The Impeachment of Donald Trump

Discussion in 'Opinions & Current Events' started by Dotini, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Tomorrow a vote is scheduled to formalize impeachment proceeding against Donald Trump. This will be the third impeachment attempt in my lifetime, so a fairly rare event. There have been several impeachments of sitting US presidents over history, though none to my knowledge have succeeded in conviction and formal removal. Perhaps this will be the first?

    Wikipedia may be a good place to start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_inquiry_against_Donald_Trump

    Please feel free to chip in pro or con, ask questions, add new developments or historical commentary as you see fit. Cartoons are fine (by me) too, though there is perhaps a more correct thread for those.

    Tell us how you feel. Let it all hang out.
     
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  2. Eunos_Cosmo

    Eunos_Cosmo

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    If the allegations against him have merit (a large amount of evidence/testimony publicly known seems to support them) then his actions are indefensible, as they constitute a pretty significant crime with genuine national security implications - at least more so than a tug job.... He should be duly impeached and removed. Hello President Pence.

    But I don't think that will happen. My feeling is that the evidence will become too great for the GOP to defend against and their process arguments are becoming increasing untenable. What happens when they move on? One possibility I see is the Senate majority switching tactics and going from defending his actions to condemning his actions, perhaps even censuring the President, but not voting to remove him. That would allow them to escape an appearance of complete lawlessness without cannibalizing one of their own.
     
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  3. CinnamonOD

    CinnamonOD

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    It'll be counterproductive for the 2020 Democrat hopes either way

    Trump is impeached? Say hello to Mike Pence, someone who people rightfully refer to as a monster, then what, pit him against whoever steals the Democratic Primaries?
    Impeachement proceedings failed? 2020 Elections will be a piece of cake for President Trump, because at this point, if the Democratic Party is pushing so hard to put depose Trump, just about one year before possibly leaving office, means that they don't see themselves winning as comfortably (or at all) as one would think, even with the massive support for them you see in many places (Social Media, MSM such as CNN and similars, and other internet platforms)

    I can't see it actually proceeding, both chambers of congress have a Republican majority anyways.
     
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  4. opelgt1969

    opelgt1969 Premium

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    I don't think he'll be impeached in his second term as president either. The Dems have already shot their self in the foot already and have no one that will be able to beat him in 2020.
     
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  5. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    You assume too much.
     
  6. NotThePrez

    NotThePrez

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    If he isn't removed from office, I'm pretty confident that Trump'll have a 2nd term, primarily because at that point, the Democratic Party will be seen as genuinely incompetent, especially since they haven't done much to make themselves look good over the past ~3 years, nor do their front-runners seem to have a coherent, consistent platform, other than "Trump bad, screw Trump," even though he is. While Trump should be impeached & removed from office due to his actions, do not underestimate the number of voters that see this as solely a party vs. party fight, rather than a Trump vs. the law fight.
     
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  7. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    And hence why the government and voting system in this country sucks.
     
  8. Darla Starch

    Darla Starch Premium

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    With me as Supreme King of the United States, there'd be no need to worry about silly things as "voting". :sly:
     
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  9. ryzno

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    We're doing better than the UK and their Brexit/government and we do GET TO VOTE for our leader. ;)
    Just watching the threads here it seems their government is literally falling apart.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  10. eran0004

    eran0004

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    I don’t know about that. The British PM is actually held accountable for their actions. :D
     
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  11. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  12. BobK

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    I read a news article which I can't find again this morning saying some Dems are talking about impeaching Pence as well.

    Which if successful, would leave Pelosi as President. She could then sign into law all those bills we have to pass to find out what's in them.
     
  13. opelgt1969

    opelgt1969 Premium

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    Pelosi should be at the top of impeachment list just because she's Pelosi.
     
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  14. jjaisli

    jjaisli Premium

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    Maybe you were looking for this one...

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/25/trump-pence-ukraine-phone-calls-1512771

    Where Trump implicates his own VP into the scandal. So it's little wonder that Pence is likely to be a part of the process.

    As for Pelosi becoming interim President, it's entirely possible. Although I sincerely hope it doesn't happen. It's the law but I think it would set a very unhealthy precedent and it would only serve to further divide the country by having a President nobody voted into office and would complicate and cast a shadow over the election process.

