The Dedicated Thread to AWD Drifting

Discussion in 'GT4 Drifting' started by ekmatt9, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. ekmatt9

    ekmatt9

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    Alright *Super Moderators*, I talked to Swift about this so don't close this thread...I searched...

    I wanted to make a thread that is dedicated to people who want to learn how to drift AWD cars in GT4. I've gotten myself 2 cars that are completely stock on N1 tires, the R33 Skyline and N1 Skyline (White with black hood) So this thread would be about tuning AWD's in GT4, finding out what the heck is the matter with them, and how we can tune them for what ever car that is AWD that we want to.

    Please Do Not:
    -Swear or curse in this thread.
    -Tease
    -Bring any "garbage" (bad stuff that is not related)

    Thanks GTPlanet people,

    -Matt
     
  2. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    Yep, I certainly ok'd this thread as I see it as being a possible help for AWD drifters. Though we may have to revamp the organization later depending on response.

    Not going to happen bud...I just love playing devil's advocate sometimes. :mischievous:
     
  3. ForcedInduction

    ForcedInduction

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    Yap, don't expect to drift AWD with big angles.
    You can execute short drifts with big angles but for example, don't even think about going 45 degrees + when you're doing apricot hill turn 6.
     
  4. ekmatt9

    ekmatt9

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    Oh alright...I see. Alright, I'll edit that part out and just talk about what cars are good and share some settings if people want to.
     
  5. RobcioPL

    RobcioPL

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    Hmmmm ekmatt9 actually posted something good? Hehehehe :)
     
  6. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    No need for that man. FI and I are just giving you a hard time. It's all in fun and learning to drift well.
     
  7. Folkedahl

    Folkedahl

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    I love drifting 4WD but I usually put 90% of the juice to the rear so It's not too far off RWD. I love drifting the Ford RS200, I've been messin with it a little bit the past couple days. I also found out an RS200 won the Unlimited class in 2004 at Pikes Peak. RS200s rule.
     
  8. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    I know there are a few cases in GT4 where that kind of VCD disturbution is needed to drift AWD, but it's usually not. And when you do this, you're just drifting a FR with a little more ability to pull out of a higher angle. Kinda defeats the purpose of Drifting an AWD if you ask me. But as long as you're having fun, that's what counts.
     
  9. Folkedahl

    Folkedahl

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    Exactly!
     
  10. hideyourface

    hideyourface

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    well I'd like to know how to tune them. This thread hasn't helped that much yet :p

    and whats the difference between AWD and 4WD?
     
  11. ekmatt9

    ekmatt9

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    Nothing, there's just a different way to abbreviate them.
     
  12. Delphic Reason

    Delphic Reason Staff Emeritus

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    AWD = all four wheels are powered at all times (usually with some sort of traction control, or LSD)
    4WD = 2 wheels are powered (usually rear wheels) until you engage the other two making it AWD...

    This is actually a good idea for a thread... I can definitely help, as I have been drifting AWD's since GT2... One thing I will say right off the bat, is do not be affraid to mix tires when dealing with AWD's... Now, I don't mean Sports on the front and N1's on the rear, or anything else as rediculous... usually an N2/N1 setup is more than sufficient.. At least try and keep the mix as close as possible (N2/N1, S2/S1, etc...) This is all due to some of GT4's flaws (understeering/traction coeficient)... Also, 99.9% of the time, you can keep the VCD stock or at least around 30%...

    My formula for AWD's, as a base, is around 450hp to 500hp N2's up front, N1's in the rear, and VCD around 30% to 40%... I'll talk about settings later when I'm not at work...





    ;)
     
  13. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    So what's the point? Just learn how to do FR better. But anyway, on with the AWD discussion! :)
     
  14. Folkedahl

    Folkedahl

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    You'd be suprised how much diff 10% to the front and 0% feel. You barely need any countersteer if any even with only 10% up front.

    But anyway. I bought this giant Nissan Stagea (4WD) wagon beast and it rules! The engine is good for over 500hp. It looks really sweet sideways becuase it is so long too.
     
  15. ekmatt9

    ekmatt9

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    ...I drifted that car perfectly with countersteer all the time...But I sold it by accident :( :mad:
     
  16. Mad Murphy NZ

    Mad Murphy NZ

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    Actually there's lots of FWD based 4WD cars, particularly Japanese cars. The 4WD system is more a safetly precaution than anything for driving in snow and stuff. A lot of everyday Japanese cars come with a 4WD option for people who live in places where it snows all winter (or so I've read in car mags). There's also lots of cars that have a manually changable 2WD to 4WD gearbox, I used to own a Subaru ute like this, you engage the 4WD with a stick next to the gearstick and it switched from FWD to 4WD. Lots of 80's Subarus were like this.
     
  17. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    Actually, I wouldn't. While my experience with AWD is limited, I have a very good understanding of how it effects the techniques of drifting. Espeically line and countersteer.

