Time Trial Discussion

[Chris30]

MT doesn't automatically mean shortshifting, you don't need to shortshift on RBR TT.

Oh, okay. Well thanks for letting me know before starting my session. Well Famine said something about it in my Eiger lap video. And he said I was revving the car too much which was costing me valuable time. I really don't see how I was, I shifted the gears up and down correctly so I should have gotten at least a sub 1'07.000 or even 1'06.000. I'll post again:



Well I did hear the engine make some weird noises when I was braking and lifting off the throttle.

 

[Vule]

Well Famine said something about it in my Eiger lap video. And he said I was revving the car too much which was costing me valuable time.

That applies for that specific car. It's all car related. If you take for example group 4 cars, you rev most of them all the way, but the Veyron, McLaren and I think one other, you shift at half way point of the rev bar (on bumper cam), that's just where the power is, torque and power curves are specific for each car. To save yourself from calculating and searching too much, just watch couple of top tier replays and see where people shift, they figured it out already, just copy that pattern. Happy lapping!

 

[Dan_Tes]

That applies for that specific car. It's all car related. If you take for example group 4 cars, you rev most of them all the way, but the Veyron, McLaren and I think one other, you shift at half way point of the rev bar (on bumper cam), that's just where the power is, torque and power curves are specific for each car. To save yourself from calculating and searching too much, just watch couple of top tier replays and see where people shift, they figured it out already, just copy that pattern. Happy lapping!

This, @Chris30 I recommend watching a top driver replay before you even start, watch where they brake, where they accelerate, when they change down a gear or up a gear and where on the rev counter/bar they shifted; TM in that wild American tank is a good one as almost the entire lap can be done in 4th gear, except the two long straights; watch @jontikis’s excellent lap which shows how using 4th gear exiting most corners gives better traction on exit (and where he shifts into 5th, there’s a little red line on the rev counter but you might not see that if you’re not in cockpit view)

Just getting the basics right from the very beginning can make it a big difference to your time trial experience; using lap guides like @Tidgney’s who usually summarises the crux of the trial early on in his videos (ie short shifting in the Subaru or 4th gear exits at Trial Mountain or off the racing line where possible at RBR in the wet). That can give you the foundation for your week/fortnight of lapping!

Speaking of lapping, today was my first go in the big yank. Is this a real car? Terrifying! But with steery cheat mode firmly on its actually a lot of fun

Looking forward to giving it a few more goes before the time is up!

 

[LSFDRX]

Oh, okay. Well thanks for letting me know before starting my session. Well Famine said something about it in my Eiger lap video. And he said I was revving the car too much which was costing me valuable time. I really don't see how I was, I shifted the gears up and down correctly so I should have gotten at least a sub 1'07.000 or even 1'06.000. I'll post again:



Well I did hear the engine make some weird noises when I was braking and lifting off the throttle.

Every car is different, Chris. You're going to need to adapt to each one in different ways


I spent some time at HSR and haven't found a good pace yet. In the gold range in a few laps, but not even in the running against most of y'all yet.

Went with simple black because that red livery is atrocious! Don't really care for the car much at really, although it does drive better than I thought it would. I don't find that it understeers excessively at all, especially for how fast it is, and I didn't find too much issue seeing out if it, but I really don't like the total lack of gauges inside.

Also did a few laps at RBR and found it to be much more fun than expected, but I'm still way off pace here too and need to put in work. Watched a replay of SuperGT and was surprised to see how much curbs don't effect traction at all. Regardless, the 458 is a treat to drive, and gathering it up while catching lurid drifts in the wet is a good time.

 

[Chris30]

Well, thank you for explaining it better guys, I guess I'll have to adapt and just get a feel of how each car is supposed to act on certain tracks of the game. Dan gave a good detailed piece of information about the shifting and other basic info(MT). I'll keep that in mind for the newer TT's and Trial Mountain. I'll watch the top 20 replays and see what moves they pull in their laps.

