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Message: [QUOTE="LeGeNd-1, post: 13228336, member: 91639"] [USER=221133]@KinLM[/USER] 1. Yes the extreme rear toe in doesn't help, but at high speeds the predominant force is aerodynamic. Yes I know road cars are set with understeer bias because it's safer too. But the high end super/hypers in GT still understeers too much. If you have Assetto Corsa, just compare the 911 GT3 and the LaF to the ones in GT. Granted I've never driven these cars IRL, but from all the reviews and videos of people much more qualified than me, these cars just suck to drive in GT. 2. Vulcan 324 kg @ 100 mph, 1362 kg @ Vmax [URL]https://www2.astonmartin.com/vulcan/discover[/URL] P1 GTR 660 kg @ 150 mph [URL]https://www.topgear.com/car-news/speed-week-2015/speed-week-986bhp-mclaren-p1-gtr-thrashed-track[/URL] Zonda R 2000 kg @ 186 mph [URL]https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/pagani-zonda-r-revealed[/URL] So the Vulcan should have somewhere between the P1 GTR and Zonda R, but in the game IIRC it has the same as most road going hypers (probably 0/100 or 0/200). 3. Yes I'm aware of the F1's two fans. It was small though, and it only serves to maintain boundary layer attachment to the rear diffuser to provide a small increase in downforce. Not a full on sucker "fan car" like the Chaparral 2J/Brabham BT46/Red Bull X1. The rest of the McLaren F1 body is devoid of any aerodynamic features (apart from a small rear popup spoiler), and Gordon himself said many times it's made more as a hyper GT than a cornering machine (i.e. reasonable ride height, soft suspension -> so underbody downforce is minimal as well). But in the game IIRC it has 200/300 downforce which is a lot more than modern hypercars (which I agree doesn't have as much DF as race cars, but still more than portrayed in the game). From 14:30 he discussed it and compared it to the new T50's fan. [MEDIA=youtube]NT8PMXCMrsM[/MEDIA] 4. Interesting on the LaFerrari issue. I'm aware of the power figure not including hybrid power in the LMPs, but never thought of this problem afflicting road cars as well. It makes sense in this case 👍 I still say it needs more DF (esp front) in game though. In conclusion, I agree with you that most people overrate the downforce values of road going supercars, especially in comparison to full blown race cars. BUT, the road going supercars in GTS are still lacking - especially the front:rear balance is messed up. The Vulcan is just in the wrong class completely. It's just galling when the S-FR Concept Car, with such a tiny frontal area and probably zero wind tunnel testing, produces more downforce than a lot of the supercars. Disregarding the numbers in the settings screen (I agree there is more numbers "under the hood" that we aren't privy to - the Chaparral 2J in previous games are listed as 0/0 despite it obviously having tons of grip), my most important factor is always how the car [B]feels to drive[/B]. And it's really, really obvious comparing the various high end cars* in AC vs GT that something is not quite right in GT, even with only "second hand" reviews and impressions to compare to. I guess we'll never know for sure until we get every single of these cars in a wind tunnel and measure the vertical load, but for now, with the information available, my humble opinion is that GT have a lot of work to do in the aero department (along with tyres, suspension, weight transfer, FFB and track surface modelling). I mean will GTS be a better game with everything modelled correctly? Probably not. I'd even say fixes for the penalty system, more cars/tracks, better career mode etc are what the mass players will notice first. But it doesn't hurt to make the cars better to drive. As I always say, realistic =/= difficult. Realistic = intuitive ;) *If you have AC, I recommend testing the LaFerrari, 911 GT3, 458 Italia, Aventador SV, MP4-12C to know what I mean. Both games have all of those cars and all are vanilla cars (no mods) so you can compare like for like. [/QUOTE]

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