The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

No, the channel is not a source of solid evidence. No context is provided, the source's motives are profit driven, no third party sources are provided to be able to verify its content and the vast majority of the material is pro-police.

I dislike the channel as a source of evidence, period.



Cut the passive aggressive attitude.



Odd, as the sources I provided also contained statistics, and within them links to more data and statistics, I've even quoted those statistics directly in post as well.


Where have you seen "equal handling to all colors"?

The statistical data of police interactions in the US shows that black males are more than twice as likely to die at the hands of the police than a white male, yet they are half as likely to be carrying a gun at the time. You dismiss race as a cause of this, so it's quite reasonable to ask why you dismiss it as a cause and what you think the cause is.




I agree, but that's not the point you made. You said they were the real problem in regard to violence in the US, I asked you why and that has not been addressed. Every country has gangs and ghettos, yet the US is almost unique in regard to its level of gun violence, so what makes US gangs and ghettos unique in that regard?



That's not context. who had a weapon ready, what was the case. Provide us with the details, ideally with a credible source so we can look into it ourselves.


To be honest. I really don't care what you think about me, and that's not unique to you either. I have no control over


Indeed, but the point is to recognize them and address them, not embrace them.



That's a start.



I know, you have now said that a number of times. The question is why did they, and why did them not stop and readdress the situation?


I have ASD, so no I don't always pick up on it.



Let's look at your opening post in this discussion, and even removing the biased language you used in general terms we get this:

"As for Floyd... he would have died anyways without the police help. He had foam around his mouth and was screaming of breathing problems way before being pinned down. I don't have any sympathy towards him. A criminal buried in a golden casket and cities got burned... disgusting."

'he would have died anyway'

'i don't have any sympathy for him'

'a criminal buried in a golden casket'

'disgusting'

In this opening salvo you removed any blame from the police, blamed the victim and referenced the utterly unrelated point of his past life. I hate to break it to you, but that's defending the murder of George Floyd and defending police brutality.

It's only since members in this thread have challenged you on this that you have started to walk it back.




You missed that before they pinned him down they ignored an individual in clear distress, a point that he repeatedly and politely said to them, a point that the passenger in his car repeatedly and politely told them. Something that you hand wave away as being 'really annoying' was in fact a quite clear indication that he was not alright. That cause of him being in distress is also irrelevant, and the police's go to action for being annoyed should not be brute force and dangerous restraint.

The fact of the matter is that George Floyd was in fact apologetic to the police, respectful (referring to them as Mr. Officer and Sir repeatedly) , clearly fearful of his life (please don't shoot me was said multiple times), clealry in distress and altered. Points they ignored and just tried to stuff him in the car.

I would suggest you read the full transcript from the police bodycams, which supports all of the above, and clearly shows a man in distress, who regardless of any past crimes or suspected crimes, was willfully failed by the police, and failed repeatedly.

BodyCam Transcript.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...b81216735f2203a08cb/optimized/full.pdf#page=1


He didn't need to be pinned in the first place, they failed to de-escalate the situation, they failed to provide medical attention when they knew they couldn't find his pulse, they made conscious decisions over the course of minutes that resulted in the death of a human being. A human being you said you had no sympathy for and described simply as a 'criminal'.

It also came to light in yesterdays evidence that the officers did block a trained EMT from assisting...

"Genevieve Hansen, a trained emergency medical technician (EMT) and Minneapolis firefighter, said she identified herself as a first responder and demanded officers check his pulse when she saw George Floyd on the ground.

Hansen then called 911 to report what she saw.

Hansen lives within walking distance of Cup Foods and was taking a walk the evening of May 25, 2020. When she approached the corner, she saw the police lights and heard a woman across the street screaming they were killing him.

She was concerned by what she saw. “He wasn’t moving, and he was cuffed. And three grown men putting all of their weight on somebody is too much,” she said. “The first thing that concerned me was his face was smushed into the ground. Swollen. It appeared swollen to me.”

