The Political Cartoon/Image/Meme Thread

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Do you honestly think I really believe he is a good guy?

Either the media is indispensible in a democracy or it isn't.

Do I really think who is a good guy? The guy that throws stones at the media when they don't go along with his undeveloped and questionable plans or the guy who manipulated media into buying into a questionable military escapade?

I mean I love people's hindsight sometimes when dealing with current situations they don't like by forgetting past situations they didn't like, to make said current situation worse. Because honestly neither is good, and you end ultimatum is a loaded thought. Media isn't indispensible, but bad media is and should be noted for being such. Does that make the President the decider, no? Nor should it because there is a nice history of how that worked out. Manipulating it to play your song and dance and have no integrity that holds you accountable...is equally as bad.
 
Do I really think who is a good guy? The guy that throws stones at the media when they don't go along with his undeveloped and questionable plans or the guy who manipulated media into buying into a questionable military escapade?

I mean I love people's hindsight sometimes when dealing with current situations they don't like by forgetting past situations they didn't like, to make said current situation worse.

You're using hindsight to determine that the media was intentionally manipulated by President Bush. There's a much simpler explanation...
 
You're using hindsight to determine that the media was intentionally manipulated by President Bush. There's a much simpler explanation...

If not manipulated, then simply not doing their job the first time around to see why U.N. inspectors and others saw no reason for an invasion. There are certain parts of said reasoning that were okay, but the final mythical portions drawn up by the admin and sold to the international community is not honesty or signs of a good guy or guys
 
If not manipulated, then simply not doing their job the first time around to see why U.N. inspectors and others saw no reason for an invasion.

Totally irrelevant. The UN didn't want to invade... fine... that makes them, what... correct? Nobody can disagree? This is not an example of the media not doing their job.

There are certain parts of said reasoning that were okay, but the final mythical portions drawn up by the admin and sold to the international community is not honesty or signs of a good guy or guys

I've been over this with either you or someone else on here before, and the case for there being "mythical portions" drawn up for the purpose of selling a story is not very strong.
 
I've been over this with either you or someone else on here before, and the case for there being "mythical portions" drawn up for the purpose of selling a story is not very strong.

Apart from the legally-verified case, which is very strong.

george.jpg
 
This is missing the point somewhat. Somebody exposed the dodgy dossier. Would that have been as likely in a media-free world?

Do I really think who is a good guy?
I'd appreciate not being misquoted. I didn't accuse you of thinking anyone was a good guy. Nor did I say the President was the decider of who is bad media or isn't.

You're honestly reading a lot into a simple meme picture.
 
This is missing the point somewhat. Somebody exposed the dodgy dossier. Would that have been as likely in a media-free world?

I'd appreciate not being misquoted. I didn't accuse you of thinking anyone was a good guy.

First off I didn't misquote you or attempt to, I simply misread what you posted, so please try not to take things to heart. Since in my long time here I've yet to actually misquote someone. And no I never said you thought he was a good guy, but I do find it silly as a screen shot. So I mean seeing some of the attitudes on here in regards to Trump I wouldn't be surprised if people agreed with it.
 
First off I didn't misquote you or attempt to, I simply misread what you posted, so please try not to take things to heart. Since in my long time here I've yet to actually misquote someone.
Well, apology accepted, I guess.

And no I never said you thought he was a good guy, but I do find it silly as a screen shot. So I mean seeing some of the attitudes on here in regards to Trump I wouldn't be surprised if people agreed with it.
I'm sorry the picture wasn't as supportive of Trump as other posts here. I would've thought the point was non-partisan considered to who it was attributed though, unless you're saying that the thread should be restricted to posts supportive of Trump instead.
 
Totally irrelevant. The UN didn't want to invade... fine... that makes them, what... correct? Nobody can disagree? This is not an example of the media not doing their job.

No one said that, what is being said here is that Bush was a good guy because he respect media, what media did was pedal points of the invasion that at the time and more aptly later were shown to be either untrue, or not nearly as serious as media would have had you originally believe. Thus if someone investigated further as to why the U.N. inspectors even during supposed blocking still didn't see a reason to invade. If they realized that the Kurdish defector who was supposedly from the inner ring of Saddam that later confirmed wasn't really so, when few others found it quite improbable.

I've been over this with either you or someone else on here before, and the case for there being "mythical portions" drawn up for the purpose of selling a story is not very strong.

You went over it with someone else, because I actually remember that situation and I agreed with you as I stated here in fewer words. That there were parts of the Iraq Resolution that were broken and justified military deployment, the focal points that were pedaled by the media and helped Bush gain almost universal support however not so. Fly zone violation against coalition aircraft I agree with, civilians being controlled and killed by regime did happen, funding non-Iranian backed terror groups that also didn't like the U.S. there is some reality to it.

Newly manufactured and maintained WMDs of biological and chemical origin and seeking out to arm with nuclear weapons.

Once again, parts of the Resolution
Well, apology accepted, I guess.

It's not an apology, rather a simple mistake, that you seemed to take to heart with your previous comment. So I replied in kind because you could have simply corrected with out what seems to read as malicious attempt. At least that's usually the vibe given when one accuses another of purposely misquoting.

I'm sorry the picture wasn't as supportive of Trump as other posts here. I would've thought the point was non-partisan considered to who it was attributed though, unless you're saying that the thread should be restricted to posts supportive of Trump instead.

