Potato...
- Thread starter VBR
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LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
Did a quick run with 458 Gr.3 at Sardegna road course last night, and the entry lift off oversteer is toned down a lot. On power exiting the corner is still very stable though, almost like 4WD. So it seems they may have tinkered with some numbers again without telling us. Oh PD, I don't know what to do anymore...
- 7,755
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
That was one of my favourite cars from GT5 Prologue all the way through to GT6, & the reason was because of the way the thing oversteered/rotated. It was mad as a box of frogs to drive untuned & I loved it for that! I haven't driven it in GT Sport yet, but if what you're saying is true...
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- 963
- United Kingdom
What I noticed while running in Daily Race C with all 3 2015 LMP1 cars and I'm not sure if it's necessarily physics related:
All 3 cars suffer from a little more understeer than usual and are a touch nervous whilst trail-braking at low speed (unless I've got my setting completely wrong).
The hierarchy between the three is a bit wonky compared to what was the case in real life from the race which they all carry specs from:
All 3 cars suffer from a little more understeer than usual and are a touch nervous whilst trail-braking at low speed (unless I've got my setting completely wrong).
The hierarchy between the three is a bit wonky compared to what was the case in real life from the race which they all carry specs from:
- In-game the R18 has the better straight-line of the three, but at Bahrain it was level with Porsche while being down on Toyota (they were effectively running their Le Mans spec with more wing which is why they were nowhere in this race), the Toyota should be the one with the best straight-line.
- Weirdly the Porsche seems to have the highest downforce, which is pretty much incorrect because of the three, the Audi was the most aggressive on the downforce.
- 9,333
- Denmark
While physics seem to be the same as in version 1.39, I think something changed for the better in version 1.40. It no longer feels almost unplayable to me like it did in the previous version. Controlling the cars simply feels better now.
Overall I'm not entirely sold on all aspects of the changes introduced in version 1.39, but rear-wheel driven slides feel more authentic now. Now you can actually hold the slides for a bit, and regaining control requires a little more finesse. 👍
The revised physics still seem need to a little fine-tuning on front / back weight transfer under throttle. The effect feels a little too pronounced in some cars.
The Clio does exhibit both power-induced and lift-off oversteer. Softer tire compounds may tame it somewhat, but on Sports Hard tires and below it can be a riot when you want it to be.
Overall I'm not entirely sold on all aspects of the changes introduced in version 1.39, but rear-wheel driven slides feel more authentic now. Now you can actually hold the slides for a bit, and regaining control requires a little more finesse. 👍
The revised physics still seem need to a little fine-tuning on front / back weight transfer under throttle. The effect feels a little too pronounced in some cars.
That was one of my favourite cars from GT5 Prologue all the way through to GT6, & the reason was because of the way the thing oversteered/rotated. It was mad as a box of frogs to drive untuned & I loved it for that! I haven't driven it in GT Sport yet, but if what you're saying is true...
The Clio does exhibit both power-induced and lift-off oversteer. Softer tire compounds may tame it somewhat, but on Sports Hard tires and below it can be a riot when you want it to be.
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- 9,333
- Denmark
What I said is based on testing the car around Brand Hatch. The hairpin at turn 2 is great for kicking out its rear with just the throttle. Higher speed corners and bends may require a little more effort by wiggling the steering wheel to the point where the mid-mounted engine upsets the balance, and from there the throttle takes over with more than enough power to hold it sideways for a while.
- 2,384
- United Kingdom
- Hasnain282
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
I've used the Audi R18 for most of the circuit Gr.1 races and it keeps getting more and more detailed patch after patch.
When it started out it was a very RWD pattern car with what felt like all the power, electric or petrol coming from the back.
Thing is GT Sport calls it an MR car with 525hp from diesel.
How in real life its a 4wd car... in the various Race Car Engineering write ups there's clearly a front driveshaft and GT Sport end has front diff settings so how is it MR?
Maybe since its only electric front power GT SPort doesnt count it as 4wd?