She noticed that Floyd had an altered level of consciousness and wasn’t moving despite Derek Chauvin’s knee on his neck.

Her main focus was how she could gain access to the patient or direct offers to provide treatment, she testified.

“I already assessed that he had an altered level of consciousness what I needed to know was whether or not he had a pulse anymore,” she said.
She identified herself as a firefighter to former officer Tou Thao, who said if she was really a firefighter she would know better than to get involved.

Hansen never saw officers take a pulse, but she could not entirely see all four of them. "


...they dismissed a trained first responder, who may well have been able to save George Floyds life, or at the very least give him a chance. A trained professional, who clearly saw he was in distress and in danger was ignored!

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/derek-chauvin-trial-day-two-testimony/index.html

I'm sick and tired of you twisting my words and accusing me of supporting police brutality and murder.
And you did it again with the trained professional that was offduty and was not identified on video as one.
I wish I was better with english to describe better what I want to say, but at this moment I don't see a point of arguing with you. You just don't want to understand that I do not support... ah, how many more times should I repeat that?

From the very start you started to act towards me as if I'm supporting police brutality!

Here you assumed that I was talking about Floyd being the dangerous criminal that had to be liquidated. I clearly wasn't talking about him. I was talking about a gunman scenario.
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Here you assumed that I am freaking fascist and racist!

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Here you are twisting my words and assuming that my decision will be to shoot everyone!
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Here was my spelling mistake. I didn't put the "not" in "not perfect" meaning that yes, I know the police is not perfect and their mistakes can cost the lives of others.
And you instead of asking why my words were contradicting just assumed that I was justifying extra-judical murder by police!
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And here you said that the evidence directly contradicted my claim when you later posted links with video and medical reports saying that he had lethal amount of drugs and the cause of death was combined efforts of the police and drugs and his health that support my claim.
And again you are trying to say that I justify this, when I am not!

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I've had it with you, Scaff. This stupid argument is over.
I still demand an apology from you.

I just can't wrap my head around why a white 15 year old Estonian is riding so hard for the American police. This is a weird hill to die on mate.
Excuse me? 15 year old?
You see, here's the problem. My original post just described my opinion. I have the right to do so. You guys jumped at me with accusations and you was the most aggressive escalating the situation and literally calling me a bootlicker. This is literally discrimination. I like the way the US police is dressed and what equipment they have. They fight dangerous people. I know they have flaws. And all this makes you hate me. You still is aggressive saying that I'm a 15 year old, when I've been on GTPlanet for 14 years and my age can be seen in my profile!
And during the whole argument I was trying to defend myself from accusation, not riding hard about the police. And why you bring my color in to this? And nationality? You and Scaff are British, so why you here then?

I didn't expect that this is going to be such a dumpster fire.
 
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And you did it again with the trained professional that was offduty and was not identified on video as one.
It was given as evidence in court yesterday, by numerous witnesses, who all consistently said the same thing. The EMT clearly identified themselves and the officers refused to allow her to assist.

I provided a link to that testimony, testimony that the defense did not dispute.

As for no video evidence existing of her doing so, well that's untrue.




From the very start you started to act towards me as if I'm supporting police brutality!
And I've explained why, directly quoting you.

Here you assumed that I was talking about Floyd being the dangerous criminal that had to be liquidated. I clearly wasn't talking about him. I was talking about a gunman scenario.
g80L2SKVjvc.jpg

Here you assumed that I am freaking fascist and racist!

hRx3_mdUXYs.jpg

Here you are twisting my words and assuming that my decision will be to shoot everyone!
WO2qdHfkArA.jpg
Not a single assumption, a series of questions.


Here was my spelling mistake. I didn't put the "not" in "not perfect" meaning that yes, I know the police is not perfect and their mistakes can cost the lives of others.
And you instead of asking why my words were contradicting just assumed that I was justifying extra-judical murder by police!
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Because you hand-wave them away as mistakes.