Okay...I think you're confused, by comment isn't in defense of Trump. The image is trying to find some decency in a former president where the current lacks, as if deserved. I simply said that I disagree (which is what this thread is for) that either should be given such in this regard.

The fact you find this a defense for Trump, already makes me question this "non-partisan" ideal. So in view to what you've said I'd wish that you wouldn't read into or assume something, when I clearly didn't post any defense for Trump.
 
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No one said that, what is being said here is that Bush was a good guy because he respect media, what media did was pedal points of the invasion that at the time and more aptly later were shown to be either untrue, or not nearly as serious as media would have had you originally believe. Thus if someone investigated further as to why the U.N. inspectors even during supposed blocking still didn't see a reason to invade. If they realized that the Kurdish defector who was supposedly from the inner ring of Saddam that later confirmed wasn't really so, when few others found it quite improbable.



You went over it with someone else, because I actually remember that situation and I agreed with you as I stated here in fewer words. That there were parts of the Iraq Resolution that were broken and justified military deployment, the focal points that were pedaled by the media and helped Bush gain almost universal support however not so. Fly zone violation against coalition aircraft I agree with, civilians being controlled and killed by regime did happen, funding non-Iranian backed terror groups that also didn't like the U.S. there is some reality to it.

Newly manufactured and maintained WMDs of biological and chemical origin and seeking out to arm with nuclear weapons.

Once again, parts of the Resolution

Agreed that the production and nuclear capabilities that were alleged weren't there. Although keep in mind that Saddam himself was trying to walk the line between compliance and WMD pretense. He wanted the rest of the world to believe he had those capabilities, and was notorious for his use of chemical weapons, perhaps for that very purpose. So there's the notion that the US government bought the bluster and believed he was guilty of those specific things (he was guilty of so much, of course, but not those specific things), and then there's the entirely separate notion that the US government knew that they would not find a nuclear program or chemical and biological weapons manufacturing programs in place and invented it all for the nefarious purpose of wasting tax dollars, getting people killed, and ultimately having the entire world discover that there were no WMD manufacturing programs.

The notion that Bush knew he'd end up with egg on his face and intentionally lied about it and manipulated the media into shilling it to the American people because he's... not a good guy... doesn't hold water. What's the payoff? Money? He didn't need it. Power? He didn't need it.

So no, I don't agree that he media did his bidding.
 
Agreed that the production and nuclear capabilities that were alleged weren't there. Although keep in mind that Saddam himself was trying to walk the line between compliance and WMD pretense. He wanted the rest of the world to believe he had those capabilities, and was notorious for his use of chemical weapons, perhaps for that very purpose. So there's the notion that the US government bought the bluster and believed he was guilty of those specific things (he was guilty of so much, of course, but not those specific things), and then there's the entirely separate notion that the US government knew that they would not find a nuclear program or chemical and biological weapons manufacturing programs in place and invented it all for the nefarious purpose of wasting tax dollars, getting people killed, and ultimately having the entire world discover that there were no WMD manufacturing programs.

The problem is that there was never any evidence that supported the ramblings that he was ever close to being capable, those who claimed the meeting with the Africans was nothing more than hyperbole to the fact that U.N. inspectors only ever found a decaying decades old stockpile of weapons in poor storage. Which would later on be reaffirmed as troops coming home had some suffer from said weapons after clearing caches.

The problem is it's not a notion, it boils down to a hunch of saying that prior evidence is enough to point to a current trend that never to this day proved factual. It was basically a government saying "do you really want to wait and see what happens and us say we told you so? Or would you rather us take care of it before that?"

The notion that Bush knew he'd end up with egg on his face and intentionally lied about it and manipulated the media into shilling it to the American people because he's... not a good guy... doesn't hold water. What's the payoff? Money? He didn't need it. Power? He didn't need it.

So no, I don't agree that he media did his bidding.

I wouldn't necessarily say he knew but I'm not convinced that his better thinking members of staff weren't aware that they were selling a war that could at best be based on circumstantial evidence, and emotional rhetoric from the original gulf war. The fact that he says the media is good because they actually supported him, where they refuse to support the current is a hypocrisy for reasons given.

The reason I say the media did the work for him, is because the media believe they did, so either they give themselves too much credit or they're actually to blame.
 
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It's actually pretty weak if you read the wikipedia article. Maybe you want to highlight something.

Well... you're not the @Danoff I'm used to if you settle for the Wiki article itself, really it was the collection of sources that I wanted you to see. I admit I could have been more clear about that :)

The Chilcott Inquiry (linked as a wiki with the official sources therein) is a hell of read, it describes obfuscation and outright lies on both sides of the pond in the presentation of the case for war.
 
LOOK WHAT THOSE BASTARDS ARE DOING!!!

a8yEqnO_460s.jpg


Poor oranges.

If you want to intimidate a fellow nation, hold up oranges with butter knives against them. That will show the international community that you mean business.

Or it will be misconstrued as a group of people doing a scurvy prevention campaign.

Yea, I think that's funnier if it's Stark who says it.

It almost looks as if Stark is trying to get a word in edge wise to just to point out the fact he's paid for everything.

Thor is confused about the entire concept of currency as well.
 

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