 

[Vule]

But with steery cheat mode firmly on its actually a lot of fun

A little bit off topic, but touching the subject of CSA (strong), have you noticed anything different since the 1.49 update? I sometimes turn it on, depends on the car/track/event, but more often than not, I forget to turn it off. For example, I did turn it on tonight because I was doing the weekly challenges, and WTC800 was a full wet race at Fuji. After that, I went to Spa to time trial some Praiano builds and enjoy the VR experience in the sunset, and went couple of laps in the F12 berlinetta, M3 '89 swapped etc... And I thought to myself, hmm, either I became a world class road car driver overnight or these setups are so amazing... And then I remembered I didn't turn off the CSA. Drove couple of laps with it turned off, times were literally the same, I had couple of more corrections to make but noting dramatic. My point being - I didn't even notice it turned on, of course in VR you don't have the blinking red light, and I just didn't feel the artificial corrections on my wheel like I did before, I think that it was improved somehow in the update, like it's less intrusive, or the new physics have something to do with it, it's literally the steery cheat mode like you call it, behaves just like you want it, you don't lose time, and you gain (much) stability and consistency.

 

[Famine]

Well Famine said something about it in my Eiger lap video. And he said I was revving the car too much which was costing me valuable time. I really don't see how I was, I shifted the gears up and down correctly

That car needed short-shifting; the video @Tidgney provided said and showed it to you. It needed shifting at around 6,000rpm, you were letting it go into the red zone.

Here's the two of you one second into your laps:

Notice how he's a full two gears higher than you? That's because, like he said 90 seconds into the video, "this is a short-shifting car". It required shifting up at about 6,000rpm, and you're shifting up at ~7,500rpm which was way too late.

Not every car requires short-shifting and that's not the point of using MT. Short-shifting is a technique designed to make the most of a car where torque is available lower down the rev range or across more of it. The Impreza needed it, but most don't.

Some cars require you to spin them right out before you shift. For others, the point at which the AT shifts (up) is fine (but you still want MT so you can shift down when you want and not when you don't). Some cars like to be slammed down the 'box to take advantage of engine braking, others like to brake in-gear.

The Genesis X Vision from the TT at Monza a few months ago actually required a mix of everything, pretty much shifting through third and fourth up into fifth without any gap at all, running fifth up much higher, and shifting down rapidly on turn-in before shifting back up mid-turn. I'd never have got that gold until I watched @Tidgney doing it; I was about 0.3s off, consistently. First clean lap with the different shift points got me about 0.6s if I recall rightly.


Every car is different. Watch the guides provided to you - that you've commented on how good and useful they are - to see what the right technique is for any given car.

 

[crome]

Well, thank you for explaining it better guys, I guess I'll have to adapt and just get a feel of how each car is supposed to act on certain tracks of the game. Dan gave a good detailed piece of information about the shifting and other basic info(MT). I'll keep that in mind for the newer TT's and Trial Mountain. I'll watch the top 20 replays and see what moves they pull in their laps.

Just in case it wasn't clear from the other guys' explanations, here's a visual one. From your Eiger video:

The red arrow points to where you shifted (at 7K RPM). If you watch any of the top replays for Eiger, you'll notice that they all shift at 6K RPM (green arrow). Watch a replay before you start a new TT, and pay attention to this detail. You don't really need to get a feel for the car to figure this out, just copy what the big boys do. That's what many of us here do and that's also what @Vule said.

Edit: Famine beat me to it, but I'll leave it here for extra impact.
@Famine did you change your font color or are my eyes getting worse? This is quite hard to read in dark mode.

In other news, I'm focussing my efforts on RBR. No improvement today, but a pretty mouth-watering optimal. I need to find out what I did in this S2 with the 42.559. I have never come close to this before or after.

 

[Dan_Tes]

A little bit off topic, but touching the subject of CSA (strong), have you noticed anything different since the 1.49 update? I sometimes turn it on, depends on the car/track/event, but more often than not, I forget to turn it off. For example, I did turn it on tonight because I was doing the weekly challenges, and WTC800 was a full wet race at Fuji. After that, I went to Spa to time trial some Praiano builds and enjoy the VR experience in the sunset, and went couple of laps in the F12 berlinetta, M3 '89 swapped etc... And I thought to myself, hmm, either I became a world class road car driver overnight or these setups are so amazing... And then I remembered I didn't turn off the CSA. Drove couple of laps with it turned off, times were literally the same, I had couple of more corrections to make but noting dramatic. My point being - I didn't even notice it turned on, of course in VR you don't have the blinking red light, and I just didn't feel the artificial corrections on my wheel like I did before, I think that it was improved somehow in the update, like it's less intrusive, or the new physics have something to do with it, it's literally the steery cheat mode like you call it, behaves just like you want it, you don't lose time, and you gain (much) stability and consistency.

