Potato...

[fastone371]

Players have long had questions about physics.
That is, what is the basis and basis of player comments?
And what criteria and basis are used to judge the physical authenticity of the game?

Not only that, but also the game developers who claim to have the most authentic physics engine,
The most simulated real driving experience, all holding such questions,
Who the hell is it? On what basis? How do I verify the true extent of game engine simulation?

Stop arguing, because there's no standard for comparison,
Unless you have real driving experience with the same vehicle used in the game,
otherwise it's all just do it out of the evaluation according to personal preferences.

The thing you are missing is that some of us do have real driving experience in very high performance machinery. One also needn't drive the exact cars we see in the game to draw the conclusion that PD has some very glaring physics faults. For the most part the cars of similar drivetrain layouts will drive pretty similar to each other unless they have very quirky weight bias. Sure, the NSX will drive differently than the 330P4 but we are also talking about a 30 year gap in technology minimum. The biggest difference would be the tires, does the 330P4 have era correct tires on it or current spec tires? I dont know if PD makes that info available to us which makes it difficult to compare these cars in real life even if someone drove both of them. The bottom line is that thru the different physics models it was pretty easy to find some very unrealistic aspects of the cars in both the handling and the speed at which the cars could be lapped while using some rather unrealistic input methods. It's hard to call a game a "real driving simulator" with these issues and even though I have not tried any of the other driving games on PS4 yet it doesnt surprise me that PD may be far behind some other studios in handling physics.

 

[Bobinho]

My tuppence worth: the update has made the driving dull. Very dull. Like there's no jeopardy involved in throwing a car around at 150mph. That applies to road and proper cars.

If this is how the game is supposed to be then PD may as well remove TC, its just not needed anymore.

Wake me up when PD remember this is a racing game not Granny's Shopping Run simulator.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Well real cars aren't driven with controllers. I think Kunos made a correct decision to optimise the controls for wheels. This is also the reason why I think GT will never reach true sim status...

"True sim" is a meaningless measurement. As others have said, pro drivers will utilize whichever sim best serves their needs for their next real world race. If you want to practice your driving line for Le Man you grab GTSport and not iRacing because Sport has the most current scan of the track. No sim will match a driver's real world car anyways so all a game has to be, in order to be a useful sim, is provide realistic track reference points and a serviceable physics engine that isn't too far from reality.

The obsessive excessive standards that people place on the label of "driving simulator" is silly and not a conversation that real drivers seem to care about.

 

[IncredibleMind]

The thing you are missing is that some of us do have real driving experience in very high performance machinery. One also needn't drive the exact cars we see in the game to draw the conclusion that PD has some very glaring physics faults. For the most part the cars of similar drivetrain layouts will drive pretty similar to each other unless they have very quirky weight bias. Sure, the NSX will drive differently than the 330P4 but we are also talking about a 30 year gap in technology minimum. The biggest difference would be the tires, does the 330P4 have era correct tires on it or current spec tires? I dont know if PD makes that info available to us which makes it difficult to compare these cars in real life even if someone drove both of them. The bottom line is that thru the different physics models it was pretty easy to find some very unrealistic aspects of the cars in both the handling and the speed at which the cars could be lapped while using some rather unrealistic input methods. It's hard to call a game a "real driving simulator" with these issues and even though I have not tried any of the other driving games on PS4 yet it doesnt surprise me that PD may be far behind some other studios in handling physics.

Yes!

I think what many don’t understand about what we’re doing by COMPLAINING is trying to create a path where GT (7?) becomes the GREATEST racer to date.

PD has all of the components in place but some severely crippling issues are preventing it from already being the GREATEST.

They think we’re arguing for the sake of it! NO.

We’re arguing to make this a better title for all of us. If PD made a few different design choices similar to what Kunos did with AC we’d all be having the time of our lives in spite of even lesser physics.

Now David Perilli met Kaz recently. Unfortunately, just like I would have been....he got star struck and likely didn’t voice his concerns so it’s important that we act as the voices in the wild and hope someone from PD hears us.

As of now GTS is BUSTED. It’s an extremely flawed and broken machine that could be fixed with a few different design choices. If anyone doubts me....go on YouTube and look at all of the wrecked super cars. There’s a reason this happens...those cars ARE NOT easy to accelerate from low speeds and accelerate the way the cars in GT are.