Be that as it may, this car changes every patch.
This car used to powerslide like an RWD car but now you can clearly feel the front end scrabbling for traction out of corners.
Its still a winner to me, I love the way it drives now.
When it started out it was a very RWD pattern car with what felt like all the power, electric or petrol coming from the back.
Thing is GT Sport calls it an MR car with 525hp from diesel.
How in real life its a 4wd car... in the various Race Car Engineering write ups there's clearly a front driveshaft and GT Sport end has front diff settings so how is it MR?
Maybe since its only electric front power GT SPort doesnt count it as 4wd?
Be that as it may, this car changes every patch.
This car used to powerslide like an RWD car but now you can clearly feel the front end scrabbling for traction out of corners.
Its still a winner to me, I love the way it drives now.
- 963
- United Kingdom
For me the physics is completely wrong for the R18, there's not enough downforce (it was regarded as having the most downforce in LMP1 at the time) and the Porsche 919 feels to have more downforce which is incorrect in comparison to real-world.
Also, it behaves like it's in the 8 megajoule class of hybrid power and accelerates more than the Toyota, this again is incorrect as Audi were down on hybrid power: it was in the 6 megajoule class while Porsche and Toyota were in the 8 megajoule class.
Having been trackside and seen the car in person, I can also tell you that the body language of the car through the corners is also completely wrong.
IncredibleMind
(Banned)
- 167
Now we're getting somewhere 👍.
The tyres are indeed part of the physics model and something PD has never done particularly well, but it's not that that's causing the issue now, it's the lack of modelling the way torque affects the car under hard acceleration imo, and something that was previously modelled in an earlier version (sorry, I can't remember which one). Remember before the last two updates we could barely take off from standstill without huge amounts of wheel spin and the only solution was traction control. This was seriously wrong and something I feel they're going the right direction with, but it needs the torque effects to add that bit of danger that's needed, the bit that makes you “fly off a cliff”, and the bit that can easily be controlled with decent throttle modulation. I like the way that I can decide whether or not to break traction around a corner now, as in real life, something that couldn't be done very well at all before, and it is something that's done well in AC. IMO though they are still heading the right direction, and I do really wonder if this last update was to prepare for the (hopefully) soon to be added rain and wet conditions.
You're right, camera effects aren't physics related 👍.... and most of those people are showing off in mostly very grip limited circumstances (check some of the bitumen quality, white lines and the like), probably on cold tyres, and many other things that aren't really a factor on a race track.... and the standing start failures, they're mostly torque related
.
Massive respect for this response.
I only started replaying GTS at 1.39 so I have no reference for what previous models were like.
I purchased early on and have no shame in admitting that I was seriously turned off by GTS’ lack of visceral feel. It’s still my only issue with the game as I’ve been forced to use the bumper cam to get the sense of speed that I like.
However, since I’ve spent much more time in GTS I have really, truly grown to appreciate the approach they have to physics.
I agree with an earlier poster that the physics model only needs to be only but so real to get benefit of it translating to real racing.
There’s a point where going overboard can hit the point of diminishing returns and I think GTS is close to the sweet spot.
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- 1,762
- Finland
- HI-tauer
So.. i think i have a lead to understanding physics after 1.39.
I was doing a lot of circuit experience events past few days, and something just caught my eye in one of the tests.
"Come easy off the brakes to prevent understeer.."
Tried it - some very light and long trail braking until power on and even beyond. Was able to steady the car and prevent understeer quite well.
👍
That said - begun my night today with some rallycross in dirt rally 2.0. Going to GTS after that the ffb is just dead.. and im on t-gt - build FOR gts.
it seems ffb is even worst than way back. I cant feel too much of countersteer force anymore, just rattle or overwhelming centering force depending on ffb settings. 
I was doing a lot of circuit experience events past few days, and something just caught my eye in one of the tests.
"Come easy off the brakes to prevent understeer.."
