[tech request] garage power shown: differences

[marloc]

Hello to everybody,
I've read the threads and at a glance it doesn't seem the problem I want to highlight has been noticed, although there are some very interesting and precise posts facing similar problems.
I've noticed there is a mismatching information shown on garage power window when certain car are bought.
For being more accurate the power shown on dealer window definitively differs from the power shown on car's property window once the cars has been bought.
It' is not a problem in relation with unit of measure (whose issue has been greatly explained by a member) and seems to be in relation mainly with Group C cars.
E.g. mazda 787b (one of my favourite car!) has 690 bhp in dealer's information window (that's correct since renesis r26b engine is accredited of 700 bhp from tech specs) but once in garage it gains (with no plausible reason) 100 bhp going on 800+ bhp.
This happens also with other Group C cars as Minolta Toyota 88-cv whose engine has 800 bhp (from tech specs) and in garage goes to 900+ bhp.
And so on with lmr, r8, 905 ...
Since PD has always been renowned for its accuracy in technical aspects I was wonder if anyone has further information or more details.

Note: I've tried out changing unit of measure, buying and reselling from different memory card but the problem doesn't seem to solve.
Many thanks to anyone will answer to this.

Bests,

mrlc

 

[Canadian Speed]

Hello to everybody,
I've read the threads and at a glance it doesn't seem the problem I want to highlight has been noticed, although there are some very interesting and precise posts facing similar problems.
I've noticed there is a mismatching information shown on garage power window when certain car are bought.
For being more accurate the power shown on dealer window definitively differs from the power shown on car's property window once the cars has been bought.
It' is not a problem in relation with unit of measure (whose issue has been greatly explained by a member) and seems to be in relation mainly with Group C cars.
E.g. mazda 787b (one of my favourite car!) has 690 bhp in dealer's information window (that's correct since renesis r26b engine is accredited of 700 bhp from tech specs) but once in garage it gains (with no plausible reason) 100 bhp going on 800+ bhp.
This happens also with other Group C cars as Minolta Toyota 88-cv whose engine has 800 bhp (from tech specs) and in garage goes to 900+ bhp.
And so on with lmr, r8, 905 ...
Since PD has always been renowned for its accuracy in technical aspects I was wonder if anyone has further information or more details.

Note: I've tried out changing unit of measure, buying and reselling from different memory card but the problem doesn't seem to solve.
Many thanks to anyone will answer to this.

Bests,

mrlc

I've gotten that too with a few Skylines and a Mitsu 3000 VR Turbo. They're listed at 276, the magic number for nearly any car worth having. Then once in the garage, they jump to 300 and even 305.... and that's not even with an oil change. I've always noticed this for used cars though... never for the new ones. Glich I guess... I'm just gald it appears to add and not take away HP....

 

[Poolboy-'88 LSC]

I've gotten that too with a few Skylines and a Mitsu 3000 VR Turbo. They're listed at 276, the magic number for nearly any car worth having. Then once in the garage, they jump to 300 and even 305.

That's a different issue all together.
The 276 Hp number is part of a "gentlemans agreement" amongst Japanese auto makers to prevent a horsepower war in Japan. This was encouraged by the government as well due to the high number of automobile accidents and the high fuel prices. In reality most of the cars that claim 276HP produce over 300 HP

 

[marloc]

That's a different issue all together.[]

in fact is something in relation only with certain high profile car whose power isn't correct at all.
I do prefer having no driving aids and no further tuning on c group car (they're souped up enough) and I find myself on a car whose power is mismatching real tech spec..!
it disappoints me ..!
: (

mrlc

 

[Jmac279]

Maybe they rated it at less than full boost ...

Maybe they rated it at 700 hp @ the wheels, which could easily be 800+ hp @ the crank ...

 

[///M-Spec]

My experience with GT4 so far is to take any horsepower figure you may see at the dealership with a grain of salt. A Mazda RX-8 Type S is advertised as having 247 hp at the dealer, but garage and tuning screens show it to have 285+.

In the NTSC version, the main variation of horsepower is between the number shown in garage screens and tuning screens. A stock M3 shows 343 in some places and 338 in others.

Both numbers are, in fact, correct. This is because I believe the lower number in the NTSC version is set to display SAE NET horsepower (an American horsepower standard), while certain other screens are displaying DIN horsepower (a German horsepower standard).

--The SAE method defines a horsepower as the ability to lift 33,000 lbs one foot in one minute.

--The DIN method defines a horsepower is the ability to lift 450,000 kg one cm in one minute.

They are very close, but not the same. One SAE horsepower will measure out to be ~98.629% of one DIN horsepower.

Thus, M3s are advertised as having 343 hp in Europe. Where as in the US, the same car in Euro emissions trim would be rated at 338. (However, our version of the M3 makes 333 in US legal emmissions spec.)

I believe this difference accounts for most of the variations in horsepower amoungst the garage and tuning screens. Again, the dealers (as in real life) can not be trusted entirely with their information.

I am also certain that all horsepower numbers displayed in GT4 is reflected at the flywheel, not WHEELhp.


M

 

[Jmac279]

I am also certain that all horsepower numbers displayed in GT4 is reflected at the flywheel, not WHEELhp.

I'm not sure about GT4, but I'm almost certain GT2 power was at the wheels (even though you'd suspect it's power at the crank, since that's what most cars are rated at) ... The numbers just don't add up if you assume even a 10% drop in power through the drivetrain (which is very generous) ...

But, as we all know, GT2 was rushed ...

 

[marloc]

Hi lads,
thanks to everybody for your replies…
I've found some more technical information that confirm what I was thinking about renesis R26 engine.
It has definitively 690 BHP on the flywheel a this agrees with the information shown on dealer window.
[http://www.mulsannescorner.com/mazdar26b.html]
Even taking care of the (absolutely correct!) standards discrepancy highlighted by ///M-Spec the amount isn't correct at all; the discrepancy goes from about 11/12% to a good 15+%...
Actually my car's power has dropped to 764 BHP on car's tech info in set-up window (mainly due to the oil consumption) and still have 800+ BHP in garage grid info.
The power in garage grid is highly probably shown in PS (as an excellent post by 'TheWizard' has focused on) and thus some slight differences could be acceptable.
The only thing that is popping up in my tiny brain is the possibility that the power shown is the restricted version of the engines (due to C Group restrictor for consumption compliance) and the version once the car gets in garage is the unrestricted version.

The first thing you'd probably do on a Pescarolo's Judd GV4 V10 engine is to sever away the restrictor and enjoy 800+ BHP instead of 600+BHP..
: ))

I'm still wondering…

mrlc