 

[IncredibleMind]

"True sim" is a meaningless measurement. As others have said, pro drivers will utilize whichever sim best serves their needs for their next real world race. If you want to practice your driving line for Le Man you grab GTSport and not iRacing because Sport has the most current scan of the track. No sim will match a driver's real world car anyways so all a game has to be, in order to be a useful sim, is provide realistic track reference points and a serviceable physics engine that isn't too far from reality.

The obsessive excessive standards that people place on the label of "driving simulator" is silly and not a conversation that real drivers seem to care about.

You make strong points my friend. However, keep in mind that AC does indeed nail those realistic handling aspects that GT somehow misses. Why can’t we have the best of both worlds? Proper handling/sense of speed AND proper track modeling.

Next gen, if PD fixes the things I’ve detailed and adds a proper single player I can assure you people will be doing backflips over this game.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Sorry to hear this...I hope you get to experience a non-sterilized version of GT with a controller one day. You won’t be disappointed if they do it correctly.

Sadly, the game will always feel compromised on a controller. There's no way to simulate the movement of a wheel with a stick.

 

[Groundfish]

You make strong points my friend. However, keep in mind that AC does indeed nail those realistic handling aspects that GT somehow misses. Why can’t we have the best of both worlds? Proper handling/sense of speed AND proper track modeling.

Next gen, if PD fixes the things I’ve detailed and adds a proper single player I can assure you people will be doing backflips over this game.

If you think AC has things nailed, that is what it is.
I haven’t played the newer version so no comment on it but the older version was good for its time, but now it’s dated and it’s flaws and deficiencies stand out much more against something like GT Sport.
But, clearly you have an axe to grind and will continue to do so.
I call it Project Mayhem when keyboard warriors like yourself are so addicted to trying to rile people up.

 

[IncredibleMind]

If you think AC has things nailed, that is what it is.
I haven’t played the newer version so no comment on it but the older version was good for its time, but now it’s dated and it’s flaws and deficiencies stand out much more against something like GT Sport.
But, clearly you have an axe to grind and will continue to do so.
I call it Project Mayhem when keyboard warriors like yourself are so addicted to trying to rile people up.

Oh really? I have an axe to grind by trying to add a dialogue that I think will IMPROVE the game? People like you are disgusting and I’ll tell you why.

You have completely failed to challenge anything I’ve said. This is the same level of fanboyism and ignorance that was displayed when people complained about the sounds in GT. If no one ever said anything the game doesn’t get improved.

 

[dabz343]

Yes!

I think what many don’t understand about what we’re doing by COMPLAINING is trying to create a path where GT (7?) becomes the GREATEST racer to date.

Your enthusiasm is contagious and I share your reason for being vocal (others too, even if they don't share my views on GTS' features).

But, clearly you have an axe to grind and will continue to do so.

This on the other hand sound like trolling to me, baiting people to argue...sad

 

[IncredibleMind]

Sadly, the game will always feel compromised on a controller. There's no way to simulate the movement of a wheel with a stick.

It can never be perfect but believe me, it can be far better than what we are getting. I can assure you that you can get improvements in inputs based on more realistic acceleration, braking and more realistic grip through a controller.

Some guy said it best earlier when he said that at a minimum they should have varying levels of realism as options.

 

[Groundfish]

Oh really? I have an axe to grind by trying to add a dialogue that I think will IMPROVE the game? People like you are disgusting and I’ll tell you why.

You have completely failed to challenge anything I’ve said. This is the same level of fanboyism and ignorance that was displayed when people complained about the sounds in GT. If no one ever said anything the game doesn’t get improved.

Why would it be necessary to challenge nonsense?
It’s obvious that it would be futile to attempt to reason with this ridiculous anti GT tirade.
Also, had you bothered to read any of this thread before posting you might have become aware that many great points have been made.
Repeating the same thing again and again and expecting a different result is one persons definition of insanity.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Your enthusiasm is contagious and I share your reason for being vocal (others too, even if they don't share my views on GTS's features).





This on the other hand sound like trolling to me, baiting people to argue...sad

Thank you my friend. Just imagine this.... GT Sport’s interface, graphics and car count combined with AC’s sense of speed and at least 75% of its physics.

It will literally knock these other games out of the market. I can assure everyone here I’m not attacking GT because I have an axe to grind aside from wanting it to reach it’s potential.

 

[dabz343]

Why would it be necessary to challenge nonsense?

Exactly, oh the irony!