    Besides, just imagine the scandal if she nominated Hillary as interim Vice President. I could already hear the collective howling.
     
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  15. Liquid

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    It has already happened with Gerald Ford, a man who served as Vice President and President despite not being elected to either office.
     
  16. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    I think you underestimate the willingness of the American people to vote for whoever is not the worst. That's how we ended up with trump, and there will be a lot of that running against Trump in 2020.
     
  17. NotThePrez

    NotThePrez

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    Fair and valid. I'm really hoping that he doesn't get a 2nd term, but I also wouldn't be shocked if it happens.
     
  18. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    It's pretty hard to oust a president who has delivered the Big Twofer - Peace and Prosperity. So Trump looks to get a passing grade on Peace, but Prosperity is looking iffier, since it is built on excessive debt and the Chinese, now our enemy thanks to Tariffs, appear to be engineering a crash timed for November of next year. So yes, no sure thing.
     
  19. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    Ofer twofer.
     
  20. PocketZeven

    PocketZeven

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    Does he really assume his followers cant read???:banghead:

    [​IMG]

     
  21. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    Done. https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/774777869/house-to-vote-to-formalize-outline-impeachment-inquiry

    They knew they had the votes back then, but they wanted to (and were allowed to) gather more information. As I said at the time, once they wanted to have a public vote, they would. And that is exactly what happened.

    Edit:

    Pelosi is writing a spot in the history books for herself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  22. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    As I understand it, the Intelligence Committee will continue to lead the process for awhile, but at some point they will turn the matter over to the Judicial Committee to formalize and write up the Articles of Impeachment. At this point it is unknown (to me) exactly what High Crime will be charged. In a sense, it doesn't matter, because Congress could impeach a ham sandwich on a charge of mopery if it wanted to.

    But just for fun, who has an idea of exactly what the charge will be?
     
  23. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    Bribery at a minimum: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors".

    Edit:

    Here's a "high crimes and misdemeanors" angle:

     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  24. Biggles

    Biggles

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    Yes - but the ironic thing about what's happening in the UK is that the whole quagmire was created by the people GETTING TO VOTE directly for a government policy (leaving the EU).
     
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  25. Biggles

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    You forgot that part.

    Of course, Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury & obstruction of justice for trying to conceal the *******, rather than the ******* itself. However, the process under which Ken Starr ended up there is pretty questionable.

    In Trump's case, the evidence is pretty much out there in the open to start with. The question is: how seriously do you take it? And the follow up question is: if Trump gets away with this, how much further would he go in the future, particularly if he won a second term?
     
  26. PocketZeven

    PocketZeven

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    You actually dont get to vote directly for your leader. Because of the electoral college:

    - when you vote for your candidate you are actually voting for your candidate’s electors.
    - Some votes in certain states weigh in 4 times as much as votes in other states states. (wyoming vs california)
    - The one who wins the most votes does not automatically win
    - It discourages more parties (winner takes all)

    edit:
    If Trump gets away, he will be empowered and further think he is untouchable and feed his godcomplex. I am certain he will campaign for more or longer terms (he already implied to it multiple times) or even being president for life.
     
  27. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    As I understand it, so far the only allegation out there being aired against Trump is that he made a phone call to the President of Ukraine which threatened to withhold armaments to Ukraine unless Ukraine investigated Hunter Biden. Is that correct?
     
  28. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    There is also a coverup to contend with, but I think that's the main point. His demonstrated history (especially in this particular arena) will be brought in to establish a consistent record.
     
  29. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    The essence of Nixon's impeachable crime was the attempt to cover up activities that took place after the break-in, and to use federal officials to deflect the investigation.

    I, for one, do not see how the political quid pro quo, Trump's dealings with a foreign president, can be held as a high crime. So, yes, it would have to be a coverup - lying under oath, destruction of evidence, directing subordinates to lie or conceal evidence, that kind of thing.

    The above is my opinion only - I'm not a lawyer. But I'm going to be talking with a lawyer currently working in government legislation and policy this weekend, and we'll discuss it.
     
  30. Danoff

    Danoff Premium

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    He withheld money (aid), but promised to hand it over in exchange for a personal favor from the Ukraine. How is that not bribery? Where's the difficulty here?
     
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