And here you said that the evidence directly contradicted my claim when you later posted links with video and medical reports saying that he had lethal amount of drugs and the cause of death was combined efforts of the police and drugs and his health that support my claim.
And again you are trying to say that I justify this, when I am not!
No it didn't support your claim, the autopsy was quite clear on that, and lets not forget you chose to not include those parts at all.

The autopsy was also clear in the cause of death, it's listed as homicide and only that.


I've had it with you, Scaff. This stupid argument is over.
I still demand an apology from you.
You can demand all you like, all I have done is point out errors and issues with your sources and position and ask you questions.
 
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Instead of asking why I don't like them, you, like Scaff assumed that I'm a fascist!
You don't get to repeatedly lie.

I assumed nothing and I certainly didn't call you or assume you are a fascist. I asked you a question.
 
*sigh* One last post.

You don't get to repeatedly lie.

I assumed nothing and I certainly didn't call you or assume you are a fascist. I asked you a question.
You asked me a question as if I supported fascism and racism! You literally asked if I don't like demands for equal rights and opposing fascism! And when I explained everything you didn't apologize and kept ignoring me!

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Here you agree with G.T.Ace who assumed that I'm a pro-fascist!
You like the comment of a user that calls other a pro-fascist!
You are so prejudiced.
Some moderator you are. I apologized for my mistakes but you keep yourself on a high throne not ready to admit that you are wrong about my views.
 
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I won't be posting here anymore.
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It's so weird that you're getting all bent out of shape about people asking you questions about opinions you've expressed - and that you're fixated on the fact that one of them is a moderator.

You've posted some pretty reprehensible things in the last 24 hours, and nobody has abused or insulted you for it... only asked questions of you based on what you've said. Yet you're the one kicking off about it.

Either take your own advice and stop posting, or calm down and actually read what's being posted before responding again.
 
So I guess calling me a bootlicker, a 15 year old, a liar, a fascist and a police brutality supporter does not count as an insult. Got it.
The fascist and police brutality supporter "insults" were questions. I can't speak of the bootlicker, as I haven't seen it, and the chap who assumed you were 15 years old didn't call you a 15 year old, he assumed you were white, 15, and Estonian. That's his problem.

As for the liar... well, what would you suggest is an appropriate label for someone who posts things that are untrue, easily proven untrue, and easily proven untrue by their own sources?

As I said:

Either take your own advice and stop posting, or calm down and actually read what's being posted before responding again.
That's an either/or. What you did instead was carry on posting while not actually reading what's being posted, and that pretty much straight up ignores what I told you to do. Don't make that mistake again.
 
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*sigh* One last post.


You asked me a question as if I supported fascism and racism! You literally asked if I don't like demands for equal rights and opposing fascism! And when I explained everything you didn't apologize and kept ignoring me!
Far from ignoring you, I have answered and addressed every post you have made, and as you now seem to acknowledge I asked you a question. That's not an assumption, its a question.



J_MQumR5BTw.jpg

Here you agree with G.T.Ace who assumed that I'm a pro-fascist!
You like the comment of a user that calls other a pro-fascist!
You are so prejudiced.
I like posts for many reasons, you've assumed a reason and presented it as fact, which is rather ironic.

Some moderator you are. I apologized for my mistakes but you keep yourself on a high throne not ready to admit that you are wrong about my views.
My role as a moderator has nothing at all to do with any of this, but if you continue with the passive aggressive insults that will change.
 
It's so weird that you're getting all bent out of shape about people asking you questions about opinions you've expressed - and that you're fixated on the fact that one of them is a moderator.
I like the part where they hinted that a moderator being among those asking questions would embolden users to disregard what has been defined as acceptable use and send hate messages.

...


Cops Tried To Force a Man To Delete a Video of Them Beating a Suspect. They Got Qualified Immunity.

In August 2014, Levi Frasier filmed Denver cops beating a suspect during an arrest for an alleged drug deal. The officers punched the accused six times in the face, and when a woman approached the scene screaming, a different cop clutched her ankle, tossing her to the ground—all captured on film.