 

[praiano63]

I suspect that they build a new physic around this car to promote the Supra GT cup , perhaps toyota wasn't happy at all with the few participation due to the car behaviors.

It seems that Latkovski after qualif confirm my first thought about the update & supra connection.

 

[Pfei]

It seems that Latkovski after qualif confirm my first thought about the update & supra connection.

What did he say?

 

[praiano63]

What did he say?

That" this year (this time) with the supra you can really put your foot down when you want to , it control realy nice in the corners , it has a little weight shifting when you brake but nothing that practice doesn't solve "

 

[Pfei]

That" this year (this time) with the supra you can really put your foot down when you want to , it control realy nice in the corners , it has a little weight shifting when you brake but nothing that practice doesn't solve "

Thanks.

However, that's not evidence of a Toyota conspiracy to change the entire game just to modify the dynamic model of a single road car. If it's true then I guess we can hope things get back to "normal" some day.

Just to clarify, as someone who only runs Manufacturer, I dislike the new physics. To the point that I have abandoned the Manufacturer series altogether. I've been sim racing since the mid-nineties and have loads of road and track experience in various cars with different drivetrains. I don't need 100% pure simulation to enjoy racing games, but what I do need (personally) is for the cars to be intuitive to drive. For example: I do "x" and the car responds with "y". With these new physics I feel that I do "x" but the car responds with "z". I refuse to re-program my mind and muscles to accomodate "z". EDIT: I am specifically referring to the Gr. 3 and 4 cars here.

The road cars do feel better than before, though.

I know no-one cares if I'm playing the game or not. I just feel it was time to leave my $0.02 on the subject in case PD is reading this. Whether we agree, disagree or argue to eternity, everyone's point of view here is valid for a developer to gauge how their playerbase reacts to how they code their game.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Thanks.

However, that's not evidence of a Toyota conspiracy to change the entire game just to modify the dynamic model of a single road car. If it's true then I guess we can hope things get back to "normal" some day.

Just to clarify, as someone who only runs Manufacturer, I dislike the new physics. To the point that I have abandoned the Manufacturer series altogether. I've been sim racing since the mid-nineties and have loads of road and track experience in various cars with different drivetrains. I don't need 100% pure simulation to enjoy racing games, but what I do need (personally) is for the cars to be intuitive to drive. For example: I do "x" and the car responds with "y". With these new physics I feel that I do "x" but the car responds with "z". I refuse to re-program my mind and muscles to accomodate "z". EDIT: I am specifically referring to the Gr. 3 and 4 cars here.

The road cars do feel better than before, though.

I know no-one cares if I'm playing the game or not. I just feel it was time to leave my $0.02 on the subject in case PD is reading this. Whether we agree, disagree or argue to eternity, everyone's point of view here is valid for a developer to gauge how their playerbase reacts to how they code their game.

This is very intelligent thinking. I think the people who think we are simply complaining for the sake of complaining are missing the bigger picture.

I personally look at GTS as an experimental project/stop gap measure before they unveil the real project: GT7. This is the time to give them as much critical feedback as possible. If none of us speak out they may not know what to focus on.

There IS a chance they are already aware of the flaws we speak of and are simply adding these features in incrementally but we should still act as a voice just in case this isn’t true.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I can't lie. All of that oversteer just makes me miss the 1.38 physics.

 

[photonmonkey]

road cars do feel better than before, though.

Thank you, at least some sense in the madness! People need to start being more specific than just 'we need to go back to 1.38 as I miss the oversteer'

Some people are just into GR3 race cars some are into road cars, horses for courses. I am still loving the update as I find GR3 cars tedious which is what I found in AC as well so I don't see a great difference.

So my compromise, 1.38 physics for the Race cars and 1.39 for the road cars.....enjoy

Its Just personal preference and it does annoy me that a few individuals feel like their opinion should be the only one that matters!

PD are fielding a game to a wide audience and are trying to cater for all. Good grief the fact you cannot adjust tyre pressures should speak volumes about the tyre model they are using. People need to be realistic about what this title is about. It's not a full on sim and I dont think it ever will be whilst Kaz is at the helm and it's his baby!

I want this title to look like the dogs proverbials and have the most realistic physics but I just don't think that will happen, there is always a trade off.

Maybe on next gen we will see something different.

 

[MortosDer]

Yes!

I think what many don’t understand about what we’re doing by COMPLAINING is trying to create a path where GT (7?) becomes the GREATEST racer to date.

