Taxes

Vince_Fiero

Vince_Fiero

Off the track driver
Premium
2,529
Belgium
G-D Luxembourg
GTP_Vince_Fiero
I'm living in what some consider a Tax haven.
Still I'm paying tax and life is not cheap here.

Is taxing the solution for the Debt Crisis?

Are you fairly taxed?

Used outside of its original context:

Famine


Earning money (or tangible equivalent) = income tax
Saving money (or tangible equivalent) = capital gains tax
Inheriting money (or tangible equivalent) = estate/inheritance tax

However you acquire the wealth, it's taxed on the way in. However you dispose of the wealth (short of burning it), it's taxed on the way out - either through purchase tax or commodity duties (or both) or through an estate tax. In the UK we're even taxed annually for owning a home (after we pay our taxed utility bills, buy our taxed groceries, pay for insurance (tax), VED (tax) and petrol (tax * tax) in our cars out of our taxed income, we then pay about £1,200 tax just for owning a house). Oh, and we paid Stamp Duty (tax) for the privilege of buying it and whomever buys it from us will also pay it. How's that[/]i for a tax on wealth?

Involuntary taxes - taxes you incur just for existing - are fundamentally immoral. This includes income tax (money in) and estate tax (money out). Voluntary taxes - taxes you pay through choosing things (purchases) - are fundamentally moral, but can be grossly skewed to the point of immorality. Like a sales tax on top of fuel duty such that a 1p increase in fuel duty results in 1.2p rise in tax burden.
Click to expand...
 
Taxes are never a good thing, other than the fact its just a means to fuel the excess orgies of government.
 
In my country (uk), i would have to say yes.. taxing is the solution for debt crisis, but it would have to be done fairly.
Personally i'm sick of listening to the ConDem's (ruling party) saying we're all in this together.. when it's quite obvious we're not!, now whether you consider my opinion fair or not, i think the (disproportionately) well off of this country along with the bankers should pay a much higher tax... the rich would hardly feel it and the banks (it's not all down to previous government) got us in this mess in the first place, now some would consider this to be moraly wrong... but to me it seems fair.
 
A2K78
Taxes are never a good thing, other than the fact its just a means to fuel the excess orgies of government.
Click to expand...

So you prefer a paying service for walking on the road (like French toll roads), having water dikes when your in Holland, having an intervention of the Police, having a justice system, ....

Taxes are used for a lot of essential things that make society work and develop.
However with any access to power (here the power of money) temptation is big to abuse and that is where it get's ugly ....
 
Taxes are absolutely not the solution to a government's debt crisis. Bankrupt the populace to bail out a bankrupt government? That solves what, exactly?

A naive and novel concept, I know, but governments should live within their means, just like you and I are supposed to.

I know that governments have to borrow, like issuing bonds to pay for a new water plant or highway interchange, but borrowing to pay existing debt starts a circle that can't be stopped. Manufacturing (printing) money to do so is even worse. Throwing bills into circulation with the statement that, "Yes, these are worth what they say they're worth" is just goofy.
 
Vince_Fiero
So you prefer a paying service for walking on the road (like French toll roads), having water dikes when your in Holland, having an intervention of the Police, having a justice system, ....

Taxes are used for a lot of essential things that make society work and develop.
However with any access to power (here the power of money) temptation is big to abuse and that is where it get's ugly ....
Click to expand...

in this thread below I explain why public roads are not free and why taxes are a form of government force:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=231795&page=2
 
The people do not work for the government. Therefore, taxing the people cannot be a solution to their problem.
 
A2K78
in this thread below I explain why public roads are not free and why taxes are a form of government force:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=231795&page=2
Click to expand...

I see you are passionate on the subjet. 👍

You seem to adhere to a high form of individualism.
Do you believe in the greater good? (taking distance of abuse)
I believe that some initiatives are up to governments to correct the miscarriage in a competitive market.

e.g. I have some sympathy for the "Robin hood tax" only effecting millions of artificial computer generated financial transactions that have nothing to do with the purpose of the transactions, ownership of companies and stimulation of the economy.