It's too early to tell as I've only done a couple of laps in the dry, I've got my wheel settings cranked up since the update and with the increased strength of feedback to me it's still there. But I never feel like I'm fighting it, it feels like artificial weight that I press against which is a little unusual but natural feeling at the same time. It's hard to explain. I think in a way it filters out a lot of the control tuning that is used for pad players to get consistent counter-steering corrections and therefore makes counter steering corrections feel more natural to wheel users. I'm definitely still countersteering but it feels more intuitive even though I can 'feel' the CSA doing something.

Hard to explain, but I like it. If I have time I'll always try and do a trial with it off but at the moment I just don't have time to learn the limits in these cars and CSA strong helps me stay more consistent and learn the whole track quicker with these slightly wild road cars.

 

[Vule]

I need to find out what I did in this S2 with the 42.559.

I'll take a wild guess - you nailed the exit of turn 3 (or 4, whatever you want to call it, the one before the two left handers).

For me that was the crucial part in going to the 36s, following some top ghosts, and later on my own 37.087 ghost, it was literally 2-3 tenths worth, and probably the hardest one to get just right, since you are cutting through the slippery racing line while accelerating.

But I never feel like I'm fighting it, it feels like artificial weight that I press against which is a little unusual but natural feeling at the same time.

Exactly this! Could't have explained better! But as I recall, it wasn't like that before the update, I was getting the constant "cuts" and I felt the thing doing its job all the time...

When you have the time - do a test, BAC Mono, stock, try it with and without CSA(s), it's actually in the weekly challenges as a special event. For me personally, completely undrivable car with all the assists off, it's like it has something broken in the suspension or somewhere, spinning if you even try to touch the fast pedal, but with CSA, it's such a joy to drive, comfy and pleasant, with just a right amount of countersteering needed, but I had 0 spins or critical situations in the Brands Hatch race.

 

[330_D]

A little bit off topic, but touching the subject of CSA (strong), have you noticed anything different since the 1.49 update? I sometimes turn it on, depends on the car/track/event, but more often than not, I forget to turn it off. For example, I did turn it on tonight because I was doing the weekly challenges, and WTC800 was a full wet race at Fuji. After that, I went to Spa to time trial some Praiano builds and enjoy the VR experience in the sunset, and went couple of laps in the F12 berlinetta, M3 '89 swapped etc... And I thought to myself, hmm, either I became a world class road car driver overnight or these setups are so amazing... And then I remembered I didn't turn off the CSA. Drove couple of laps with it turned off, times were literally the same, I had couple of more corrections to make but noting dramatic. My point being - I didn't even notice it turned on, of course in VR you don't have the blinking red light, and I just didn't feel the artificial corrections on my wheel like I did before, I think that it was improved somehow in the update, like it's less intrusive, or the new physics have something to do with it, it's literally the steery cheat mode like you call it, behaves just like you want it, you don't lose time, and you gain (much) stability and consistency.

I've been using it on and off for a long time as well and I've always had the opinion that it doesn't do anything but make the slide feel more like an actual car. I think it's great in many cars. Might as well use every available aid if it buys time. The fastest cars in the world rely on them. Why not a fake car on the Internet?

 

[crome]

A little bit off topic, but touching the subject of CSA (strong), have you noticed anything different since the 1.49 update? I sometimes turn it on, depends on the car/track/event, but more often than not, I forget to turn it off. For example, I did turn it on tonight because I was doing the weekly challenges, and WTC800 was a full wet race at Fuji. After that, I went to Spa to time trial some Praiano builds and enjoy the VR experience in the sunset, and went couple of laps in the F12 berlinetta, M3 '89 swapped etc... And I thought to myself, hmm, either I became a world class road car driver overnight or these setups are so amazing... And then I remembered I didn't turn off the CSA. Drove couple of laps with it turned off, times were literally the same, I had couple of more corrections to make but noting dramatic. My point being - I didn't even notice it turned on, of course in VR you don't have the blinking red light, and I just didn't feel the artificial corrections on my wheel like I did before, I think that it was improved somehow in the update, like it's less intrusive, or the new physics have something to do with it, it's literally the steery cheat mode like you call it, behaves just like you want it, you don't lose time, and you gain (much) stability and consistency.