PD has all of the components in place but some severely crippling issues are preventing it from already being the GREATEST.

They think we’re arguing for the sake of it! NO.

We’re arguing to make this a better title for all of us. If PD made a few different design choices similar to what Kunos did with AC we’d all be having the time of our lives in spite of even lesser physics.

Now David Perilli met Kaz recently. Unfortunately, just like I would have been....he got star struck and likely didn’t voice his concerns so it’s important that we act as the voices in the wild and hope someone from PD hears us.

As of now GTS is BUSTED. It’s an extremely flawed and broken machine that could be fixed with a few different design choices. If anyone doubts me....go on YouTube and look at all of the wrecked super cars. There’s a reason this happens...those cars ARE NOT easy to accelerate from low speeds and accelerate the way the cars in GT are.

I really don't like people I don't know telling they know what's best for me (or everyone, in this case LMFAO) or how much I'd enjoy something.

I think the game is better since the update. I read what you write and you're trying to make the game worse for me. No, you don't speak for everyone.

 

[Nielsen]

Sadly, the game will always feel compromised on a controller. There's no way to simulate the movement of a wheel with a stick.

That's why the DS4 comes with a motion sensor.

 

[Shingo_civic]

I don't like very much the new physics to be honest,the understeer is to exaggerated in my opinion. I hope that some participants at the Nurburgring GT World Tour will suggest to PD to bring back the pre update physics

 

[IncredibleMind]

I really don't like people I don't know telling they know what's best for me (or everyone, in this case LMFAO) or how much I'd enjoy something.

I think the game is better since the update. I read what you write and you're trying to make the game worse for me. No, you don't speak for everyone.

Good for you. Hopefully PD will have options available for those who don’t think the game is perfect in its current state as well. Maybe they can have an option where they have physics from update 1.39 for people just like you.

 

[FPV MIC]

Good for you. Hopefully PD will have options available for those who don’t think the game is perfect in its current state as well. Maybe they can have an option where they have physics from update 1.39 for people just like you.

Why would they need an option for 1.39 physics when that's what we have . Maybe they could have 1.38 physics as an option for people just like you .

BTW neither is perfect. Nothing ever is, or will ever be to everyone .

 

[IncredibleMind]

Why would they need an option for 1.39 physics when that's what we have . Maybe they could have 1.38 physics as an option for people just like you .

BTW neither is perfect. Nothing ever is, or will ever be to everyone .

Its obvious to anyone not in troll mode that the statement is referring to future iterations of GTS. I have made no statement about preferring any version of GT’s past or current physics. I’m hoping they rehab the entire physics engine.

 

[VBR]

So my compromise, 1.38 physics for the Race cars and 1.39 for the road cars...

This. 👍

...it does annoy me that a few individuals feel like their opinion should be the only one that matters!

Definitely this. As I said back in post 574 on June 2nd;

Just to remind everyone that the question in the poll is, "How do you feel about the physics in the 1.39 update?" not, 'do you think they're more realistic' or whatever. Feelings are subjective, & thus differ. It's okay for people to feel differently about the physics, & there's absolutely nothing wrong with having an opinion that differs from someone else. Whether we personally like them or not has nothing to do with whether they're more realistic or not, that's a whole 'nother issue. Some of us are gamers, some are sim-racers, some are casual players, some are hardcore, some are pad users & some are wheel users. And, most of us are a mix of some or all of those things, & more besides...

 

[LeGeNd-1]

"True sim" is a meaningless measurement. As others have said, pro drivers will utilize whichever sim best serves their needs for their next real world race. If you want to practice your driving line for Le Man you grab GTSport and not iRacing because Sport has the most current scan of the track. No sim will match a driver's real world car anyways so all a game has to be, in order to be a useful sim, is provide realistic track reference points and a serviceable physics engine that isn't too far from reality.

The obsessive excessive standards that people place on the label of "driving simulator" is silly and not a conversation that real drivers seem to care about.

Pro drivers don't need full accuracy in sims because they are already doing it for real. All they need is just to learn the track to speed up the learning process once they get to the actual place. Most of the time it's the team that needs accurate sims to test new parts on their cars. Of course there are also drivers who sim race regularly for fun like Lando Norris or Max Verstappen, but that's a whole different kettle of fish. So yes, arguing which sim is best isn't really important if you are a real race driver. But for the rest of us who don't race IRL, we want to get as close as possible, and the discussion has merit.