Tried it - some very light and long trail braking until power on and even beyond. Was able to steady the car and prevent understeer quite well.
👍That said - begun my night today with some rallycross in dirt rally 2.0. Going to GTS after that the ffb is just dead.. and im on t-gt - build FOR gts.
it seems ffb is even worst than way back. I cant feel too much of countersteer force anymore, just rattle or overwhelming centering force depending on ffb settings.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
This has been puzzling me too. From what I know the Toyota and Porsche also only sends power to the rear and only becomes 4WD with hybrid boost. The Audi is the same so why does the Toyota/Porsche gets labelled as 4WD and Audi as MR? From driving them, the Audi does have a lot more power oversteer tendencies than the other two, which I assume is because its a 6MJ class and the front axle can still get overpowered by the rear under heavy accel from low speed (when the downforce isn't working fully yet).
Also all 3 cars have slightly different hybrid deployment profiles. Porsche is most aggressive but after it stops deploying it harvests energy back to the battery continuously, which causes a slight power loss on the straights but you can be sure the battery is always full. Audi has longest deployment time and only harvests during braking, so it's the worst at keeping its batteries topped up. Toyota is in the middle, balanced deployment profile and it recharges on upshifts and coasting (off throttle, zero braking). I imagine in real life they have several different modes to choose from. In Assetto Corsa you can choose how aggressive you want regen and deployment to be, and you also have manual override to give max boost for overtakes if needed. Unfortunately it only has the 919 and TS040. There are mods for TS050 and R18 but who knows how accurate they are.
- 963
- United Kingdom
Across the board the R18 seems to be the one which everyone is getting wrong, it should really be listed as an AWD if that's what they've done with the Toyota and Porsche. Also, one thing I think they might have gotten wrong is the lift & coast regen, they were using this A LOT in 2016 and you can hear it working away on the onboards from that season.
Also, another note, in 2016 the Audi was the only car able to take the right-hander before Indianapolis flatout.
LeGeNd-1
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They could be running higher downforce values than the stock setup in GTS. Though that also begs the question, does the cars in GTS have Le Mans spec aero or high DF spec?
- 762
- Las Vegas, NV
- K_E_87th
Is it just me, or is the X2019 Competition nearly impossible to drive? I have to set my wheel's settings to 1/1 Sensitivity/Torque to even get a good idea of the steering lock, and even then I'm having to steer all the way past 90 degrees in both directions when taking corners at Autopolis for example, which doesn't seem right for an open-wheel car. It also has much more wheelspin than I expected for a car with the same bodystyle as the X2014 Standard, so I was expecting similar performance only to get totally thrown off.
Maybe it's just me, but I am have a handful of trouble driving this car even compared to the other open-wheel monster machines like the X2014 Standard and even the F-1500T.
Maybe it's just me, but I am have a handful of trouble driving this car even compared to the other open-wheel monster machines like the X2014 Standard and even the F-1500T.
- 15,071
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
As others have said, this car has a lot less downforce than the X2014. If you look at the bodystyle and expect to enter corners at the same speed just because both cars look the same, you won't make it. Just for context some LMPs at max downforce has even more grip than the X2019 at default.
My tips, go to the tuning section and use Prairano's tune. Use TC and a lower fuel map if you have to (FM2 loses little speed but makes things a bit more manageable). BB max to front because this car chews rear tyres. I have my wheel settings at torque 2, sensitivity 10, steering sensitivity -2 (despite what the explanation says, it does help the steering to be less twitchy even for wheels). The only time you need to steer past 90 degree at Autopolis is the hairpin. Everywhere else, if you need more lock then you're going too fast and applying more steering is just going to worsen the understeer. Learn to readjust your driving to the car's limits and you'll be fine.
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
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I was surprised how 'difficult' the x2019 was to drive initially... you do need to get used to it... I suggest NOT the Autopolis 30 lapper... that's just jumping in the deep end.
But try just doing happy laps on an easy track, say St. Croix Alsace etc.
