The Dodge Charger just got emasculated...

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KillerMRK2
Well, Chrysler wimped out on keeping Dodge the performance brand. You can now get the Dodge Charger SE with the 2.7 liter V-6. :indiff: That engine is hardly adequate for a car of that mass! It'll be even worse than the Five Hundred. :scared: Why Chrysler, why??? :nervous:


I'm just so mad! It makes you feel that Chrysler doesn't care. :(
 
Aren't the Magnum and/or the 300 available with that engine? As long as there is still a top dog version I don't much car whats available underneath, just means more people will be able to buy a car that is underpowered but otherwise pretty good.
 
I always thought that the Charger was better than the 300 for the fact that it was cheaper even though it had a better engine, now thats the case, but it has an engine from a Kia*! :grumpy:

Look - 24 even for a 3.5 Charger, 26.5K for a 2.7 liter 300. Also, they brought that crappy 4 speed with them also! Another thing that makes it worse.

*Used by pretty much all DCX, Hyundai, Kia, and DSM cars.
 
Ummm, you've always been able to option out the 2.7L V6 on the Charger and the Magnum since their debut a few years back. The same V6 has always been available in the 300 as well. The 2.7L V6 has been a long-standing model in the DCX lineup, and they wouldn't have ditched it completely. These models are what make-up their fleet sales, and how they get poseurs to buy the cheaper models.

Most people with a level head will buy the 3.5L version, don't worry. Most dealers here in Michigan only carry the 3.5L and 5.7L models. Every SE that I've seen on the road has been a rental, and the easiest way to spot them are the hubcaps.

...IMO, if Chrysler was smart they would dump the 2.7L, drop the 3.5L down on the basic model, and stick the 4.0L V6 in the SXT. But, thats just my opinion...
 
Aren't the Magnum and/or the 300 available with that engine?

Yes for three years now - presumably the reason this isn't in the Auto News forum. Perhaps if there was a 'Matthew Keller just realized something we all knew forum', it could go in there but this was the best place for it until that happens.
 
Who the hell gives a crap about the base engine?


Who the hell buys a car KNOWING FULL WELL that everyone with the model above it will laugh hysterically at you when you show up to a "North East Charger Association" club meet.


I made that up, but I bet it exists. NECA is not as radical and made-up-ish as GLAMOR. Greater Los Angeles Miata Owners R. And that actually does exist.
 
IMHO, it's not a dodge without a 440ci option!

-edit-

Note to self, do not post after 20-odd JW+Coke cans
 
I think most people are going to opt for the bigger V6 anyway, despite the fact that the V8 is recommended most often. The utter lack of power in the 2.7L kills performance not only in the Charger, but even the Avenger, and there is a pretty big difference in weight and performance between the two.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that is the smallest V6 made available by an American automaker in any car, and certainly one of the least-powerful, if not the weakest V6 offered in a brand-new vehicle. I believe the next-largest engine on the American list is the 2.8L V6 found in the CTS, and that makes another 20 BHP over the Dodge (190 BHP vs 210 BHP), and as we have seen in the Saab lineup, that 2.8L V6 is easily adaptable up to 250 BHP with the addition of a turbocharger.

That said, Chrysler has stepped their game up with the 3.5L V6, pushing the power up to 255 BHP, on-par with that of GM's LY7 (252-300 BHP) and Ford's new "Cyclone" 3.5L V6, which produces around 260-270 BHP. Is it enough? Not necessarily. With GM and Ford quickly adapting their engine lines to meet the demands of their customers and to better keep-up with the competition, Chrysler is bound to lose-out. We'll see what happens...
 
I made that up, but I bet it exists. NECA is not as radical and made-up-ish as GLAMOR. Greater Los Angeles Miata Owners R. And that actually does exist.

The "R" is just there? There's not even a word associated with it?

Saw a base (2.7-liter) 300 last night here in Denver with California plates.
 
Google it. The R is just there to make GLAMOR a word.