To be honest I haven't turned it off for months now. To me it has always felt unintrusive. It helps tremendously in some cars, and doesn't get in the way in others. However, given that I am on track for two GTP top 10 placements in a row, which was previously unthinkable, you might have a point that CSA indeed got buffed ...

 

[Vule]

I think it's great in many cars.

Yeah, some cars really need it, in some cars it's not really much of a difference. But it can definitely ruin the "pure" experience in some specific cars, for example, I had the Carrera 904 set up for the Porsche event on Kyoto, 599pp, an amazing orgasmic experience with the controlled sliding through those fast corners, you literally cannot overdo it, you just throw it in the corner and let it slide naturally, floor the throttle and off you go, flying past all the AI cars, I was getting goosebumps while driving it in VR. CSA would for sure ruin that behaviour, you wouldn't neccesarily be slower with it turned on, but the behaviour would be so much different and "robotic" if I may call it that.

 

[Metalgear9493]

Weak ABS, 9/10 in-game feedback settings.

Ridiculously happy with the lap, maybe the final corner could have been executed better, but that comes with a huge risk of invalidating it.

Glad somebody finally bridged the insane gap between Jeddah and P2!

 

[ZevZoq]

Thanks to McCabe's replay of his ridiculous lap (which knocked me out of gold over night) I realized I was trying to carry way too much speed through the esses before the tunnel. Still took me a bunch of laps to take T1 and the final turn anything like he did but in the end I got what I think should be enough...

 

[skydragon49]

Edit: nevermind (I was talking to a wall anyways)

 

[TheNormsk]

Had a new session at TM. Got myself into gold, which is nice. Also my position on the leaderboard is not looking so lonely anymore 😉

I felt that I could get into the 1:53.x, but I kept on forgetting that there was a lot of car to my right and I kept on hitting either the inside of the tunnel or a wall 🤦‍♂️on hot laps. After doing that several times, I figured it was time for a break. Anyway, I think my gold is probably safe now that Jedda is at the top of the board, and thanks to @Metalgear9493 for his replay, which I chased.

 

[Carlos Fandango]

Hey all - grabbed a couple of hours this evening and went to HSR for my one and only session. Uninspiring car and track.

Reasonable and safe time in place, headed back to RBR with a new livery and wheels on my 458. From my last session here, I was looking for 2 tenths and found just over that to duck under 1:38 (wet tires, ABS default, no TCS or CSA). Have never enjoyed this track until this combination. Calling it quits here and will move onto the Honda event at Spa next.

 

[Gorefast]

A little bit off topic, but touching the subject of CSA (strong), have you noticed anything different since the 1.49 update? I sometimes turn it on, depends on the car/track/event, but more often than not, I forget to turn it off. For example, I did turn it on tonight because I was doing the weekly challenges, and WTC800 was a full wet race at Fuji. After that, I went to Spa to time trial some Praiano builds and enjoy the VR experience in the sunset, and went couple of laps in the F12 berlinetta, M3 '89 swapped etc... And I thought to myself, hmm, either I became a world class road car driver overnight or these setups are so amazing... And then I remembered I didn't turn off the CSA. Drove couple of laps with it turned off, times were literally the same, I had couple of more corrections to make but noting dramatic. My point being - I didn't even notice it turned on, of course in VR you don't have the blinking red light, and I just didn't feel the artificial corrections on my wheel like I did before, I think that it was improved somehow in the update, like it's less intrusive, or the new physics have something to do with it, it's literally the steery cheat mode like you call it, behaves just like you want it, you don't lose time, and you gain (much) stability and consistency.

Or you became a world class road car driver overnight.

 

[Uday9479]

A little bit off topic, but touching the subject of CSA (strong), have you noticed anything different since the 1.49 update? I sometimes turn it on, depends on the car/track/event, but more often than not, I forget to turn it off. For example, I did turn it on tonight because I was doing the weekly challenges, and WTC800 was a full wet race at Fuji. After that, I went to Spa to time trial some Praiano builds and enjoy the VR experience in the sunset, and went couple of laps in the F12 berlinetta, M3 '89 swapped etc... And I thought to myself, hmm, either I became a world class road car driver overnight or these setups are so amazing... And then I remembered I didn't turn off the CSA. Drove couple of laps with it turned off, times were literally the same, I had couple of more corrections to make but noting dramatic. My point being - I didn't even notice it turned on, of course in VR you don't have the blinking red light, and I just didn't feel the artificial corrections on my wheel like I did before, I think that it was improved somehow in the update, like it's less intrusive, or the new physics have something to do with it, it's literally the steery cheat mode like you call it, behaves just like you want it, you don't lose time, and you gain (much) stability and consistency.

