The Train Wreck Thread

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Danoff

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I wouldn't use word God to describe anything else than God in religious meaning, it only confuse people. I would also like to know what Kaku mean by 'universal intelligence'. Even if we "exist in a plan which is governed by rules that were created", the creator isn't God how is described by religious con artists.


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Surely we need to decide once and for all if there's first one before we can discuss this so-called second god?

That so-called second god is actually first one. :lol:
 
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I would also like to know what Kaku mean by 'universal intelligence'.
If it's suggested to be anything like "universal consciousness", I fear I may need a bucket.
 

Dotini

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Would people worship this second god? Would it even become a new religion (or does it have to be)?
Are there people who worship nature? If so, then yes, people worship this second god. Would it become a new religion? Yes, perhaps in a small degree or in isolated quarters. But it doesn't have to. It's primarily a philosophy or science for people who might continue to support atheism or traditional if non-violent religions. In short, "Nature" might a better word for it than "god".

Surely we need to decide once and for all if there's first one before we can discuss this so-called second god?

The first god is the personal god of the Abrahamic tradition, the angry and destructive God of the Bible. Credible scientists and philosophers agree that on subjective matters there can be no proof, no decisive or objective conclusion that such a being exists. The traditional God thread is filled with argument and debate over an insolvable problem.

The 2nd god is not a personal god. It comes from the tradition of philosophy and science, and is essentially the notion that the universe of space, time and matter is preceded by a consciousness which is the foundation of all, including the laws of physics. It is a notion of harmony, order, beauty and simplicity. Is adumbrations come in many flavors. Pantheism, panpsychism, animism, and hylozoism are my personal favorites, but aspects of Buddhism, Hindu and a few others are there. There is only a tiny scrap that comes from the Abrahamic direction.

My personal request is that this particular 2nd god of Einstein, etc, thread not include partisan arguments and condemnations so plentiful in the traditional God thread. So that it can do that, I respectfully ask that it stand separately.

To repeat, "god" is not the totally correct word, because it's a hot button with many loaded connotations. "Nature" may be a wiser choice.
 
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Danoff

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Are there people who worship nature? If so, then yes, people worship this second god. Would it become a new religion? Yes, perhaps in a small degree or in isolated quarters. But it doesn't have to. It's primarily a philosophy or science for people who might continue to support atheism or traditional if non-violent religions. In short, "Nature" might a better word for it than "god".



The first god is the personal god of the Abrahamic tradition, the angry and destructive God of the Bible. Credible scientists and philosophers agree that on subjective matters there can be no proof, no decisive or objective conclusion that such a being exists. The traditional God thread is filled with argument and debate over an insolvable problem.

The 2nd god is not a personal god. It comes from the tradition of philosophy and science, and is essentially the notion that the universe of space, time and matter was preceded by a consciousness which is the foundation of all, including the laws of physics. It is a notion of harmony, order, beauty and simplicity. Is adumbrations come in many flavors. Pantheism, panpsychism, animism, and hylozoism are my personal favorites, but aspects of Buddhism, Hindu and a few others are there. There is only a tiny scrap that comes from the Abrahamic direction.

My personal request is that this particular 2nd god of Einstein, etc, thread not include partisan arguments and condemnations so plentiful in the traditional God thread. So that it can do that, I respectfully ask that it stand separately.

To repeat, "god" is not the totally correct word, because it's a hot button with many loaded connotations. "Nature" may be a wiser choice.

Thomas Paine is a good source for what you're describing. You might want to change the thread title to Deism. This discussion fits in the god thread, but if you want to focus the discussion specifically on this type of God, I think the title "Deism" is a good option.
 

Dotini

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Thomas Paine is a good source for what you're describing. You might want to change the thread title to Deism. This discussion fits in the god thread, but if you want to focus the discussion specifically on this type of God, I think the title "Deism" is a good option.
okay by me.
 
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Danoff

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That's an idea, but I would prefer not to be involved in such of huge thread over essentially Abrahamic atrocities incurring the wrath of secularists.

Should be safe...

Deism - belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.
 

Danoff

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Deism has nothing whatever to do with it. Consciousness continually interacts and intervenes all the time in every way everywhere in the universe. Even electrons are conscious! Consciousness is the stuff, the matrix, the foundation that underlies time, space and matter. Our universe cannot exist without it. According to this thread.



