That annoying little ^HOP^

Discussion in 'GT2 Settings & Tunings' started by Parnelli Bone, Dec 1, 2004.

  1. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    I suspect this is gonna be one of my questions that nobody can answer... OKay, has anyone figured out a way to get cars not to ‘hop’? What I mean is the BACK of hte car will fly up like at Special Stage route 5 before the triple esses & the tunnel and at Trail Mountain down the back straight. I noticed that most cars that haven't had suspension tuning won't do it..so I suspect it must have something to do with the way I set up my suspension. This is on cars that don't have xtra downforce, yet, by the way. Has anyone else dealt with it and come up with some magic solution?
     
  2. Neon_SRT

    Neon_SRT

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    Maybe the stabalizer is to strong. Or your spring rate is too high. I'm not to sure because this only happens on arcade mode of GT1. :odd:
     
  3. Stinky Chicken

    Stinky Chicken (Banned)

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    It'll be both, don't have them TOO stiff. I'm not a genius but I do know that.
     
  4. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Cool thanx. I've been seeing this ‘problem’ mostly with the sedans: Audi S4, Dodge Intrepid, Jaguars, BMWs...and I'm using sports or semi-racing suspensions so I figured out that it's the rear dampers...you have to set them really low in the back..like @2.
     
  5. Jmac279

    Jmac279

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    If your car is bouncing, it's almost always because the dampers are set too high ...

    I always set my dampers first (with lowest spring rates) so I can get them to be just right (not too hard 'bouncy', but you don't want them to be too soft or you'll lose time) and then I adjust my springs ... I find my car is a lot more predictable if I leave both of the stabilizers at full and counter under/over steer with the springs ...
     
  6. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    I noticed this little bouncy.

    I finally got an NSX'93 to almost behave itself at Red Rock.

    Those bouncies seems to help you lose control on those low-resolution turns (final turns at Red Rock, and High-Speed Ring, and also the 180 in the middle of Midfield just after the first tunnel).

    I never did quite get it totally under control, however.

    Isn't one or more of the suspension settings in GT2 actually backwards? (should be in an FAQ somewhere; try not to be n00bish SW...)

    Does a differing bound/rebound affect this bouncing in some generalizable way?

    http://nsuperiorbiz.com/house/listings/redrock/redrock.html
     
  7. HYBRIDLVR

    HYBRIDLVR

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    I've notice it also on Red Rock, Immediately when exiting the main straight onto the first turn, It's mostly noticeable when the cars are extremely lowered, It could be Bumps in the road like in real circuits? It sure seem that way because it doesn't have any effect until you really tune the cars. IMO!
     
  8. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    It's funny when i originally wrote this thread i used to consider hops "annoying"...now i kinda look forward to them (unless im surrounded by some AI that is)

    I read somewhere (don't ask where...it's one of those things you read once on some obscure website) that the tracks in GT2 are pieced together in sections sort of like blocks. When we drive on a banked track like Red Rock, your car's tires run over these sections of track and for some reason your car interprets these sections as bumps, even tho we can't see the edge of each section.

    And mid-engine cars seem to have to worst time with banks. Bigger cars like the Vectors and the Jaguar XJ220 do okay, but for some reason a Lotus Elise or Ford GT40 can literally bounce its way into a full spin if your'e not careful! :banghead:

    Bound and rebound affects "hopping" or lack of hopping just like springs do (in GT2) but there isn't much you can do to prevent it..it's kind of always there. All we can do is make the car handle to our liking it seems.

    At tracks like SEattle, i'll always have my cars set up like a bowl of jello...soft springs, generally soft dampers, and a ride height no lower than 130 mm. Rome, i like to have the height set around 115-120, stabilizers soft, yet springs and dampers mid-range. This allows me to drive over the red & white curbing and pass AI without too much bouncing. Midfield, Apricot, and Grand VAlley i like lowering the car...genrally stiff springs & mid-rangey dampers...it all depends on the car of course. Some cars demand a soft suspension where others demand a stiff one.
     
  9. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    Yes, it is better to have rebound value lower than bound. This is based on my old testing. But since the range of damper value in GT2 is small, I usually aim to use damper as oversteer and understeer corection during change of speed, or if I don't need that, use damper value as high as possible.

    I think we can't feel it using stock suspension because stock use 1/1 damper and soft spring.