Not tax initiatives are for example anti-trust initiatives.

Keef
The people do not work for the government.
Click to expand...

+1 The government is supposed to work for the people
but then:
Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.
Click to expand...
 
Vince_Fiero
I see you are passionate on the subjet. 👍

You seem to adhere to a high form of individualism.
Do you believe in the greater good? (taking distance of abuse)
I believe that some initiatives are up to governments to correct the miscarriage in a competitive market.
Click to expand...

You do understand that these government initiatives you talk about is meant to pick who the winners and losers are, right? In fact the thought governments are picking winners and losers is the very reason why the world is in economic collapse.
 
Vince_Fiero
but then:
Click to expand...
But then Bay of Pigs. But then secret assassination plans throughout Latin America, during which time he publicly opposed such tactics. But then meddling in southeast Asia, particularly Vietnam. But then jelly donut. But then Israel is only as sovereign a nation as the US says it is. But then CIA-backed military coup in Iraq that lead directly to Saddam Hussein taking power. But then Keynesian domestic economic policy and furthering of socialistic education and health programs. But then violation of the Treaty of 1794 signed by George Washington by the flooding of Seneca Nation territory without their consent.

But then, JFK was a complete moron.
 
A thousand pardons for getting back to the topic, but I have a basic question about taxes. What are the origins of taxation as an organizing principle of society? My guess is feudalism, when the peasantry owed a portion of whatever they produced to a local Lord, who in return provided protection, occasional employment and whatever other services.

Any comments?

Respectfully,
Steve
 
Keef
But then Bay of Pigs. But then secret assassination plans throughout Latin America, during which time he publicly opposed such tactics. But then meddling in southeast Asia, particularly Vietnam. But then jelly donut. But then Israel is only as sovereign a nation as the US says it is. But then CIA-backed military coup in Iraq that lead directly to Saddam Hussein taking power. But then Keynesian domestic economic policy and furthering of socialistic education and health programs. But then violation of the Treaty of 1794 signed by George Washington by the flooding of Seneca Nation territory without their consent.

But then, JFK was a complete moron.
Click to expand...

Well put. :lol:
 
Dotini
A thousand pardons for getting back to the topic, but I have a basic question about taxes. What are the origins of taxation as an organizing principle of society? My guess is feudalism, when the peasantry owed a portion of whatever they produced to a local Lord, who in return provided protection, occasional employment and whatever other services.

Any comments?

Respectfully,
Steve
Click to expand...
I'd guess it began at the moment one of our ancestors realized he was stronger than the others. He might have offered his group protection for a price. Of course, he couldn't do it by himself so he got the help of other strong members of the tribe. Little did he know he had set the stage for what we now call "oligarchy".
 
Dotini
...What are the origins of taxation as an organizing principle of society?....
Click to expand...

I think Egypt was the first country to impose a tax on its citizens around 3000 BC. The Pharaohs needed funds for their building projects.

Many Kings and Emperor's in various places throughout the world also imposed taxes to fund their wartime expenditures.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
I would imagine that the first taxes were collected (or assessed, at any rate) immediately after the first government was created.
 
On the topic on origins: there's probably something to said about conquering empires requiring tributes from provinces.
 
A2K78
why do economic crisises occur?
Click to expand...
Because the people working in the government have too much to lose if they intervene.
To simpily put it government is the "enabler"
Click to expand...
The government enables by standing by idle. If they do act they will lose campaign funds or, in other words, the money will get stuck to the gum under the table.
and these articles well demonstrate it:
Click to expand...
I saw nothing substantial or even logical in either of those links.
 
I am heavily taxed and I still live at home, BC is one of the most taxed places in North America and it's incredibly ridiculous. Although I do get free health care which I use extensively so I guess it evens out.