Seriously it is the absolute gayest thing I've ever heard.

They aren't helping the connotation with the car AT ALL.
 
Well, Chrysler wimped out on keeping Dodge the performance brand. You can now get the Dodge Charger SE with the 2.7 liter V-6. :indiff: That engine is hardly adequate for a car of that mass! It'll be even worse than the Five Hundred. :scared: Why Chrysler, why??? :nervous:


I'm just so mad! It makes you feel that Chrysler doesn't care. :(

Well, from day one they've had them..... Although, that engine is mostly used in the fleet cars.
 
Google it. The R is just there to make GLAMOR a word.

Seriously it is the absolute gayest thing I've ever heard.

They aren't helping the connotation with the car AT ALL.

There are no hits when you google "Greater Los Angeles Miata Owners."

Liar.
 
I find it funny that Matt thinks Dodge just emasculated the Charger, when they released this 20 years ago:
800pxplymouthdustereekmv6.jpg

I'm also shocked that no one else (especially Doug) has picked up upon this irony and chastised Matt further.
 
Google it. The R is just there to make GLAMOR a word.

Seriously it is the absolute gayest thing I've ever heard.

They aren't helping the connotation with the car AT ALL.

I hate LOONY, or Lotus Owners of New York.

I would be shamed to be a Loony, as they call themselves.
 
I find it funny that Matt thinks Dodge just emasculated the Charger, when they released this 20 years ago:
800pxplymouthdustereekmv6.jpg

I'm also shocked that no one else (especially Doug) has picked up upon this irony and chastised Matt further.

Haha, there is a guy about a block from my school with one of those in the exact same colour, except his is in perfect condition and looks like it just rolled off the dealership lot.
 
I'm also shocked that no one else (especially Doug) has picked up upon this irony and chastised Matt further.[/SIZE][/FONT]

PEUGEOT MADE THE ENGINE FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

Directly from Wikipedia:

"In 1981, the Charger nameplate returned as a performance package on the Omni O24. Called the Charger 2.2, it cost $399 extra and came with a hood scoop, quarter-window appliques, special gearing, rear spoiler and "Charger 2.2" tape graphics and the new 84 hp 2.2 L I4 which was designed and built by Chrysler. 7,306 were built."

$400 for tape and 84 horsepower (up from an astonishingly large 70 in the base engine). Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is a deal.
 
Not in GLH trim it's not.

Besides, anybody heard of the Leaning Tower of Power? You could get the Chrysler Slant Six in all the classic 'musclecar' bodies in the late '60s and early '70s.

The Tempest/LeMans/GTO base engine was an OHC 6 cylinder as well, in the same body as the GTO's 389 or 400 cid mill (depending on the year).

This is not ANYTHING new at all.
 
Not in GLH trim it's not.

Besides, anybody heard of the Leaning Tower of Power? You could get the Chrysler Slant Six in all the classic 'musclecar' bodies in the late '60s and early '70s.

The Tempest/LeMans/GTO base engine was an OHC 6 cylinder as well, in the same body as the GTO's 389 or 400 cid mill (depending on the year).

This is not ANYTHING new at all.

Those sixes at least were somewhat fast. The 2.7...not so much.

but, so what? does it matter? I think this is just another chance for Dodge bashers to do their thing.
 
Wait? Do what? Point out the obvious shortfall in Dodge's engine lineup?

C'mon. Even Ford figured out how to build a V6 engine two years ago, and GMs been doing it better every year. So when can we expect the same from Chrysler etc?
 
Wait? Do what? Point out the obvious shortfall in Dodge's engine lineup?

C'mon. Even Ford figured out how to build a V6 engine two years ago, and GMs been doing it better every year. So when can we expect the same from Chrysler etc?

They do build a good V6 - what's wrong with the 250hp 3.5-liter that serves as the middle engine for this vehicle? Sure it's SOHC but it produces the right power with the right output.
 
