles well enough to make it a car that is well capable of punching above its weight... to be able to tune it will be a great bonus though.