    But whatever floats your boat bud. :)
     
  18. ekmatt9

    ekmatt9

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    I'm going to practice on some Skyline R32 V Spec settings tonight. Hopefully it can drift with out hitting walls...Oh, and how come when ever I take an angle, and go too much by a little bit, and then bring it back, the car seems to hit the wall no matter what and then go back straight...I can't straighten out evenly.
     
  19. Valve Timing

    Valve Timing

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    I'm gonna work on the R32 s-tune as well and I will post my progress . I'm glad you made this thread matt It should help the entire GT4 Drifting community
     
  20. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    hrm, this thread swelled up pretty quickly.

    ok, here's just some of my findings from DSJ: Volume 3 where a bunch of us tried setting the Evo VIII MR GSR for drifting. [here's my settings]
    • you most certainly want to set the rear LSD accel and decel higher than the front accel and decel.
      I don't know why this works... I'd expect the opposite but in practice that idea failed miserably.

    • a VCD setting of 25 to 40 is pretty reasonable IMO. here's a trend I noticed on the Evo VIII:
      setting the distribution farther to the front allowed for the car to drift greater lateral distances (it tended to drift in a straight line). At ~500hp the increased power being sent to the front would get all four tires spinning under lateral load with the gas applied. At lower power levels I expect this trait would be less pronounced​
      setting the distribution farther to the rear (smaller number), resulted in a car that would actually want to round a turn rather than visit the run off. The front tires spun less and so pulled the car towards the corner apex. Setting the VCD too low would remove the ability to do zero-counter drifts over large distances.​
      You have to find a reasonable comprimise between drifting distance and cornering ability with this setting.​

    • AYC's make make mid drift behaviour confusing. Sometimes the proper way to correct your line is counter-intuitive :boggled:

    • Tire stagger is a huge huge help (as DR already made mention of). I'd state as a rule of thumb that it is not necessary to go more than 1 compound stickier on the front of the car... but that's open to debate.

    • Setting the weight balance to the rear (+'ve number) without actually adding ballast weight does seem to affect the cornering performance of the car.
      ...ya, maybe it's just a placebo effect. But I hold this to be true.

    • The same suspension guidelines that most people agree with (stiff front + soft rear = oversteer at corner entry) still hold true. I found the need to go softer on the Evo VIII than I would on many FR's. But this may have been an effect of doing the chassis stiffening mod.

    • AIDS are still not necessary, imo. I'm dead set against using them. There's instances where I might want to drop revs during a drift - but with ASMU activated it is 'unpossible'. It's kind of like a cruise control system while you're cornering.

    • wings may help, but again, I don't view them as a necessity. I'd term them a 'last resort option'. I dislike them because their effectiveness is proportional to the square of your velocity.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    That's it for now.
    I have some AWD drift clips available here: http://www.bgj.ca/GT4/BLvids/BL-DSJ3.xvid.avi

    I don't think it was ever doubted, but the vid shows you can get respectable angles and complete long links with zero-counter drifts. (warning - my line selection is quite abhorrent, take appropriate precautions :p )
     
  21. ekmatt9

    ekmatt9

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    Thanks Vtec, I personally started a thread similar to this in another GTP user name I had...But no body was really interested in it. All that they did was post and not reply back. So I went ahead and started this...And hopefully, we can all learn something from here :)

    And Thanks BL for writing all that up. Like you said when we were chatting before that your spelling is horrible, now I believe you :lol: That must have taken a while to write up. I actually tried what you said and it partially worked. Thanks dude...

    ...And so far my R32 settings are working okay...It still get big angles that I don't like and it doesn't straighten out right away like I'm used to. The countersteer factor isn't bad. But when I try to turn in again for the car to slide the rear end out, it does the opposite and I am forced away from the turn in the other way...I don't know how to exactly explain it but yeah...
     
  22. Folkedahl

    Folkedahl

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    Sry if I sounded like an ass, I'm still new to drifting compared to you guys. I've been a GT junkie since 1. I left my PS1 on for like a week playing GT1 until I finally got a memory card ha ha. I started drifting when I dled some drifting vids earlier this year.

    BTW, I use maxed shot Nitrous heavily with the 10% to the front setup. I drift my Impreza C-spec with 30 sumtin up front and I don't really need nitrous.

    I always thought that adjusting the weight balance didn't do anything unless there was ballast weight to move around. I could be wrong though.
     
  23. Folkedahl

    Folkedahl

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    oops, musta clicked twice

    mods delete
     
    Heartfire1617 likes this.
  24. ForcedInduction

    ForcedInduction

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    ekmatt, AWD countersteering is very different.

    If you need to countersteer out of a drift, you need to countersteer with throttle. If you lay off the throttle and try to pull out of a drift, you're going to spin out no matter what.
     
  25. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    I have no idea how AWD cars behave in real life - so keep that in mind while reading this.