I see... perhaps calling it "Universal Consciousness" or "Panpyschism" or "Pantheism" then.
 

Joey D

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I find Kaku's belief in a supernatural force to be pretty similar to what I believe. I think there is something that dictates the rules on the universe that's outside the realm of existence that we know. What that is exactly, I have no idea, but no matter how much I think about it, the universe doesn't seem like something that happens by chance.

Religion though? Ya, religion can get bent.

But what's the meaning of this thread?

Something, something, post-modernism...something, something, aliens.
 

Dotini

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I find Kaku's belief in a supernatural force to be pretty similar to what I believe. I think there is something that dictates the rules on the universe that's outside the realm of existence that we know. What that is exactly, I have no idea, but no matter how much I think about it, the universe doesn't seem like something that happens by chance.
IMHO, this is a great and profound insight, and it has a number of interesting and crucially important implications. We should address those. But we can stipulate there is no "supernatural" force (really energy) because the math of quantum mechanics allows for it.
Religion though? Ya, religion can get bent.
That's precisely why I created this thread. Here, we can leave that behind.

Something, something, post-modernism...something, something, aliens.
I'm being badly misunderstood on both these issues.

I am an opponent of postmodernism. Postmodernism involves separate realities depending upon a person's beliefs and viewpoint. Acceptance of universal consciousness involves uniting everything in the universe including mankind in harmony, order and beauty.

I am an opponent of the ET hypothesis. In universal consciousness and perennial philosophy, it's true aliens are not entirely ruled out. Indeed Michio Kaku accepts that may explain the UFO phenomena. However, in many interpretations including mine, aliens or extraterrestrial biological entities are not required to exist, be real or material. They are not required to explain the UFO or other paranormal phenomena. They are merely agents of consciousness; only symbols.

Thank you for your wonderfully thoughtful contribution!
 
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Dotini

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So is the "first God" purely a man-made creation (according to this theory)?
Yes, that's the fierce one who divides, conquers and enslaves us with fear, punishment and compulsion. The 2nd god is the source of the consciousness that links us all together, frees us from the first one, and enables us to have a much better time and experience on Earth.

Check out this trippy interview having to do with consciousness and investigating higher reality. And thanks for your post.

 

Rallywagon

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That was a pretty interesting interview. I think this guy has the wrong idea of what atheism is though. Atheism is a lack of a belief in gods. It's not anti spirituality. It doesnt negate the idea of some sort of interconnectedness or perhaps interdimensionality(sp).
I do find the continuity of the entities fascinating. I mean, it likely is just the effects of the drug on the frontal lobe, but, at the same time, I find the notion that in some way it might make us aware of a dimension we may not normally be aware of. Allow us to commune with entities that are equally unaware of our dimension(s). If these entities live outside of them realm of what we know as time and space, than to us, they could very well appear god like when we do happen upon their "plane of existence."
 

opelgt1969

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But but but what about Eric Claption I've often heard of him as GOD of the guitar, so would he be the second or third God? Which came second I think Eric wins!
 

UKMikey

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J. J. Caile > Eric Claption. Change my mind.
Jimmy Hendricks for the win.

Now that we are a pantheistic society again I was kind of thinking Anoia from the Terry Pratchett novels would be suited to a modern society. She's the goddess of awkwardly-shaped kitchen implements getting stuck and preventing drawers from opening. People offer oaths to her every day.
 
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Eric Claption's guitar-like contraptions?

On a sad, co-incidental side note, Ginger Baker has died.

I was kind of thinking Anoia from the Terry Pratchett novels would be suited to a modern society. She's the goddess of awkwardly-shaped kitchen implements getting stuck and preventing drawers from opening. People offer oaths to her every day.

Does Pratchett have a deity for the drawer where the old string, left-over hinges, tape measure, superglue, half-a-roll-of-sellotape and other miscellaneous odds and sods are kept?
 

UKMikey

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On a sad, co-incidental side note, Ginger Baker has died.
I had no idea. RIP. I was just talking with some mates last night about what a great drummer he was.



Does Pratchett have a deity for the drawer where the old string, left-over hinges, tape measure, superglue, half-a-roll-of-sellotape and other miscellaneous odds and sods are kept?
Anoia is only an Assistant Patron Goddess by rank so I imagine she has peers who aren't mentioned in the books which cover "dad drawers" full of left over keys, spare nuts and bolts etc.
 
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