We have a 12% HST tax on nearly everything except some incredibly confusing rules that make some very rare things exempt (including online game purchases???) Carbon Tax on gas means it's cheaper to wait and cross the border where it is 30¢ a literally cheaper or 1.20 a gallon cheaper!!!
 
CMvan46
cross the border
Click to expand...
How common is it for Canadians to cross the border to get gas or food or whatever supplies they might need? Is there any noticeable trends or effects on local economies?
 
Keef
How common is it for Canadians to cross the border to get gas or food or whatever supplies they might need? Is there any noticeable trends or effects on local economies?
Click to expand...

I assume it would be much like Ohioans crossing into KY for cheaper cigarettes and alcohol. I see that every time I go to down town Covington, liquor store parking lots filled with Ohio license plates on the cars. It does seem like Ohio would make more in Sin Tax dollars if they just lowered them to at least be competitive with prices within driving distance. Though I'm sure for every person that crosses over the river to get cheaper goods, there is surely one who will choose to simply pay higher prices and stay closer to home.
 
You wouldn't believe the number of Ohio license plates on cars that pick their kids up from my son's school. And general shoppers too like at the mall and grocery stores. I am not sure of the tax rate difference but I literally see as many Ohio plates as WV plates in the Parkersburg/Vienna area. Granted Marietta and here are only separated by the Ohio River and Marietta doesn't have a mall that I'm aware of.
 
:lol:

Just China.

Yeah, I pay tax, on my salary, but only as a foreign expert which means about 5% of my monthy income.

Tax on smokes, beer, food? Na, forget it.

If I chose to buy a car in this country, on the other hand, I will pay double the UK price as tax on vehicles is insane.

Tax? Meh, what tax!?

*Smug Shem.*

Sorry for all you folk that pay but I spent yearas paying tax NI in the UK and barely ever saw a use for it. Tax kept my bins empty and my street lights on. I can't complain about that. (counsel tax)
 
Dapper
You wouldn't believe the number of Ohio license plates on cars that pick their kids up from my son's school. And general shoppers too like at the mall and grocery stores. I am not sure of the tax rate difference but I literally see as many Ohio plates as WV plates in the Parkersburg/Vienna area. Granted Marietta and here are only separated by the Ohio River and Marietta doesn't have a mall that I'm aware of.
Click to expand...

From what I remember there was a WalMart and that's it. :lol: However touring the Fenton ArtGlass factory is something to do in the area that is pretty unique, so at least they have that and being able to purchase 'spirits' at gas stations was something that I was not expecting to see.

Also, once again China intrigues me with the way things are done there. Not saying anything good or bad about it, just how different it is compared to us.
 
Keef
How common is it for Canadians to cross the border to get gas or food or whatever supplies they might need? Is there any noticeable trends or effects on local economies?
Click to expand...

The closer you get the more common it is. A ton of people from my area (2 hours south of Toronto, coast of Lake Erie) go to the US for black friday sales, and just to go shopping because everything's cheaper. Flights too, we went to Florida a few years ago, and flew out of Buffalo instead of Toronto, saved a few hundred bucks per person. Same thing this summer, we flew from Buffalo to New York instead of from Toronto.
 
ChaosStar79
I assume it would be much like Ohioans crossing into KY for cheaper cigarettes and alcohol.
Click to expand...

Just an other topic I wanted to introduce.

In the Euro zone some leaders are spreading the theory that we can not have a solid monetary policy without having the same taxes everywhere.

Now if the dollar has survived different Tax rates, why wouldn't Europe?

P.S.: We apply here 15% max and 3% on food (including alcohol), which is certainly not going to make it as the norm for the others.
 
Taxes are good, if the tax money is used correctly by the government.

In Sweden, thanks to taxes, education is free, no matter if you're in 3rd grade or at a university, and from high school and up you actually get payed if you do any kind of studying. Not much of course, but if you live at home together with your parents it's enough to get everything you need and go out a couple of times a month.

The healthcare is also largely paid from taxation although not entirely free (I think it isn't anyway), and everyone has equal access to it.
 

Latest Posts

Back