    GT4 seems to approach AWD's by applying FF physics to the front end, and FR to the rear. In an FF you induce understeer if you brake and turn in, or brake and accelerate at the same time, the same seems to happen in AWD.
    Your front end traction budget has three potential draws on it - two of them will be present almost all of the time. So the ability to withstand lateral loading is diminished.

    If you want to increase rotation mid drift the only sure-fire option I've found is to ebrake or hope that you're in a torquey power band and just romp on the gas praying that the rear will give way first.
    The effects of countersteering or steering-in after you've initiated drift are still a little bit puzzling to me. I'm sure the effects can be explained concisely by someone else, but for me the car's behaviour becomes rather unpredictable when I adjust the steering angle.
    (especially if you have an AYC equipped LanEvo - and if this is the case, then e-braking doesnt always work either)
    The car seems to respond differently to steering adjustment if you are just initiating drift, or if you are smack in the middle of one.

    edit:
    this is slightly outside the context of this thread
    try it on a MR or RR and judge for yourself - RUF's undergo huge transformations when you do this. I honestly do believe it makes a difference. It'd be like relocating a battery or something (though, i have no idea how GT4 would determine what amount of the car's existing weight is actually being adjusted).
    some of the guys in the settings and tuning forum have discussed it. It might be worth searching for a relevant topic there.
     
  26. Delphic Reason

    Delphic Reason Staff Emeritus

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    You might have noticed I put "Usually the rear wheels", instead of just puting "The rear wheels"... I am well aware of FWD based 4WD's... The fact is, there are more RWD based 4WD vehicles than FWD based 4WD's...

    I have owned 2 Subaru's...

    Also, here are some easy to follow steps to control your angle mid drift (since BL brought it up)...

    E Brake: A great tool to help increase your angle, widen your line (pushing you more towards the outside of the turn), while scrubbing some speed (although not much)...

    Foot Brake: This can be very useful when you want to increase your angle, tighten your line (pulling you more towards the inside of the turn), and scrub more speed (than the E Brake)...

    Everything BL stated in his post is very true, although setting your LSD to a higher setting in the front is usually unecessary... Although, it can be helpful on vehicles that are unusally hard to drift (like the Evo VIII MR)...

    That's very true... It's pretty much like relocating the battery... The Ruf's handle quite differently when you move that ballast to the front... Also, cars like the Mustang GT become much easier to drift with the addition of ballast to the rear (to ofset the heavy front mounted engine)...





    ;)
     
  27. Valve Timing

    Valve Timing

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    I have created some rather good drift settings for the Nismo R32 S-tune
    Parts to buy 498hp 381lb.ft tq
    All weight reductions
    All drivetrain components except for lsd
    Port & Polish ECU Displacement UP Engine Balance
    Stage 2 turbo Race Intercooler Oil change optional
    Race Suspension
    Fully Customizable Transmission
    V.C.D.

    Spring Rate 9.5 10.5
    Shock Bound 8 8
    Shock Rebound 8 8
    Camber Angle 2.5 3.0
    Toe Angle 0 0
    Stabilizers 2 2

    Transmission Autoset 5 Final Drive 4.111
    Variable Center Differential 35% Front Distribution

    After man runs with this carI decided to leave the l.s.d. stock for the simple reason that it made the car understeer alot. I had played around with alot of different setting and I could'nt find anything that suited my style so I took it off . After that I fell in love with my new gtr she now slides around any corner / turn gracefully with good angle and tire smoke , the only problem I have now is when lift off the accelerator for corner exit she has slight spin tendency but it is nothing major. If someone see's any flaws in my setup feel free to post and let me know what I'm doing wrong so that I can correct it and make this car slide better.
     
  28. nk4e

    nk4e

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    I love getting into those almost closed threads...I think I was the first one to turn in settings for the skyline but who knows
    Is a subaru really worth it? because I hope I can get one
     
  29. ekmatt9

    ekmatt9

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    Alright, I've noticed a couple things when drifting AWD's. When it says the "Suggested Gear", I've noticed to actually pay attention to that. My R32 when I was drifting it, the car would always have the back go further out and hit the wall. You mostly top it out when you go through the Drift to make the car go faster, but I seem to top it out and keep it in the "Suggested Gear" and it actually works. I could post my R32 settings tonight and you can tell me whether you like them or not...
     
  30. Leonidae

    Leonidae (Banned)

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    Peugeot 205 T16 roadcar is a perfect awd drift machine even when stock. just do oil change, aids off and put N2's on it and you'll slide around curves smoothly, because it has rare MR-AWD configuration.. and if you tune it up, it'll become like any group B racer..: unstable rocket that spins from slightest error. T16 is perfect fun at el capitain and on many other tracks too. this car was MADE FOR fast drifts! :drool:

    Subaru Impreza 22B STi is also wonderful slider. low center of gravity, compact body and plenty of power: pure "cargasm" in corners. and it just gets better when fully tuned.