I dont think the lack of downforce is that big a deal... its sort of something like the SF19 as far as cornering goes. There's a lot of initial wheelspin so use TCS1... no fuss there.
Once you get used to it you'll lament the relatively lazy lack of midrange and top end.
If you got your head around the W08 and x2014 you'll be fine.
But try just doing happy laps on an easy track, say St. Croix Alsace etc.
I dont think the lack of downforce is that big a deal... its sort of something like the SF19 as far as cornering goes. There's a lot of initial wheelspin so use TCS1... no fuss there.
Once you get used to it you'll lament the relatively lazy lack of midrange and top end.
If you got your head around the W08 and x2014 you'll be fine.
- 77
- Australia
When you say entry lift off oversteer, do you mean when you lift off the brakes the car rotates (overseers) as you begin your turn in? I have horrendous issues with the McLaren P1 GTR in this regard... How can I tame it? Brake bias adjustments? I sacrifice so much time feathering the brakes to tone it down even with abs as default. Happens also with the la Ferrari.
As far as I can recall, the '16 Audi R18 in GT Sport is not the Le Mans spec. I believe it's the Fuji spec. The most notable difference is the curvature of the front fenders where the headlights are. The Le Mans car has a more vertical headlight housing, where the Fuji car has a more curved profile.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,249
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
When I say lift off, I mean any situation where you are not on throttle. So braking and coasting + if there's any steering lock applied = oversteer. When braking initially you're still going straight so that's ok, but then as you start to trail brake and start your turn in that's when the problem starts. I haven't driven the P1 GTR since the last update but it wasn't as bad as the 458 Gr.3 from memory. Brake bias can help to an extent (I use -3 with 458), but you really need to tweak suspension and LSD, which can't be done with BOP settings. Adjusting driving style helps too, basically you need to brake in a straight line as much as possible and always keep some throttle to stabilise the rear end.
- 2,647
I'm starting to play again a bit and last time I drove the Nurburgring GP, the final chicane was always a nightmare dice roll for whether I was going to spin or not(I almost always use the McLaren 650GT3).
But now it's much better and I can actually attack it and not hold my breath!
But now it's much better and I can actually attack it and not hold my breath!
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
The bottom line here is the game makes sense. The ffb to physics and what one needs to do. It all makes sense.
A person can argue well car x shouldn’t do this or that, or there’s too much understeer across the board fine...
But any good driver knows what to do, knows how to induce both under and over steer in a car.
I think some folks just constantly use too much steering angle and then complain about understeer.
I dunno, whatever you think about the games balance as it is right now, it’s far better than the ridiculous hit throttle mid corner, slide the rear and magically overrotate and simultaneously grab traction and accelerate that was happening before.
That was exploits, not very realistic imo.
A person can argue well car x shouldn’t do this or that, or there’s too much understeer across the board fine...
But any good driver knows what to do, knows how to induce both under and over steer in a car.
I think some folks just constantly use too much steering angle and then complain about understeer.
I dunno, whatever you think about the games balance as it is right now, it’s far better than the ridiculous hit throttle mid corner, slide the rear and magically overrotate and simultaneously grab traction and accelerate that was happening before.
That was exploits, not very realistic imo.
- 840
- NS, Canada
"The bottom line here is the game makes sense"
Couldn't have said it better, after 94 sports mode races , somehow i managed my 1st win.
Did 30 races or so when game came out, wasn't a fan, did a few over the next year, not many.
Jumped in alot more in the last few weeks working on that Qual. time.
Went from a D/S to C/S and seemly moved up the start position big time.
The Grip thing on the cars is seemly better to control but not what it could be me imo.
That said it's much better than day 1 and for an ole weed smokin' , beer drinkin' , crazy drivin' fool
in the past(irl), getting this gives hope to all those out there who thinks it can't be done. It can.
"The bottom line here is the game makes sense"
Edit: One other thing i did that was huge was to turn off cones about 5 months ago, best thing ever! ( no other aids)
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