I don't know when PD last laser scanned La Sarthe, but a game needs more than just perfect tracks to be accurate. In that respect, GTS has a lot to learn from other PC sims. There's a reason real race teams who do simulator work use their own proprietary software, or use some modified version of rF/iRacing/AC. No one uses GT unless it's for marketing purposes.

I'm not asking GT to be like AC either. I genuinely quite like the balance of reality vs accessibility that PD has managed. But going back and forth on the physics, with the end result not being more real nor intuitive, is a wrong and confused move in my opinion.

Basically, ask yourself this: what would PD have lost, if they haven't changed the physics in the latest update?

 

[FPV MIC]

Its obvious to anyone not in troll mode that the statement is referring to future iterations of GTS. I have made no statement about preferring any version of GT’s past or current physics. I’m hoping they rehab the entire physics engine.

No, not in troll mode, just stating what could be done like you've just said....

You seem to want the game designed just for yourself, and want others to fall in line with your direction, but if it's done right for you then chances are it's screwed for someone else. All that you've suggested below barely touches on physics.... except for saying it could be improved.

On a related note, I bought Assetto Corsa the PS4 version today as it was only $29.99. I haven’t delved into it on the level I have GT Sport but a quick assessment/comparison.

1. Nowhere near the amount of content as GT Sport. However this isn’t necessarily a bad thing as I prefer quality over quantity.

2. Everything being spoken upon about the sensation of g-force is handled with EXTREME properness by AC. At the end of the day PD clearly has no idea what they are doing in this department and they severely need some outside help/influence, even WORSE than they did with engine sounds.

a. The cockpit/screen does indeed shift backwards and forward unlike the stiff/static mechanic in GT. This would have been written off as an arcade mechanic but it is necessary for the sensation of speed.

b. Even the car/cockpit itself rattles once you reach certain speeds. Once you experience how naturally applied it is in AC you won’t be able to help but have extreme disgust for whoever is making these design choices at PD. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?

c. It is arguable that the graphics IN MOTION are better in AC than even GT Sport for the above mentioned reasons more than anything. If PD has this corrected it would smoke AC...in fact I think it would smoke ACC even on a high powered rig as well.

3. The physics are indeed better in ACC, however these are all subtleties that PD can correct imo.

4. The cockpit view adjustments in AC are EXACTLY what I fantasized being in GT Sport.

My ultimate assessment is that PD has one of the slickest interfaces and some of the prettiest graphics but it is all for nothing until they fix the game’s issues.

It’s crazy that I was complaining about the road surfaces only.

Strangely enough that MAY OR MAY NOT be an issue but it takes an extreme backseat to their impractical decision to keep the car almost completely rattle/vibration free no matter the speeds or inertia acting upon the car. I say that because the track I drove on in AC felt relatively flat but I never experienced the break in immersion that I did with GT Sport due to it’s extreme lifelessness. My strong guess is that PD actually has the track surfacing correct but due to their stiff views it’s not conveyed properly.

PD fix this stuff please. You could literally live up to your tag if these things are corrected. None of the things I’ve mentioned are even overly complicated, but they are simple essentials imo. But who am I? I admit to never racing a day in my life.

So how will any of this fix the physics? I've had AC since release and like others have mentioned the car handling isn't that different to GTS (with a wheel). Most of the rest is design choices so it won't really change anything. If we're going to talk design choices a proper bonnet view would be high on my list of improvements. As has been mentioned before, it's all down to personal preferences.

If you really want to add immersion to any sim title add tactile to your rig/chair, as I've done, and you'll feel whole new world of road feel in all games. Maybe that's what you're missing?


And please lay of the troll and fanboyism references.... and calling people disgusting is not helping you're cause either.

 

[Groundfish]

No one wants real physics simulation in a video game.
Change tires in the pits and lug nuts not tight?
Ruined race. It happens.
Oil leaked onto track by car ahead? Brake failure? Engine overheating problems depending on what fuel map? Tranny failure...diff trouble....etc etc etc
Unexplained breakdowns...
I can’t think of anyone that wants mechanical failure simulated. No one wants to enter a race and not be able to make the grid because the car won’t even run.
No one wants to get defective parts or tires. Adding these aspects isn’t fun. Irl it’s a pain to have to fight all this stuff just to be able to get to run a few laps. Video games are great. You pay for the game and get the fun part without all the hassle and expense.

You don’t want EVERYTHING about real racing simulated. That’s what makes these games fun.