Yes, the 3.5 has improved, and I'll give them that. However, I can't say its the best American V6 offering. That award would either to the the 'Cyclone' 3.5L unit from Ford, or the 3.6L LY7 from GM. However, we could always pick on Ford for the 3.0L Duratec and GM for, well... They've improved most of their V6 lineup, so I guess we would have to point and laugh at the still-running 4.3L V6 in the Silverado.
 
Well, what about Chryslers base V8 in the Dakota? Isn't it like 235 hp? But theres a good amount of torque. Also, the least powerful V6 would have to be the same 2.7 liter V6 in the kia Optima, it makes 183 hp.
 
Well, what about Chryslers base V8 in the Dakota? Isn't it like 235 hp? But theres a good amount of torque. Also, the least powerful V6 would have to be the same 2.7 liter V6 in the kia Optima, it makes 183 hp.

It makes 185 horsepower, which puts it up there with the Chevrolet Equinox and Pontiac Torrent, which use a 3.4-liter unit. Though those two are probably the worst SUVs on the market, compared to the Optima which is just one of the worst sedans.

However the queen of underperforming V6s is the Ford Ranger, which is still using a 148-horsepower 3-liter unit. :rolleyes:

And that 2.7-liter you mentioned is in the Hyundai Tucson and Kia Sportage, good for just 173 horsepower in those vehicles.
 
Wait? Do what? Point out the obvious shortfall in Dodge's engine lineup?

C'mon. Even Ford figured out how to build a V6 engine two years ago, and GMs been doing it better every year. So when can we expect the same from Chrysler etc?

And, believe me, I'm tired as hell about hearing about it, like it's the worst engine in the world. (not that it's that great, hell, it's not even Chrysler's, but I'm sure there's worse mills.)

I get frustrated whenever I hear about the 2.7. It makes cars run like a three-legged dog. (sorry to use a D.W.-ism) I realize I'm being a bit fanboyish...

but don't you always want the best for your guys?
 
If the Suzuki Verona is still available (not sure if it is) with that sad excuse for a 6 cyl it had when it first came out then it would take the cake for least powerful, it made less that 180hp.
 
YSSMAN
Even Ford figured out how to build a V6 engine two years ago, and GMs been doing it better every year.
Yes, and both companies had put it in a total of around two products each until just recently, with Ford relying on the Duratec 3.0 and even the Vulcan up until quite recently. GM used the 3800 in everything car-related, and will continue to use the 4300 in everything truck related (despite having the far superior Atlas that would also fit in the engine bay).
Meanwhile, Chrysler has offered the 2.7 and 3.5 since 1998 and 1993, respectively.

It makes 185 horsepower, which puts it up there with the Chevrolet Equinox and Pontiac Torrent, which use a 3.4-liter unit. Though those two are probably the worst SUVs on the market, compared to the Optima which is just one of the worst sedans.
Don't. Start.
I know that this was just bait, so before the argument begins, cut it.

M5Power
However the queen of underperforming V6s is the Ford Ranger, which is still using a 148-horsepower 3-liter unit. :rolleyes:
In Ford's defense, I'm not sure anyone even buys them anymore. And the truck probably hasn't been updated since it was new.
 
Directly from Wikipedia:

"In 1981, the Charger nameplate returned as a performance package on the Omni O24. Called the Charger 2.2, it cost $399 extra and came with a hood scoop, quarter-window appliques, special gearing, rear spoiler and "Charger 2.2" tape graphics and the new 84 hp 2.2 L I4 which was designed and built by Chrysler. 7,306 were built."

$400 for tape and 84 horsepower (up from an astonishingly large 70 in the base engine). Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is a deal.


I lol'd at the text in bold. That. Is. Hysterical.

Yes, the 3.5 has improved, and I'll give them that. However, I can't say its the best American V6 offering. That award would either to the the 'Cyclone' 3.5L unit from Ford, or the 3.6L LY7 from GM. However, we could always pick on Ford for the 3.0L Duratec and GM for, well... They've improved most of their V6 lineup, so I guess we would have to point and laugh at the still-running 4.3L V6 in the Silverado.