The officers didn't take kindly to the latter point. After the arrest, they surrounded Frasier, searched his tablet without a warrant, and attempted to delete the resulting video. In doing so, a federal court this week acknowledged that the officers violated the First Amendment, with the judges noting that the city's police training had taught the officers as much: There's a constitutional right to record government agents making a public arrest.

The same court ruled that the cops are protected by qualified immunity, the legal doctrine that shields state actors from civil suits unless a previous court precedent outlines a case with almost exactly the same factual circumstances.

Known as the "clearly established law" test, that standard is supposed to protect public officials from shallow litigation. In reality, it often allows the government to skirt responsibility for alleged misconduct, no matter how blatant. Consider the cops who allegedly stole $225,000 while executing a search warrant, or the cops who assaulted and arrested a man for standing outside of his own house, or the cop who shot a 10-year-old child. All were given qualified immunity—not because their conduct wasn't unconscionable, but because pre-existing case law didn't expressly say so.

That standard is alive and well here. "[T]he district court was wrong to deny the officers qualified immunity based on their knowledge of Mr. Frasier's purported First Amendment rights that they gained from their training," wrote Judge Jerome A. Holmes of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit. "Judicial decisions are the only valid interpretive source of the content of clearly established law; whatever training the officers received concerning the First Amendment was irrelevant to the clearly-established-law inquiry."

In other words: Although the officers knew their behavior was unlawful, the public cannot hold them accountable because, in the eyes of qualified immunity, they weren't equipped with that knowledge in the right way. A court precedent is the only avenue in which a public servant can appropriately and unquestionably know what conduct violates someone's rights, wrote Holmes, as if cops are casually perusing case law texts for instruction.

Frasier also brought a civil conspiracy claim against the officers, who again sought protection under qualified immunity. The district court denied them that request. The 10th Circuit reversed.

"Because we have concluded that the officers are entitled to qualified immunity on Mr. Frasier's First Amendment retaliation claim based on the absence of clearly established law," the court said, "it necessarily follows that they also are entitled to qualified immunity on his conspiracy claim insofar as it alleges a conspiracy to retaliate against him in violation of the same First Amendment right."

The Supreme Court has notoriously been unwilling to conduct a wholesale reevaluation of qualified immunity. In fact, the Court specifically demurred at the opportunity to review every qualified immunity case mentioned above.

It's a rich refusal considering that the Court itself breathed qualified immunity into existence. Though it is not the job of nine justices to legislate for the country, that's precisely what they did in creating the first iteration of the legal doctrine in Pierson v. Ray (1967), refining it to its current application—that "clearly established" part—as outlined in Harlow v. Fitzgerald (1982).

In its current session, however, the Supreme Court has been willing to send subtler messages to lower courts about just how rigorous a standard qualified immunity should be. In November, the justices reversed the ruling in Taylor v. Riojas (2020), in which the U.S Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit awarded qualified immunity to a group of prison guards who forced a naked psychiatric-unit inmate into two filthy cells, one lined with "massive amounts" of human feces and the other with raw sewage overflowing from a clogged floor drain. The Court did the same last month when it ordered the 5th Circuit to reconsider a decision in which they gave qualified immunity to a correctional officer who pepper-sprayed an inmate without provocation.

Holmes recognized this trend, tipping his hat to the recent decision in Taylor. As with any guidance from the high court, he conceded that it should be his lodestar. And yet such guidance still isn't enough in this case, he concluded.

"Mr. Frasier's attempt to distill a clearly established right applicable here from the general First Amendment principles protecting the creation of speech and the gathering of news," the judge said, "runs headfirst into the Supreme Court's prohibition against defining clearly established rights at a high level of generality."

As with any qualified immunity decision, the ruling rests on reasonableness. A reasonable officer could reasonably believe that the First Amendment doesn't apply to filming public arrests, Holmes explained. Basic principles attached to both the free press and free speech didn't make it obvious enough. The courses the officers received in which the government explicitly told them that their actions infringed on the Constitution didn't make it obvious enough.