    Me too :), I even hate racing game that has no bump now :D. Thank god there is still bump in GT4 :).
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    That's something that sucks about GT3: they got rid of alot of areas where you used to catch air or jump or hop. Case in point: at Seattle down the backstretch (heading towards the double 90° turn where the traintracks and Dome are) you can catch just a bit of a hop several hundred meters away from those turns. In GT3, they got rid of this. Why???? It looked cool in replays. I"m glad the bump is back in GT4. :)
     
  11. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    Now, does that mean rebound is harder/stiffer than bound?

    There seems to be some discussion around here that damper values are "backwards" in GT2, but I'm having difficulty seeing a definite conclusion anywhere.

    But rebound harder than bound would seem to make sense in real-life; you don't want the dampers to interfere excessively with the spring action, but you do want them to stop the rebound.

    Which might suggest it was amazing that I got that NSX to behave at all reasonably.
     
  12. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    From my experience and testing, when tuning damper in GT2:
    - if I use high front and low rear the car will oversteer during change of speed. higher value stick to the road more during change of speed.
    - during rally, car jumping around more when using high damper value.
    - when hybriding, using higher than max normal damper value make the car bouncing longer, if it's high enough, more than 20, the car would keep bouncing more than 5 second. using 200 the car would not stop bouncing. using 0 the car will stop bouncing fast.
    - the bouncing difference between the normal lowest and the normal highest of damper is not great. Spring rate makes more difference.
    - same damper value of bound and rebound has the most bounce. A 1 value difference can reduce bouncing greatly. so 20/20 21/21 damper bounce less than 20/20 20/20 damper.
    - tire will shake more violently during bump when using high damper value, if this shaking do not make the car skip the road this will be the best. we can be faster than equal AI car (all stock car) in midfield/redrock valley bumper corner with higher damper value (all other setting equal to stock). If it's allowed on laptime competition I use 20 damper value on my car to get fast time at corner, and pair it with soft spring to get easier control.

    To reduce hop on bumpy road, I would use soft spring rate, at the expense of reduced mid corner grip and straight acceleration. I usually try to use damper as high as possible.
     
  13. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    High number damper, meaning low damping force, or low damper number meaning high damping force?
     
  14. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    For me, yes.
     
  15. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    I asked "which", and you said "yes"...
     
  16. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    Sorry, I should explain it more.

    When you say:
    "High number damper, meaning low damping force, or low damper number meaning high damping force?"

    I agree to both, high damper number has low damping force AND low damper number has high damping force. In other word, higher damper number has less damping force. Lowest damper number has the most damping force.
     
  17. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Here we are back on this topic again. I still think it's the opposite (low=low and high=high) although i will admit you've conclusively shown that toe in GT2 is backwards (negative front camber makes the front tires {when viewing from the driver's point of view from the driver's seat} point OUTWARD instead of INWARD). This is true in GT3 as well.
     
  18. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    I just stubborn I guess :). I become more sensitive on judging real car or real bike damper too :). Constantly annoy many people to change their car or bike rear suspension in the process :lol:. Never got complain from the one who agree though, including my dad :).

    I intend to see how damper works in other game too, so far only played Viper Racing and GPL, which IMO has reversed damper tuning compare to GT2 and GT4.

    Seeing how Benz Patent Motor Wagen hopping around even on test track straight in PlayGuy video, adding my conclution that GT4 damper is reversed too. I set that car damper to 34, aside from 169hp engine upgrade :D.
    [​IMG]

    http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=video&file=vid03.avi

    note: don't take the above video as argumentation. As I know anyone can interpret the above video differently. But those "little" hop sure is annoying :lol:. And still one of the cure to reduce those hop is by setting the damper value as low as possible, no matter if we see damper as reversed or not :).
     
  19. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    No, it's cool Sucahyo. You got your opinion and i got mine. :)
     
  20. zoxxy

    zoxxy (Banned)

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    It's actually Gran Turismos damper tuning is backwards if you compare it to RL. GPL and Viper Racing, both from Papyrus, are correctly designed.
     
  21. sucahyo

    sucahyo

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    Ok :).

    Yes, GT1 damper tuning is not backward though, if we compare it to real life. PD use different damper tuning technique on newer GT. I highly suspect the hidden suspension tuning "grip" is what the first GT (GT1) use as damper tuning. Since this grip value will make the car bouncing more on low value. One example of this is on BMW i740i which has rear grip value lower than front (90/78). Because much lower rear grip value, it make the i740 bouncing it's rear if we use the stiffest spring rate. Setting those value equal will reduce rear bouncing and make it handle differently.

    Just a little correction, Viper Racing is created by ex-Papyrus programmer which create their own company named MGI. They use the same physics engine as the Papyrus one. Although it seems the tire data a bit inferior than the Papyrus one which has real racer or tuner (porsche tuner !) to beta test it's software.