The new Ford 3.5L V6 is astonishingly good. I can't wait to drive the new Five Hundred (I'm not calling it the Taurus...ever...) with it. Should be a blast in AWD trim. And what's wrong with the 3.0L Duratec V6 that's in the Fusion? It's quite quick. And the Ranger has the worst engine numbers of any vehicle I've ever seen.

If the Suzuki Verona is still available (not sure if it is) with that sad excuse for a 6 cyl it had when it first came out then it would take the cake for least powerful, it made less that 180hp.

What's sad is my 1995 & 1996 Nissan Maximas had 190bhp--over TEN years ago. 180bhp in a V6 post year 2000 is just putrid.
 
Don't. Start.
I know that this was just bait, so before the argument begins, cut it.

I forgot those are the two cars you love most! I say we have a long argument wherein I mention many significant reasons why the vehicles are horrible and you say stuff like 'they're sharp' and 'you want a Buick.' You down?
 
but don't you always want the best for your guys?

I want the best for all three of the guys, and unfortuantely not everyone is doing what needs to be done to get back to where they are supposed to be. Is everyone perfect? Certainly not. Ford still doesn't have a serious V8 program that is able to compete directly with the GM and DCX units, and GM has made the mistake of keeping the 4L60E and its spin-offs for just a bit too long.

They could all do better, but when the others seem to be improving at an impressive rate, you have to wonder why DCX isn't doing the same...

Toronado
Yes, and both companies had put it in a total of around two products each until just recently, with Ford relying on the Duratec 3.0 and even the Vulcan up until quite recently. GM used the 3800 in everything car-related, and will continue to use the 4300 in everything truck related (despite having the far superior Atlas that would also fit in the engine bay).
Meanwhile, Chrysler has offered the 2.7 and 3.5 since 1998 and 1993, respectively.

Point taken, however the Duratec 3.0 and 3800 were more than adequate for quite some time. However it has been made fairly clear by GM that they want to let the 3800 go (although they will still be available in S/C form in the GM High Performance catalog), I believe the last remaining model to use it being the Buick LaCrosse. That I believe will be replaced by the LY7 on all models, but I can't be completely certain. The "High Value" 3500 engine is already making a dent in its updated form, and the 3900 hasn't performed too badly either.

...The Duratec 3.0 will live on, most likely in Mazda-tuned form for quite some time. It too will eventually be phased-out by the Duratec 3.5, which is indeed a good idea, as it is a far-better alternative not only to the American counterparts, but also that of the Germans and Japanese. Well, as long as we don't talk about the 3.6L VR6 from VW...

JCE3000GT
And what's wrong with the 3.0L Duratec V6 that's in the Fusion?

Noting really I suppose. It does a good job doing what it needs to do, and in the updated Mazda-spec form, its obviously a much-better unit than when it was in the old Taurus-spec shape. Compared to the GM 3500, I'd say it is a better engine in the Fusion against the Aura XE, but that may just be me.

---

Each of the various companies obviously have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to engine building. The General obviously has the formula for building great V8 engines, and Chrysler has certainly caught-up with their HEMI modular formula. The V6 title gets thrown around a bit, depending on what you want and how you want it, and although I would certainly side with GM in most of those circumstances, Ford stands to gain a lot of ground with the Cyclone program. On the subject of four-pots, that one pretty much goes to Ford without a problem. GM only has one stand-out I4, and the same can be said of DCX (although it isn't out yet, SRT-4), while Ford (through Mazda) continues to make rather punchy, fun, and affordable I4 engines. Although on Diesel power I'd call it a solid draw. The Cummins is awesome, the Duramax is by-far the most refined, and the Powerstroke is indeed the most powerful. The only winner there is the consumer, because they have three good choices to make.
 
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