What, then, would make such an act unreasonable? If an armed agent of the state cannot be expected to apply his or her training to the job, then perhaps we're holding the government to too low a standard.
 
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Excuse me? 15 year old?
You see, here's the problem. My original post just described my opinion. I have the right to do so. You guys jumped at me with accusations and you was the most aggressive escalating the situation and literally calling me a bootlicker. This is literally discrimination. I like the way the US police is dressed and what equipment they have. They fight dangerous people. I know they have flaws. And all this makes you hate me. You still is aggressive saying that I'm a 15 year old, when I've been on GTPlanet for 14 years and my age can be seen in my profile!
And during the whole argument I was trying to defend myself from accusation, not riding hard about the police. And why you bring my color in to this? And nationality? You and Scaff are British, so why you here then?

I'm done with this bull ****.
I didn't expect that this is going to be such a dumpster fire.

Yeah, that was me. I called you a bootlicker and implied that you were 15, because you sound like a 15 year old bootlicker. There are good, well-informed folk here who have met all of your arguments, shown you all of the flaws in what you are saying and generally tried to make you see sense, but you are clearly not interested. So I'm just shouting it as I see it pal. You claim that this was me being "aggressive" towards you. This isn't aggression, it's mocking. I'm mocking your ability to trivialise the very real and well documented issues faced by an entire demographic of people, and in particular one incident in which a man was murdered, while at the same time admiring the perpetrators in these issues. Because...you like the way they dress and their equipment?? You sound psychotic.

You being a white European is absolutely relevant, as you have asserted such wisdom as:

I see that the police handles all colors equally. Only some black ones scream racism though.

What can you possibly know about the struggles and issues faced by black people in America, other than what black Americans are telling us? What gives you the right to insinuate that black people are lying about their treatment by the police? You are willing to defend brutal policing tactics and reduce actual oppression to a few black people "screaming racism", when you're here crying about "aggression", "discrimination" and being attacked on a messageboard. The irony here is about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Besides, if I was going to "discriminate" against you, I would say something about furry & brony culture and the views commonly associated with it, but I'll just leave it there eh?
 
So the defences argument is basically that the crowd was so distracting and angry to the officers that they couldn't concentrate on what they were doing, and anyway it doesn't matter because he was on drugs?

That's the actual line they are taking!

Despite the video evidence and autopsy clearly contradicting both these claims.
 
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Language warning. The article linked in the tweet cites profanity-laden text messages from the recently acquitted.

Oh and venture into the article's comments section at your own peril.
 
Well, for one, George Floyd is not on trial. Two,
View attachment 1001412
Yeah, I mean, it's entirely possible to hold the simultaneous opinions that George Floyd was an unpleasant person and a career criminal with multiple convictions for a host of offences and that he shouldn't have been effectively hanged on the floor over a period of nine minutes.

I know Trump threw due process out of the window and his supporters were either unwilling to see or incapable of seeing it, but this is a guy who was killed for an accusation of a non-capital crime by one cop, with three cops as accessory to the murder. How crappy the guy they tortured to death was isn't part of the discussion.
 


Language warning. The article linked in the tweet cites profanity-laden text messages from the recently acquitted.

Oh and venture into the article's comments section at your own peril.

Thanks for giving me yet another reason to resign myself to the prospect of Chauvin being acquitted.
 
I know Trump threw due process out of the window and his supporters were either unwilling to see or incapable of seeing it...
Or were okay with it because it was affecting other people.

DK
Thanks for giving me yet another reason to resign myself to the prospect of Chauvin being acquitted.
I think there may be enough at play here to hedge against miscarriage of justice, but yeah, I'm also a cynic.
 
The Neighborhood Reporter is a young crew of local news reporters from the Minneapolis area and they've been doing a great job of covering every second of the goings on up there for a while now. They've been posting quick and easy summaries of the trial on Instagram along with a lot of other content.