I feel the CSA is more helpful or a good assist to have when compared to the ASM. The ASM makes the car handling worse.

CSA in Weak settings also helps. It all depends on the track & car combo. Strong is quite helpful in tricky turns & keeps the car stable on exits but it does make the car a little slower. I can easily make out that without the CSA, the car feels less stiff & easily maneuverable. Opting for CSA or not is an individualistic approach & option to take. Since I'm a less confident driver, I more often than not use CSA to aid my driving style.

 

[Dan_Tes]

When you have the time - do a test, BAC Mono, stock, try it with and without CSA(s), it's actually in the weekly challenges as a special event. For me personally, completely undrivable car with all the assists off, it's like it has something broken in the suspension or somewhere, spinning if you even try to touch the fast pedal, but with CSA, it's such a joy to drive, comfy and pleasant, with just a right amount of countersteering needed, but I had 0 spins or critical situations in the Brands Hatch race.

Funnily enough that’s exactly what I did just before bed last night, I did a fun race in the KTM X-Bow which is an absolute dream all assists off and then thought I’ll just hop in the BAC Mono for that weekly race, slapped some sports soft tyres on it and then immediately sent myself into the shadow realm T1 at Brands Hatch. I didn’t even try CSA at that point just turned the console off and went to bed, I’d seen enough 😂

I wonder if that combo would add credence to my theory that it’s related to pad countersteer mechanics; if I have time I might try that combo with a pad and CSA off and see if it’s actually controllable unlike with the wheel where like you say, just instant unrecoverable oversteer.

On the whole the new physics are absolutely fantastic though, there are so many things that are better now it’s a DREAM in a lot of cars and tracks. Thank you PD for putting so much effort into making improvements 🤝🏼

 

[Jeje6410]

New test today in High Speed Ring and improve my time at 1'01'273 with optimal time at 1'01'258

 

[seadog777]

Wow, I just knocked off about 5 seconds from my PB at RBR by switching from the Porsche on IMs to the Ferrari on wets after following advice here. All within a few laps and only one spinner!
Was hoping it would be enough for silver but still have nearly 4 seconds to find to get there.
Still, huge gain just by changing cars!

 

[Barareklam]

Let me enjoy moment while it lasts, while Djolliea is on other TTs 😁 I know it's like 11 days left and it won't last...

 

[half_sourly]

Yesterday I did enough at HSR to get a safe gold, puked a little in my mouth and shan't be going back to it.

This morning straight back to RBR for proper driving and it turned out to be one of those days where the practice sessions from the past week all paid off; improved from 1:37.253 to 1:37.096 in a few laps and dropped below 1:37 shortly after. Well chuffed and there is a little room for improvement should I put a miracle lap together.

 

[Vule]

then thought I’ll just hop in the BAC Mono for that weekly race, slapped some sports soft tyres on it and then immediately sent myself into the shadow realm T1 at Brands Hatch

Yup Give it a shot on the wheel with the CSA, massive difference.

 

[Chris30]

Let's roll boys, time for some hot-lapping this morning at TM Reverse, then off to HSR.

 

[CommanderBond]

Ah yes, the 917 Living Legend of Understeer, nice.

View attachment 1379239

What an absolutely terrible driving experience, I hate every single characteristic of this car. Never mind the time, I just hooked it up, barely, but I won't be returning here again

Show off

 

[Lomic]

Wow, I just knocked off about 5 seconds from my PB at RBR by switching from the Porsche on IMs to the Ferrari on wets after following advice here. All within a few laps and only one spinner!
Was hoping it would be enough for silver but still have nearly 4 seconds to find to get there.
Still, huge gain just by changing cars!

Go seadog! Wet is your thing 😁

 

[CommanderBond]

Hit a 1:03.6xx yesterday. Will have to go back and look at some videos because I figured out I'm losing time at the left hander just before the tunnel.

So close to silver. will try again this weekend.