 
The Neighborhood Reporter is a young crew of local news reporters from the Minneapolis area and they've been doing a great job of covering every second of the goings on up there for a while now. They've been posting quick and easy summaries of the trial on Instagram along with a lot of other content.







Bless those kids. Hopefully they have a great future in journalism ahead of them.
 
Or were okay with it because it was affecting other people.
Which is the same as being unwilling or incapable; they thought it affected one murderer, and didn't realise that - aside from the fact he was only a suspect in the crime - it affected the due process of literally all Americans.
 
And it's pretty sad that even the worst scumbag still has human rights.

This is the giveaway. Someone who thinks it's unfortunate that criminals still get rights isn't someone who is ever going to have a balanced view. It's so easy to tweak who counts as a criminal - people reaching into their pockets, people with mental illnesses, people who are stressed or overweight. Before you know it you can make anyone you want into a criminal, and feel no remorse at all when the police kill them. And the cops just seem like a bunch of good guys doing their jobs, because they're ridding the world of all these criminals.

Awesome.

DK
Thanks for giving me yet another reason to resign myself to the prospect of Chauvin being acquitted.

One would hope that this is the point at which the US justice system turns itself around and starts actually providing justice. Unfortunately, it would be in stark contrast to pretty much all similar situations that have occurred recently. Apart from the protests, there's sadly not that much that sets George Floyd apart from any number of other people murdered by the police who have then gone on to either be acquitted or given a slap on the wrist.
 
DK
Thanks for giving me yet another reason to resign myself to the prospect of Chauvin being acquitted.
I don't see the equivalency to the Chauvin case. I could hardly care less if one cop beat the crap out of another. I too would have acquitted them - the bully bullied the bully and nobody was held accountable. That is hilarious irony to me.
 
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I don't see the equivalency to the Chauvin case. I could hardly care less if one cop beat the crap out of another. I too would have acquitted them - the bully bullied the bully and nobody was held accountable. That is hilarious irony to me.
...

What?
 
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...

What?
What do you mean what? DK suggested that because a cop got acquitted of beating up his own dude, that Chauvin will be acquitted for murdering a civilian. Those are not the same thing.
 
What do you mean what? DK suggested that because a cop got acquitted of beating up his own dude, that Chauvin will be acquitted for murdering a civilian. Those are not the same thing.
I think it's largely the trend of law enforcement officers accused of excessive force leading to death not being held accountable that drives the notion that Chauvin will be acquitted. Of course my hope is very much that things will be different in this instance, and indeed that the trend will noticeably reverse,

It was my mistake, however, it's my fault for not trimming back the post I quoted to specifically the apparent implication that the undercover Hall was deserving of the beating he got at the hands of law enforcement officers who don't seem to be aware that he was an undercover officer, and the as-far-as-I'm-aware unfounded allegation that Hall was a "bully" in the way that the officers who beat him were "bullies."

Cops are people first and foremost. Some cops, like people, perpetrate harmful and even heinous acts. Those cops who perpetrate harmful and even heinous acts should be equally subject to the criminal justice system as those who don't wear that particular uniform.
 
I don't see the equivalency to the Chauvin case. I could hardly care less if one cop beat the crap out of another. I too would have acquitted them - the bully bullied the bully and nobody was held accountable. That is hilarious irony to me.

Oh hey look, another one who thinks that crimes are sometimes OK if you do them to the right victim.

It doesn't matter who the victim is. Even if they're another cop. Cops can be victims and should have the same right to justice as anyone else. The problem is cops as perpetrators and their apparent immunity to accountability or consequences.

What do you mean what? DK suggested that because a cop got acquitted of beating up his own dude, that Chauvin will be acquitted for murdering a civilian. Those are not the same thing.

From your perspective they're not, because you view cops as completely separate from civilians. This whole thing comes about because there's one rule for cops and one rule for everyone else, so maybe it's time to stop reinforcing that divide.
 
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